Disney Classics Screenshot Comparisons

[Freddy2]

Hello everyone!

Being interested mainly in the Picture Quality of Disney Classics on Blu-ray, I'm a big fan of Screenshot Comparisons between the new BD-releases and any possible older versions available, be it on DVD, LD or VHS.

The first big comparisons I saw here are from our well known member Lnds500!... He has made a very comprehensive one of "The Aristocats" and a smaller one of "101 Dalmatians". Any others that I missed?... You're invited to post those again over here, if you want to.

Other comparisons of Disney Classics are very welcome too of course. "The Rescuers", "The Rescuers Down Under" and "Cinderella" come to mind, to begin with.


To start this thread, I decided to make a comparison for "Cinderella" between my old VHS from 1997 and the current 2012 BD. I can tell you up front, the result is shocking, seeing that in many cases the "ancient" VHS shows more detail, more contrast and more natural colors than the BD. As a fan, considering Cinderella as one of Disney's finest treasures, it really breaks my heart seeing this:

[Show spoiler]

(Warning: this is a BIG picture (2 MB)!...)

Other similar comparisons were made before, between the LD from 1997 and the DVD from 2005 which, I'm afraid, has the exact same, bad restoration, including all the errors, as our "new" BD:

CINDERELLA DVD - digital restoration gone too far?
How Cinderella's 2005 Release was Restored Very Wrong

I'm interested in all of your thoughts of course, and... Disney's thoughts if possible!...

Freddy

[Freddy2]

Now the second Screenshot Comparison has been added, I will make this the Contents post, ordered alphabetically:

101 Dalmatians: DVD 2008 (Platinum) vs. BD 2012
Aladdin: DVD 2004 (Special Edition) vs. BD 2013
Beauty and the Beast: LD 1993 vs. VHS 1993 vs. BD 2010 (Diamond) vs. 3D-BD 2010
Cinderella: VHS 1997 vs. BD 2012 (Diamond)
Hercules: DVD 2000 (Gold) vs. HDTV
Mulan: DVD 2004 (Special Edition) vs. BD 2013
Oliver and Company: DVD 2009 vs. BD 2013
Peter Pan: DVD 2003 (Special Edition) vs. DVD 2007 (Platinum) vs. BD 2012
Pinocchio: IB Technicolor 35mm Film Print 1960's vs. BD 2009
Pocahontas: DVD 2000 (Gold) vs. HDTV vs. BD 2012
Robin Hood: DVD 2000 (Gold) vs. DVD 2006 vs. BD 2013
Snow White: DVD 2001 (Platinum) vs. BD 2012 (Diamond)
The Aristocats: DVD 2000 (Gold) vs. DVD 2008 (Special Edition) vs. HDTV vs. BD 2012 vs. BD Trailer
The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh (1977): DVD 2002 vs. BD Trailer vs. BD 2013
The Rescuers Down Under: DVD 2000 (Gold) vs. BD 2012 vs. BD "Waking Sleeping Beauty" (CAPS)
The Sword in the Stone: DVD 2008 vs. iTunes vs. BD 2013

More to come!...

[Freddy2]

By now, seeing all these Screenshot Comparisons, reading many reviews, not always in agreement with "our" observations over here... and hearing people making comments about the latest releases, I decided to add a PQ Rating to this discussion... against better judgment, as I know many people will disagree...

but on a scale of 0 (worthless) to 10 (perfect), ordered chronologically as they came to Blu-ray, and based on everything I could find, including of course my own viewings, these are the results of Disney's Blu-ray restorations:



Have fun!

[Lnds500]

Just finished "studying" those. Great comparison! it's a film which has been discussed extensively yet you managed to put more info on the table.

The restoration is awful!!! Lines are removed, the stairs are missing and the carriage green shadow??? digital work leftover. atrocious.

