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Old 10-05-2019, 02:04 PM   #18041
Steedeel Steedeel is offline
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Just a heads up for 4K fans. The German UHD of Joker is listed on Amazon for March 2020.

Fantastic film I thought.
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Old 10-05-2019, 03:33 PM   #18042
Wendell R. Breland Wendell R. Breland is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alchav21 View Post
Those speeds for AC look good on paper, but in real time I'm sure Wired would beat it for consistent Bandwidth.
Wrong, again!!! For the 2nd or 3rd time I posted a measurement of my Wi-Fi speeds just a few post back (here) but apparently you do not understand the results. The link speed is 390 Mbps, that is 3.9 times faster than your TVís wired connection. The measurement was made 45 feet from the wireless router with three walls in between.
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Old 10-05-2019, 05:26 PM   #18043
The_Donster The_Donster is offline
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Ah, the old wired vs wireless ďdebateĒ
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Old 10-05-2019, 06:24 PM   #18044
Vilya Vilya is offline
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Ah, the old wired vs wireless “debate”
The obstinance of one does not make for a debate. No one and no amount of evidence will ever convince him of anything.

When he is sufficiently ridiculed he will stop, but only for awhile. He will return swearing anew that a wired internet connection will solve all the world's streaming problems.
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Old 10-05-2019, 06:37 PM   #18045
Vilya Vilya is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alchav21 View Post
My days of ripping BD or even 4K's are long gone, so 100Mbps is plenty for now. Those speeds for AC look good on paper, but in real time I'm sure Wired would beat it for consistent Bandwidth.
You have never bought any 4K discs, so how could your "days of ripping" them be "long gone?" You have no 4K discs, no 4K disc player, and I am pretty certain that your computer has never had a 4K optical disc drive. But, by all means, regale us with your vast experience of ripping 4K discs.

Wireless networks provide consistent bandwidth results. Objective testing has proven this time and again. People would not use wireless networks if they were unreliable. Bury this already.

Last edited by Vilya; 10-05-2019 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 10-05-2019, 06:57 PM   #18046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post
Wrong, again!!! For the 2nd or 3rd time I posted a measurement of my Wi-Fi speeds just a few post back (here) but apparently you do not understand the results. The link speed is 390 Mbps, that is 3.9 times faster than your TVís wired connection. The measurement was made 45 feet from the wireless router with three walls in between.
Link speed isn't quite the same as throughput. Granted, I believe throughput is usually half which still gives you ~200 Mbps so double that of fast ethernet.

Problem with wireless isn't just throughput but dropouts. There's also a matter of range, dead spots and interference (e.g. neighbors' wifi in dense, urban settings like apartments). Ethernet, biggest hassle is running the cable. After that, it mostly just works.

Given most of my 4K Blu-rays are UHD66 and even the UHD100 ones are below 100 Mbps once the extra audio tracks are removed, I'd opt for 100 Mbps wired over wireless. Thankfully, my playback devices are gigabit.

Usually not an issue with apps such as Netflix which have buffering. Could still be a problem in certain setups with ISP provided combo modem/wifi router. At my aunt's place, with AT&T modem/router in upstairs bedroom, can't get a good enough signal for SD Netflix in the living room downstairs. It's faster to use LTE on the phone.

Unless one has really poor wifi like my aunt, wireless vs wired has no bearing on quality considering the low bitrates used by online services.
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Old 10-05-2019, 07:47 PM   #18047
Vilya Vilya is offline
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Originally Posted by rui no onna View Post
Unless one has really poor wifi like my aunt, wireless vs wired has no bearing on quality considering the low bitrates used by online services.
Your last sentence states it succinctly.

If I had problems with dropouts, signal interference, range limitations, or signal obstructions, I would not use a wireless network. I don't have such problems and I would not tolerate them if I did. People use wireless networks because they work and they work reliably.

What does happen far more frequently and often lasts for hours, even days, is a complete internet service outage. Wired or wireless can't do shyte about that fact.
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:25 PM   #18048
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilya View Post
If I had problems with dropouts, signal interference, range limitations, or signal obstructions, I would not use a wireless network. I don't have such problems and I would not tolerate them if I did. People use wireless networks because they work and they work reliably.
My wireless network works fine for 99% of use including 50 Mbps 1080p Blu-ray streaming from SMB server while others in the household are simultaneously streaming YouTube, Netflix or Twitch. Obviously, it can easily handle any online streaming service which probably don't even hit 30 Mbps.

