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Old 09-09-2021, 01:24 PM   #21
JohnnyF JohnnyF is offline
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The decline of CD was also hastened when new cars no longer had stereos with players.

Streaming is fine for casual music or movie experiences but not everyone has access to decent internet. There is a reason why one of the last Blockbuster Videos was in Alaska. If they can’t stream, of course a physical option is going to be used.

Personally, I hate how ephemeral streaming is. Hitchcock made 50 films and you’d be lucky to find five of them streaming at any one time. As much as my collection has overtaken my apartment and my life, I’d still rather own something and be able to revisit it whenever then hope that it will be on a streaming service that I’m paying for.

The pandemic has not helped physical media in the sense that supply chains have been massively disrupted and the few plants still in operation are barely able to keep up. On the plus side for us collectors, it did probably get a few more catalog titles released because companies wanted to put out something.
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Old 09-09-2021, 09:14 PM   #22
unberechenbar unberechenbar is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadRen View Post

CDs however are often outclassed by digital downloads for both convenience and quality. Even so, I occasionally buy CDs especially when they include physical extras like liner notes.
I wouldn't say they are often outclassed. Most of the high-res music at services most people use like Amazon and Apple Music is streaming-only, with downloads only CD-quality at best. Youtube doesn't even offer high-res audio as far as I know.

There are several sites selling hi-res music downloads but I don't think most people would know to look for them or even care. And I would venture to say most of the music that's been released can only be listened to at CD quality, with the high-res treatment only being given to more popular/newer stuff.
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Old 09-10-2021, 07:38 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadRen View Post
Bitrates through streaming are usually about half or less of what you get from a physical Blu-ray or UHD BD. That's a significant quality difference the layman may not care about but the enthusiasts and collectors do. For most movies these formats are the best quality you can get. (if the masters are identical between BD and streaming, that is)
There is also the fact that through streaming you generally don't own a copy of the movie, and the streaming service can take it down whenever rights get transferred or when they feel like it.

CDs however are often outclassed by digital downloads for both convenience and quality. Even so, I occasionally buy CDs especially when they include physical extras like liner notes.
I think the issue with CDs is that now, it's wasteful on top of being inconvenient. Even the people I know that still collect CDs, they rip them and listen to the rips. I don't know anyone that walks over to a CD player, puts a disc in and then listens to it. I'm sure those people are out there and I have nothing against people that do (I do it with movies obviously) but that does seem antiquated to me.

As I type this from my computer (also antiquated to phone users), I can open Foobar and have my entire library of music at my finger tips and in the exact same quality as the CD. I can take those same songs and put them on SD cards or USB drives and have them on virtually any device. Also if I wanted, I could burn them to CD. I even pain painstakingly tracked down high quality front cover art for all of my albums. It's win/win/win across the board to me. Convenience+Control+Quality.

For the mainstream though, it has always been about convenience. The casual crowd has always had the "good enough" attitude when it comes to nearly everything. If they hear a song on the radio, they are happy. They don't need or even understand 16-bit or 24-bit audio. If you forced them to listen and tell you which sounded better, they might actually hear a difference but they aren't enthusiasts and are perfectly fine with the convenience of just hearing it on the radio or streaming it.

Convenience has always won out with mainstream consumers over quality. A Blu-ray might look better than what is on Netflix but if someone can sit on their couch and press a button vs. order or buy a movie in store, wait for it to arrive, find a place in your house to store it, get a player, get up, put the disc in and watch - Netflix is going to win every time. It annoys me that not everyone cares but I guess that's what makes us special.
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Old 09-11-2021, 01:41 AM   #24
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I still buy CDs myself, but I rip them. I hardly ever play the CD itself... Just not convenient and I don't want to scratch them.

I still do buy blu-rays, 4k and vinyl records, however the blu-ray / 4k have slowed down because the quality of the movies haven't been as good as they were 10 years ago IMO.
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Old 09-11-2021, 04:10 AM   #25
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CDs have become highly impractical, so it's not really surprising they are almost all but gone as a format.

We're talking about a disc that holds roughly ~700 MB of data, which is a pretty measly amount of storage. They take up a fair amount of space (granted way less then Vinyl) unless you are putting them in special carrying cases. Reality is most can easily store their entire music library (or at least their favorites) on a smartphone these days. They serve no real utility other then "good feels".


Movies/TV shows are a little different though...

1. Movies (especially in high quality) take up a lot of space. Until we reach Petabytes of cheap storage or compression becomes astoundingly simple and efficient - discs will remain sensible as storage. They are also relatively inexpensive.

