To DNR or not to DNR - Blu-ray Forum

RockyIII · 09-16-2018, 02:30 PM

One hot topic seems to be that of DNR applied to film restorations. I see many reacting negatively to DNR use. But I'd like to know if there is ever a time when DNR can be a useful tool. Are there any movies restored on bluray/DVD where DNR did actually improve things?

Wendell R. Breland · 09-16-2018, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockyIII

One hot topic seems to be that of DNR applied to film restorations. I see many reacting negatively to DNR use. But I'd like to know if there is ever a time when DNR can be a useful tool. Are there any movies restored on bluray/DVD where DNR did actually improve things?

Unless one is involved in the entire process (from film to disc) how would one know if DNR was used and how much. When DNR is over used it is quite apparent. If really interested I would ask Robert Harris this question.

RockyIII · 09-16-2018, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Unless one is involved in the entire process (from film to disc) how would one know if DNR was used and how much. When DNR is over used it is quite apparent. If really interested I would ask Robert Harris this question.

Any titles known for smart use of DNR?

stonesfan129 · 09-18-2018, 10:51 PM

There is nothing wrong with it if used in the right way. These days I don't see much reason to. Shoot on film if you want the grain. Shoot digitally if you don't. 20 years ago it wasn't quite that simple.

One movie I watched today - Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan has DNR applied. But it isn't overdone like some others such as Terminator 2 (possibly the worst offender I've seen).

RockyIII · 09-19-2018, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

There is nothing wrong with it if used in the right way. These days I don't see much reason to. Shoot on film if you want the grain. Shoot digitally if you don't. 20 years ago it wasn't quite that simple.

One movie I watched today - Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan has DNR applied. But it isn't overdone like some others such as Terminator 2 (possibly the worst offender I've seen).

Any examples of applied DNR that did actually improve things?

stonesfan129 · 07-07-2019, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockyIII

Any examples of applied DNR that did actually improve things?

Define "improve." Terminator 2 4K UHD has DNR applied but I guess it was done to get the wanted outcome with the 3D transfer. I don't know if shooting digitally was an option in 1991. I'm sure if it was, nowhere near the quality you'd get with today's digital cameras like the Arri Alexxa. James Cameron tends to use lots of DNR on his stuff. I think he views film grain as a bad thing and tries to remove it. But like I said, there are many different kinds of DNR that can be used tastefully or abused. I say avoid it if possible but I don't do this stuff for a living so I have no idea how avoiding it entirely would affect the final product. This might be a better question posed to people who do film editing.

oilers73 · 07-07-2019, 02:02 AM

A little goes a long way.

danielrg · 05-03-2022, 05:26 AM

I don't know why there isn't a _sticky_ DNR thread. Or a sticky thread on film restoration techniques and their application.

Digital Noise Reduction (DNR) is a key topic. It comes up ALL THE TIME on hundreds of threads. Many people don't understand it, or why it can be bad. People need to be educated on it.

It's even more imperative now that 4K/UHD discs are becoming a bigger thing, and over-application of DNR still rears it's ugly head regularly.

oddbox83 · 05-03-2022, 12:38 PM

It's not a simple on/off argument, where DNR use is automatically a bad thing. It's a whole scale starting at no DNR at all through to excessive DNR. I bet a lot of praised restorations sit within the first quarter of that scale and most don't even realise it's there.

I also argue it's material-dependant. If you have original film sources in consistent quality, then people need to think carefully before pushing that DNR button at all. If it's old analogue video, then I think a light and selective use of DNR is pretty much essential since that isn't grain, it's noise. But even video material has examples of DNR overuse. Whatever the format, when the DNR itself becomes obvious I believe it's fundamentally failed in it's purpose.

danielrg · 05-04-2022, 04:06 AM

Maybe a sticky thread would just be too controversial and wouldn't be as educational as I was originally thinking. It seems like a topic that is very subjective where that line is.

I've read a lot about it and _think_ I understand okay the lines between it's appropriate use and not, but then I still find people that think otherwise in both directions. I consider myself a moderate.

09-16-2018, 02:30 PM	#1
RockyIII Blu-ray Baron Member since:Feb 2016 Location:Miami, Fl Trading Score:25	To DNR or not to DNR One hot topic seems to be that of DNR applied to film restorations. I see many reacting negatively to DNR use. But I'd like to know if there is ever a time when DNR can be a useful tool. Are there any movies restored on bluray/DVD where DNR did actually improve things?

05-03-2022, 12:38 PM	#9
oddbox83 Blu-ray Knight Member since:Sep 2013 Location:UK	It's not a simple on/off argument, where DNR use is automatically a bad thing. It's a whole scale starting at no DNR at all through to excessive DNR. I bet a lot of praised restorations sit within the first quarter of that scale and most don't even realise it's there. I also argue it's material-dependant. If you have original film sources in consistent quality, then people need to think carefully before pushing that DNR button at all. If it's old analogue video, then I think a light and selective use of DNR is pretty much essential since that isn't grain, it's noise. But even video material has examples of DNR overuse. Whatever the format, when the DNR itself becomes obvious I believe it's fundamentally failed in it's purpose. Last edited by oddbox83; 05-03-2022 at 12:44 PM.

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09-18-2018, 10:51 PM	#4
stonesfan129 Expert Member Member since:Jun 2016 Location:Wisconsin Blu-ray collection:122 DVD collection:10 Trading Score:2	There is nothing wrong with it if used in the right way. These days I don't see much reason to. Shoot on film if you want the grain. Shoot digitally if you don't. 20 years ago it wasn't quite that simple. One movie I watched today - Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan has DNR applied. But it isn't overdone like some others such as Terminator 2 (possibly the worst offender I've seen).

07-07-2019, 02:02 AM	#7
oilers73 Banned Member since:May 2016 Location:Deceased Blu-ray reviews:3	A little goes a long way.

05-03-2022, 05:26 AM	#8
danielrg Active Member Top contributor Member since:Aug 2012 4K collection:132 Blu-ray collection:1266 DVD collection:702 Digital collection:3 Blu-ray reviews:10	I don't know why there isn't a _sticky_ DNR thread. Or a sticky thread on film restoration techniques and their application. Digital Noise Reduction (DNR) is a key topic. It comes up ALL THE TIME on hundreds of threads. Many people don't understand it, or why it can be bad. People need to be educated on it. It's even more imperative now that 4K/UHD discs are becoming a bigger thing, and over-application of DNR still rears it's ugly head regularly.

05-04-2022, 04:06 AM	#10
danielrg Active Member Top contributor Member since:Aug 2012 4K collection:132 Blu-ray collection:1266 DVD collection:702 Digital collection:3 Blu-ray reviews:10	Maybe a sticky thread would just be too controversial and wouldn't be as educational as I was originally thinking. It seems like a topic that is very subjective where that line is. I've read a lot about it and _think_ I understand okay the lines between it's appropriate use and not, but then I still find people that think otherwise in both directions. I consider myself a moderate.

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