[yumny]

Oh god, is this from the actual restoration or from the HD promos? I'm starting to worry.
Guess I should hold on to the VHS (who am I kidding I never throw out nostalgic stuff) for a little while longer.

This frustrates me beyond a reasonable point of frustration about such a little subject

EDIT: Ok so I read it over and it's from the actual BD, wtf Disney wtf, oooh this is so going to give me a headache of pure frustration.

[Ernest Rister]

Was the VHS you're using sourced from the old YCM labs restoration from 1987 or so? YCM's restorations were criticized for being too dark and over-amplifying colors, especially with the 1990 Fantasia release and the 1987 Snow White 50th anniversary release. YCM was trying hide all the cel dust and cel scrawl in some of the older films by making the image very dark. Now, everyone thinks that's how the films looked decades ago, when the truth is different.

Of course, the modern digital restorations are different, also. I'm reminded of what Ollie Johnston said after seeing the 1993 digital restoration of Snow White. "Nice colors. Not the colors we used, but nice colors."

In other words, I tend to not get too upset about differences from VHS to laser or DVD or Blu for Walt-era films. None of them look like they did in theatrical release anyway -- Disney knows the titles are typically watched in living rooms with all the lights on, so the contrast can sometimes be higher versus the original theatrical presentations. They're also trying to compete with modern films, so the colors can be a bit -- what's the right word - surreal sometimes. Eventually it all comes down to preference (and maybe playing with your TV settings a bit).

[Lnds500]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Was the VHS you're using sourced from the old YCM labs restoration from 1987 or so? They were criticized for being too dark and over-amplifying colors, especially with the 1990 Fantasia release and the 1987 Snow White 50th anniversary release. OF course, the modern releases are different, also. I'm reminded of what Ollie Johnston said after seeing the 1993 digital restoration of Snow White. "Nice colors. Not the colors we used, but nice colors."

In other words, I tend to not get too upset about differences from VHS to laser or DVD or Blu for Walt-era films. None of them look like they did in theatrical release anyway, so eventually it all comes down to preference.

To tell you the truth I'm not overly fused about colour changes. I know that a perfect reproduction of the original colours is extremely difficult to be achieved right now. But the loss of detail and the butchery this film has been put through.. That's appalling.


Freddy, if this is to become an "ultimate restoration thread", I think you must put other restoration comparisons of Cinderella on the first post (link will do I guess). I've seen 2 on DVDizzy, both of which are excellent.

[yumny]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

In other words, I tend to not get too upset about differences from VHS to laser or DVD or Blu for Walt-era films. None of them look like they did in theatrical release anyway -- Disney knows the titles are typically watched in living rooms with all the lights on, so the contrast can sometimes be higher versus the original theatrical presentations. They're also trying to compete with modern films, so the colors can be a bit -- what's the right word - surreal sometimes. Eventually it all comes down to preference (and maybe playing with your TV settings a bit).

Thank you, that's comforting.
The thing is, it's not really the coloring that bothers me (as long as they don't make Cinderella blue and blonde like in the DP merchandise) but the detail issue.

[Freddy2]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Was the VHS you're using sourced from the old YCM labs restoration from 1987 or so? YCM's restorations were criticized for being too dark and over-amplifying colors, especially with the 1990 Fantasia release and the 1987 Snow White 50th anniversary release. YCM was trying hide all the cel dust and cel scrawl in some of the older films by making the image very dark. Now, everyone thinks that's how the films looked decades ago, when the truth is different.

The VHS is from 1997 and could very well be from that era, though it says: "New - Digitally Remastered", so...
But as others already pointed out, the problem is not that the image is brighter now, the problem is the way they achieved that: by increasing the Brightness through Computer Filters. I can hardly imagine an actual person having been involved in the process, as those Computer Filters made such a mess of things:

- Brightness went up too far, giving it a fog like appearance sometimes;
- Contrast was severely effected by this and went down quite a bit;
- yes, detail in the background is more clear now, but detail in the characters was lost; guess what's more important;
- balance between background and characters is lost; look for example at Cinderella looking back at her slipper: the VHS is darker yes, but both background and Cinderella are of similar brightness, whereas on the BD it looks like there was a spotlight fixed on Cinderella;
- and finally, a lot of colors are simply wrong: take for example the Blue and Green horses; I guess no one will believe that's how Disney meant it to be.