File transfers and downloads aren't an issue since those can seamlessly restart/resume when there are dropped packets.

It's really just UHD Blu-ray (via Windows Shares/SMB) that give me the occasional hiccup over wireless. I doubt many people are doing this. The ones that do probably have either a wired network or a well designed wifi network setup/equipment. Reckon choice of software/protocol plays a part as well. Plex does buffering so I expect that's more forgiving of the occasional dropout, too.
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Old 10-05-2019, 11:38 PM   #18049
alchav21 alchav21 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilya View Post
If I had problems with dropouts, signal interference, range limitations, or signal obstructions, I would not use a wireless network. I don't have such problems and I would not tolerate them if I did. People use wireless networks because they work and they work reliably.
Well most people love their Wireless, but I think it's mostly for convenience and the only choice they have. I see with your new UHD TV you chose Wired, because the connection was there but you put it there for a reason. If you have a chance you should try Wireless to see which one you like the most but it has to be over a period of time not just a quick test. Yes I prefer Wired, but there is no need to get all upset you guys could use anything you want. I have just always preferred Wired because of the consistent reliable Bandwidth.
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Old 10-06-2019, 04:05 AM   #18050
The_Donster The_Donster is offline
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I donít think it is that you prefer wired as much as you regurgitate the same argument over and over again that drives everyone insane alchav21
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Old 10-06-2019, 04:11 AM   #18051
The_Donster The_Donster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilya View Post
The obstinance of one does not make for a debate. No one and no amount of evidence will ever convince him of anything.

When he is sufficiently ridiculed he will stop, but only for awhile. He will return swearing anew that a wired internet connection will solve all the world's streaming problems.
Nah, it is a debate. Because it will turn into the same tired discussion weíve had with them over and over again. It has become one of the many staples in this thread
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Old 10-06-2019, 04:19 AM   #18052
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Quote:
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Nah, it is a debate. Because it will turn into the same tired discussion we’ve had with them over and over again. It has become one of the many staples in this thread
There is no "them", it is just the same misinformed person stubbornly parroting the same debunked crap over and over again. Repeating a fallacy is not debating; there is no reasoning involved in it.

If I kept telling everyone that the moon was made of green cheese, would I be debating the composition of the moon or I would I just be an unrelenting fool?

Last edited by Vilya; 10-06-2019 at 05:12 AM.
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Old 10-06-2019, 04:35 AM   #18053
Vilya Vilya is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alchav21 View Post
Well most people love their Wireless, but I think it's mostly for convenience and the only choice they have. I see with your new UHD TV you chose Wired, because the connection was there but you put it there for a reason. If you have a chance you should try Wireless to see which one you like the most but it has to be over a period of time not just a quick test. Yes I prefer Wired, but there is no need to get all upset you guys could use anything you want. I have just always preferred Wired because of the consistent reliable Bandwidth.
People love wireless networks because they work and they work well. Otherwise, they would hate them.

Wireless is convenient, but it is only convenient because it performs just as good as a wired connection for streaming videos. If it did not work as well, if it was not reliable, it would be neither convenient nor popular.

Wired networks are a choice that anyone should be able to make if they saw any real need for one; running ethernet cable is hardly difficult. Wiring speakers in a surround sound setup can take more effort.

I have already tested both wired and wireless networks and I did so for more than a year. There was no difference whatsoever when streaming videos to several devices. I left the ethernet cabling in place and I have elected to keep my TVs connected by ethernet cable because the "work" of running all that wire has been done. It saves me the trouble of typing in my wifi password on the new TV. Yeah, I can be that lazy.

Last edited by Vilya; 10-06-2019 at 05:08 AM.
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Old 10-06-2019, 10:44 AM   #18054
Steedeel Steedeel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilya View Post
There is no "them", it is just the same misinformed person stubbornly parroting the same debunked crap over and over again. Repeating a fallacy is not debating; there is no reasoning involved in it.

If I kept telling everyone that the moon was made of green cheese, would I be debating the composition of the moon or I would I just be an unrelenting fool?
That was obviously a dig at me, Iím used to it!
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Old 10-06-2019, 03:04 PM   #18055
Wendell R. Breland Wendell R. Breland is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rui no onna View Post
Link speed isn't quite the same as throughput.
Searched for real world test and did not find much info. CenturyLink says 210 Mbps - 1 G for AC. One of these days I may do a file transfer speed comparison between HDD to HDD, HDD to HDD over LAN and HDD to HDD over Wi-Fi.

