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Old 04-15-2012, 12:34 PM   #19561
Anthony P Anthony P is offline
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Originally Posted by rickah88 View Post
Not quite sure, but I would think that would create quite the hardware overhaul. From a residential POV, external wouldn't be that much of a hassle, but internal drives certainly would be.
not sure what you mean, I can see the opposite a bit more (i.e. a larger disk might mean replicators need new replication lines (if the current ones are not up to the job) but for home, let's face it 4k means a new player no matter what, almost the same way 3D did (only the PS3 was upgradable to support it, and I am not certain it would have the HP to take care of it and even if it did by the time 4k does reach the market my guess it would have been replaced by the PS4)

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Even at the commercial level, the goal is to do more while getting physically smaller.
agree, but would you rather have a 7.5GB/15GB mini-BD at 8cm or the current 25/50 BD at 12cm? if it means getting the movies you want at the quality you want.

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I'd be just fine with BD100's making the rounds before 8" platters make their return!
but the question is can BD100's (be it 3L or 4L) be replicated reliably enough? if it is not an option then being fine with something is immaterial.
 
Old 04-15-2012, 01:27 PM   #19562
Anthony P Anthony P is offline
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The size of current optical discs is so entrenched with consumers, retail, and production lines that I don't want to even contemplate moving to a larger format.
agree, and that is why I thought it worth posting. The idea of a slightly larger disk to increase capacity a lot did not even cross my mind until I made a typo and thought for a second what if the disks where realy 8" instead of 5" so I did simple calcs based on rough area and realized that would probably be the right size compared to BD today (on the other hand let's not forget that before 25GB was standerdized there where BD-R that had different capacity and Panasonic demonstrated a 35GB BD (which triple layer gave 100GB) so my guess even around 7" might work (17-18cm) might work and maybe even less than that

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That, and blu-rays are thinner than previous formats by necessity,
hugh? the datalayer on CDs was at just under 1.2mm the data layer on DVDs was 0.6mm and on BD at 0.1mm but all 3 formats use a 1.2mm thick disks. So I am not sure what you mean by BDs are thinner. The only disks that where a bit thicker were dual disks that had DVD on one side and CD on the other which were around 1.5-1.6mm

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making larger diameter ones might cause strength and stability issues.
agree, that is why I asked has anyone even thought of it armchair scientist is always a lot easier but tan isn't that what you and rickah88 are doing when saying

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Better to just add layers for now, I think.
the issue with layers is simply one of exponential growth, every layer can be bad and so with everyone that is added the potentioal that you will have a bad/rejected disk is a lot more. You can decrease the probability of a bad layer but a 4L or 6L or 8L will be a lot higher than a 2L which is a higher than a 1L.
 
Old 04-15-2012, 03:40 PM   #19563
Doctorossi Doctorossi is offline
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the issue with layers is simply one of exponential growth, every layer can be bad and so with everyone that is added the potentioal that you will have a bad/rejected disk is a lot more.
Wouldn't a "bad" layer generally be the product of mis-stamped pits? If so, wouldn't layers of, say, four times the data capacity also have four times the opportunities to be mis-stamped and thus be just as likely to fail as would four individual layers, each of single capacity?


/ignorance
 
Old 04-15-2012, 04:19 PM   #19564
rickah88 rickah88 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony P View Post
not sure what you mean, I can see the opposite a bit more (i.e. a larger disk might mean replicators need new replication lines (if the current ones are not up to the job) but for home, let's face it 4k means a new player no matter what, almost the same way 3D did (only the PS3 was upgradable to support it, and I am not certain it would have the HP to take care of it and even if it did by the time 4k does reach the market my guess it would have been replaced by the PS4)



agree, but would you rather have a 7.5GB/15GB mini-BD at 8cm or the current 25/50 BD at 12cm? if it means getting the movies you want at the quality you want.


but the question is can BD100's (be it 3L or 4L) be replicated reliably enough? if it is not an option then being fine with something is immaterial.
Who knows, maybe the PS3 would only need a firmware upgrade to play 4k, although I seriously doubt it. Or, as you said, the PS4 might handle 4k playback.
Keep in mind, that now 6yrs into the blu-ray format you've got *roughly* 25-30% penetration? Maybe 40% tops? The vast majority will still claim(sends chills down my spine) that there is no discernable difference between dvd/BD. Obviously we know this to be false, but I'm talking about the everyday Joe that isn't into highend HT.
Now that's just a very basic overlook at the marketplace, and taking that into consideration: of that 25-30%, how many of those would invest in 4k? Maybe half? That could result in a very slow "early adoption" phase, IMO.
Plus there's the "comfort factor" to take into consideration. Most folks are comfortable with their cd's, dvd's, BD's, etc. They think smaller IS better, which is what mainstream technology has been teaching us for the last ~20yrs. So it may not be aesthetically pleasing, example: OCD purists will immediately revolt because now they have to split their media cabinets(weak example, I know, but I guarantee it happens).
Also with the introduction of 4k, you're really starting to glutton the market. In 6-7 years, which is not a long time, we got: blu-ray, blu-ray 3D, BD4k.
That's a heck of a lot of investing to "hang w/ the Jones's".
It's an interesting idea you put forth, but I just don't see it happening. At least not at the consumer level. Perhaps the commercial level where resources are more readily available over a wider margin.
Then again, if we get Avatar 2 on an 8" disc...I will offer you up mad props!

Edit: Hey look at it like this: Star Wars, LotR, and other trilogies could probably fit on the same disc!

Last edited by rickah88; 04-15-2012 at 04:28 PM.
 
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