Originally Posted by Lnds500

Freddy, if this is to become an "ultimate restoration thread", I think you must put other restoration comparisons of Cinderella on the first post (link will do I guess). I've seen 2 on DVDizzy, both of which are excellent.

Thanks, I added both links!

[PaysBart]

Thanks for the comparisons!
I do prefer the sharp BD version on my screen. Sometimes something falls away, but the movie is moving and are not still images.
But I do agree they've gone too far with the dress: the creases lines should have been preserved. Now it looks like one big blue dress without details...

[kdo]

Originally Posted by wasim h

Peter Pan is going to be released on Blu-ray later this year and its obvious that Disney is going to use the same Platinum Edition Master which was so blurry and out of focus beside the annoying colors compared to the 2003 Special Edition which in my opinion was wonderful

[Show spoiler]----------- 2007 Platinum Edition ----------------------- 2003 Special Edition

http://imageshack.us/a/img809/8007/1newp.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img14/8049/1old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img856/4079/2newb.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img266/5062/2old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img193/273/3newf.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img832/8625/3old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img841/736/4neww.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img546/4526/4old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img803/9112/5newf.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img27/1765/5old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img209/4363/6new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img69/6949/6old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img59/1834/7new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img826/8192/7olde.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img515/1016/8new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img525/8624/8old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img39/4115/9newc.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img685/3604/9old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img829/6325/10newv.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img62/9387/10old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img705/3026/11new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img689/3687/11old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img253/3257/13new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img534/9325/12old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img266/1424/14new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img254/8898/14old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img840/9703/15new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img443/6360/15old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img822/5927/16new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img9/9254/16old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img534/6384/17new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img145/5271/17old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img213/7631/18new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img191/5857/18old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img580/2991/19new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img528/8/19old.jpg

Peter Pan really needs a new restoration for this new Bluray

Originally Posted by Lnds500

I have updated wasim h's comparison with screen-shots from the European Blu-ray release of Peter Pan (DVD screen-shots are wasim h's)

[Show spoiler]14) Peter Pan (1953)

------2003 DVD ----------- 2007 DVD -------- Blu-ray (EU) ------- Blu-ray (US)

Though by no means an animation expert, and while I certainly don't have the technical capacity to either champion or discredit the noticeable differences between some of these DVD and Blu-ray transfers, I'd just like to briefly chime in here...

After having spent the last hour reading over this thread and viewing the screenshot comparisons of these animated Disney classics, I must admit I'm puzzled by some of the drastic variation I'm seeing. For the record, I must state that the only Blu-ray transfer of a Disney animated film I have seen is "Peter Pan," and I thought it looked excellent. At the same time, I've never seen "Peter Pan" on DVD, nor any other Disney animated film for that matter (other than the "Toy Story" films). But based on what I'm seeing in all these cap comparisons, I will admit that I'm kind of on the fence here. Clearly, a lot of the more recent transfers look soft, plain and simple...and to me, they look much less like projected film than some of the earlier DVD releases, which are noticeably sharper. At the same time, in a lot of the shots, I'd be lying if I said I thought the colors look better on the DVD, because they don't...needless to say, this doesn't excuse some of the instances on the newer transfers, where despite stronger and/or corrected colors, it looks like detail has been completely wiped away by digital restoration efforts...

In my opinion, I don't think any of the current releases (at least of what has been shown in the caps...like "Cinderella," "Snow White," "Peter Pan") are ideal, but such is the case for about 99.9% of all films available on home-video . Clearly, it's going to come down to a matter of personal taste and preference. I can see, and sympathize with, arguments from both sides of the equation.