If you looked at the PDF of my LAN you would see most of my stuff is 1000Base-T wired with shielded cable. Couple of reasons for wired, some of it does not have Wi-Fi, the Oppo UDP-203 and Sony UBP-X1000ES are 19" EIA rack mounted therefore can not use the built-in Wi-Fi. The Oppo UDP-203 has a 1000Base-T connection negating the need for AC Wi-Fi. Also, I make all my own cables, except HDMI, have professional grade crimping, striping, testing, soldering tools.
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Old 10-06-2019, 04:43 PM   #18056
The_Donster The_Donster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steedeel View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilya View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Donster View Post
Nah, it is a debate. Because it will turn into the same tired discussion weíve had with them over and over again. It has become one of the many staples in this thread
There is no "them", it is just the same misinformed person stubbornly parroting the same debunked crap over and over again. Repeating a fallacy is not debating; there is no reasoning involved in it.

If I kept telling everyone that the moon was made of green cheese, would I be debating the composition of the moon or I would I just be an unrelenting fool?
That was obviously a dig at me, Iím used to it!
You have to admit Steedeel, alchav21 and you are two sides of the same coin that make bold proclamations that tend to rattle the thread. Although, lately youíve actually been the voice of reason and tried to keep it on track. So I appreciate that and wasnít trying to make a dig at you solely. You arenít the only nutter in the thread now
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Old 10-06-2019, 04:58 PM   #18057
Steedeel Steedeel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Donster View Post
You have to admit Steedeel, alchav21 and you are two sides of the same coin that make bold proclamations that tend to rattle the thread. Although, lately youíve actually been the voice of reason and tried to keep it on track. So I appreciate that and wasnít trying to make a dig at you solely. You arenít the only nutter in the thread now
Thanks Donster! You have warmed my heart!
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Old 10-06-2019, 05:11 PM   #18058
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Old 10-06-2019, 05:21 PM   #18059
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Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post
Searched for real world test and did not find much info. CenturyLink says 210 Mbps - 1 G for AC. One of these days I may do a file transfer speed comparison between HDD to HDD, HDD to HDD over LAN and HDD to HDD over Wi-Fi.
SmallNetBuilder has plenty of router reviews and they do attenuation testing as well.

Here's one of their top ranked models:
https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...owall=&start=2

Copying comics to iPad, I've been pleasantly surprised to get 40 MB/s (320 Mbps) throughput at times. Sadly, at other times I only get 10-15 MB/s (80-120 Mbps). When I'm only getting 80-120 Mbps, there's likely to be too many dropped packets to reliably stream UHD Blu-ray (no buffering). Given interference could easily be coming from neighbors, the microwave, etc, there's not much I can do about it. My router's pretty old though (TP-Link Archer C7 AC1750).

Mind, file transfers are more forgiving of dropped packets than unbuffered video streaming. Copying files, when a packet is dropped, it just gets sent again with you being none the wiser. Unbuffered video streaming, you'll usually notice a glitch in the video or audio. That's why Netflix, YouTube, etc. all buffer.

Quote:
If you looked at the PDF of my LAN you would see most of my stuff is 1000Base-T wired with shielded cable.
PDF download link doesn't work properly on iPad (just goes to a timer loop).
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Old 10-06-2019, 06:57 PM   #18060
Wendell R. Breland Wendell R. Breland is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rui no onna View Post
Mind, file transfers are more forgiving of dropped packets than unbuffered video streaming. Copying files, when a packet is dropped, it just gets sent again with you being none the wiser. Unbuffered video streaming, you'll usually notice a glitch in the video or audio. That's why Netflix, YouTube, etc. all buffer.
Internet video data is delivered in burst and varies in speed therefore you need to buffer the data. Actual packet loss should be minimal.

ATSC and DVB-S is one way which means no packets can be resent. FEC, interleaving, etc. can normally correct errors. See the TSReader screen shot below. That is video data from AMC-21 satellite, transponder 24. The feeds can go for hours on end without a single error. The Mux bit rate runs about 67 Mbps and hits 120 Mbps pretty often.

Sorry about the PDF, must be because I am using the free version. I am a cheapskate at times.

ADD: See if this link works for the PDF here.

[Show spoiler]

Last edited by Wendell R. Breland; 10-06-2019 at 07:09 PM.
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