As I seem to find myself saying all too often nowadays on the forum threads...stick with whatever version makes you happiest . This is, after all, home-video...something that we're all enjoying in the private comfort of our own living quarters. No one needs to be impressed except yourself. And if you have a problem with a particular transfer, and feel a previous version is superior, then by all means stay with what you're going to enjoy. Regardless of all of the back and forth discussion and arguing that takes place on these threads, at the end of the day, when you sit down to watch your favorite movies at home, the only one who needs to be pleased with what you're viewing is...you .

[Freddy2]

Hello everyone!

It has been a while...

Originally Posted by kdo

After having spent the last hour reading over this thread and viewing the screenshot comparisons of these animated Disney classics, I must admit I'm puzzled by some of the drastic variation I'm seeing.

As are we... But anyway, welcome and good to know some do take the time to go through all this!

Originally Posted by kdo

Clearly, a lot of the more recent transfers look soft, plain and simple...and to me, they look much less like projected film than some of the earlier DVD releases, which are noticeably sharper.

And why does one buy a Blu-ray if one already has the DVD!?... Because it ought to be the sharper one... by far!

But what I actually came here for this time, is to show you all the clearly buggy encoder that is being used by Disney at the moment...
First there was Home on the Range that, first of all looked weird... but it also had something we called Edge Enhancement. The same "Edge Enhancement" was seen throughout Aladdin. After digging into it a bit further, I now know it isn't Edge Enhancement what we were seeing, those are Ringing Artifacts.
And the problem is, they are still using that buggy encoder, as the latest releases of Atlantis: The Lost Empire and The Emperor's New Groove show the same problem, throughout the entire movies.

To show you this, I made a selection of four shots of these movies, and enlarged it just x2, to make it look on your computer monitor a bit like it would look on your tv:



Disney, please fix these software problems on your systems, as your Classics really do deserve the best!

[gohanrage]

Originally Posted by Freddy2

Hello everyone!

Being interested mainly in the Picture Quality of Disney Classics on Blu-ray, I'm a big fan of Screenshot Comparisons between the new BD-releases and any possible older versions available, be it on DVD, LD or VHS.

The first big comparisons I saw here are from our well known member Lnds500!... He has made a very comprehensive one of "The Aristocats" and a smaller one of "101 Dalmatians". Any others that I missed?... You're invited to post those again over here, if you want to.

Other comparisons of Disney Classics are very welcome too of course. "The Rescuers", "The Rescuers Down Under" and "Cinderella" come to mind, to begin with.


To start this thread, I decided to make a comparison for "Cinderella" between my old VHS from 1997 and the current 2012 BD. I can tell you up front, the result is shocking, seeing that in many cases the "ancient" VHS shows more detail, more contrast and more natural colors than the BD. As a fan, considering Cinderella as one of Disney's finest treasures, it really breaks my heart seeing this:

[Show spoiler]

(Warning: this is a BIG picture (2 MB)!...)

Other similar comparisons were made before, between the LD from 1997 and the DVD from 2005 which, I'm afraid, has the exact same, bad restoration, including all the errors, as our "new" BD:

CINDERELLA DVD - digital restoration gone too far?
How Cinderella's 2005 Release was Restored Very Wrong

I'm interested in all of your thoughts of course, and... Disney's thoughts if possible!...

Freddy

I am incredibly sad because my mother bought all the disney movies on VHS while me and my sister were growing up. We had Original Bambi Original VHS little Mermaid Original VHS Aladdin all the movies we had on VHS when they were first Released.

then she just gives them away to somebody we never see anymore. I just purchased and watched aladdin on DVD and thought I would do a google search for Disney DVD vs Blu-ray. Your Article was the First I clicked.

My Sister has alot of Disney Movies on VHS they are still factory Sealed Since I haven't had any access to the disney movies I've been opening them one by one and watching them. I haven't had any Complaints watching these VHS tapes on the 55" HDTV.

[filmmusic]

Adventures of Mr. Ichabod (Bluray Vs. DVD) 720p

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comp...5922/picture:0
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/85924

Bluray seems zoomed in, in comparison to DVD and not totally degrained as other releases (Jungle Book, Aristocats, Sword in the Stone, Robin Hood, etc.)

[Freddy2]

Thanks for posting these three comparisons, filmmusic!

The restoration looks very good! The zooming is unfortunate though, as it is quite substantial.

[The_Iceflash]

So after reading the thread up to the current point I've come to three conclusions:

1) People are too obsessed with grain. It's gotten to the point where we want it on CAPS films!
2) People only want colors and such to be how they're used to seeing it on VHS/LD. It doesn't matter if it is incorrect and it often is incorrect on the VHS/LD.
2) No one's ever happy with a restoration. Either it's too clean, too much grain, wrong colors, too many artifacts, etc. What's the point? If I were Disney I would give up because no matter what I'd do people wouldn't be happy with it.

[filmmusic]

Originally Posted by The_Iceflash

2) People only want colors and such to be how they're used to seeing it on VHS/LD. It doesn't matter if it is incorrect and it often is incorrect on the VHS/LD.

What about the theater? are they incorrect there too?

Disney is known to "over-restore" its films to the point of making them cheap-looking for this century's kids.
Why no-one complains about Gulliver's Travels (1939) by Thunderbean?
Because it's a PERFECT release. One that Disney would never do unless it comes to its senses!
When we come to the point that a VHS (Cinderella) has MORE DETAIL (???!!!!) than a BLuray (!!!!), you know that THERE IS A VERY SERIOUS PROBLEM THERE!

By the way, for any purist out there, who doesn't like these restorations, there is this very informative thread:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/top...s/topic/15617/

I use it to track down the best versions of disney films (and in most cases it isn't the Bluray, but you already knew that)

[The_Iceflash]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

What about the theater? are they incorrect there too?

Sometimes yes. There are good pristine prints and there are worn out nth generation film prints with over-saturated colors and a multitude of other problems.

Disney is known to "over-restore" its films to the point of making them cheap-looking for this century's kids.

Why no-one complains about Gulliver's Travels (1939) by Thunderbean?

Because it's a PERFECT release. One that Disney would never do unless it comes to its senses!

When we come to the point that a VHS (Cinderella) has MORE DETAIL (???!!!!) than a BLuray (!!!!), you know that THERE IS A VERY SERIOUS PROBLEM THERE!



By the way, for any purist out there, who doesn't like these restorations, there is this very informative thread:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/top...s/topic/15617/



I use it to track down the best versions of disney films (and in most cases it isn't the Bluray, but you already knew that)

So much gross exaggeration and clichéd talking points here I can't take it seriously. You only have a case with Cinderella. In most cases the best versions of Disney isn't the Blu-ray? What a load of crap. There's such a thing as being a purist and there's such a thing as misguidedly taking the anti-restoration mantra to absurd levels. There have even been great Disney restorations that have been crapped on just because. There's obvious agendas behind it.

[filmmusic]

Originally Posted by The_Iceflash

In most cases the best versions of Disney isn't the Blu-ray?

If anyone wants a clean, cheap-looking, altered and oversaturated colors video, yes!
If anyone wants to feel the cinematic experience and see the films as movies (see Gulliver's Travels, the best example of how an animation film should look on Bluray) No!

http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleich...ess=#vergleich

[The_Iceflash]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

If anyone wants a clean, cheap-looking, altered and oversaturated colors video, yes!

If anyone wants to feel the cinematic experience and see the films as movies (see Gulliver's Travels, the best example of how an animation film should look on Bluray) No!



http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleich...ess=#vergleich

Re-read my last post again.