The biggest downside of discs is their read speed, but for video playback it's generally fine anyways. I kind of doubt we'll see a transition of media to flash drives or an equivalent, but you never know.


2. License rights are always changing. If you want to watch a particular something it may not be readily available, even on the internet. This is hands down the biggest reason to purchase home media. Sadly a lot of people today errantly believe everything will just be available always, easily, and cheaply. Streaming will eventually become more expensive then cable ever was (sort of is). Possibly more obnoxious too.

The deciding factor in the future will really be the ease of acquiring digital copies, keeping them, and whether additional content (extras) are provided to make them more then glorified rentals.


3. Streaming is far from perfect. It's almost never been my experience to watch a movie at 100% perfect resolution start to finish. Also a lot of people can't stream 4K and won't be able to. 5G in theory is cool, but it has a real distance problem. That limitation my be overcome sometime, but likely only in larger metros. Also Gbps connections still aren't common. And even with all the bandwidth in the world, interruptions will remain a thing.

So while a disc is "archaic" it's also very reliable (usually if made for and cared for well). Tapes and HDDs will remain a storage medium for this very reason. Most don't know that SSDs have a much more finite lifespan of use (~20 years).


Movie collecting really has always been a niche though. Most folks really only bought movies and shows in the day (90s-00s), cause they couldn't rent them or didn't know they could rent them. Or it was more convenient to own then to try and rent a copy as needed.


Blu-ray will die and become wholly irrelevant and obsolete someday, but it is not this day!
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Old 09-13-2021, 12:22 PM   #26
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I can get behind them being impractical and "wasteful." As others have said, it seems like hardly anyone listens to cds the old fashioned way by loading them into a cd player/drive and listening in real time. They were still really popular in the iPod days given how many people could rip them to the player. But that was also before modern advances in streaming and cell phones. There are just too many ways to listen to music now and I'd imagine few would care enough about having wav/flac quality. Even among vinyl listeners I'd imagine many buy them for things like the experience and the packaging.

I'd also imagine the market is shrinking for people who play dvds and blus the old fashioned way. Storage devices hold insane amounts of information these days and streaming is cheap with many options. People on this forum represent a much different picture than the average person. For example, I remember several years going to a Best Buy at opening one morning to buy blu rays for a big pre-Black Friday sale. There was a huge line at the door and I had assumed that others were going for the same reason as me. But I asked around and 100% of the people there were buying a new game console. I felt pretty out of touch and had no idea one was even being released and similarly, no one had a clue what I was talking about and didn't care when I mentioned a big blu ray sale.
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Old 09-13-2021, 12:32 PM   #27
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I have a fairy large collection of over 1,000 (small by comparison to some people here). Having moved recently, I began to question some past choices Iíve made in buying all these disks. I have the space for them but after filling all those boxes I felt a little silly.
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Old 09-13-2021, 09:19 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcx4610 View Post
I think the issue with CDs is that now, it's wasteful on top of being inconvenient. Even the people I know that still collect CDs, they rip them and listen to the rips. I don't know anyone that walks over to a CD player, puts a disc in and then listens to it. I'm sure those people are out there and I have nothing against people that do (I do it with movies obviously) but that does seem antiquated to me.

As I type this from my computer (also antiquated to phone users), I can open Foobar and have my entire library of music at my finger tips and in the exact same quality as the CD. I can take those same songs and put them on SD cards or USB drives and have them on virtually any device. Also if I wanted, I could burn them to CD. I even pain painstakingly tracked down high quality front cover art for all of my albums. It's win/win/win across the board to me. Convenience+Control+Quality.

For the mainstream though, it has always been about convenience. The casual crowd has always had the "good enough" attitude when it comes to nearly everything. If they hear a song on the radio, they are happy. They don't need or even understand 16-bit or 24-bit audio. If you forced them to listen and tell you which sounded better, they might actually hear a difference but they aren't enthusiasts and are perfectly fine with the convenience of just hearing it on the radio or streaming it.

Convenience has always won out with mainstream consumers over quality. A Blu-ray might look better than what is on Netflix but if someone can sit on their couch and press a button vs. order or buy a movie in store, wait for it to arrive, find a place in your house to store it, get a player, get up, put the disc in and watch - Netflix is going to win every time. It annoys me that not everyone cares but I guess that's what makes us special.
I listen to CDs every day. I have one in my house and one in my car. New CDs go in the car for the ride to and from work. As long as I can get a CD player in the car, I will.
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Old 09-13-2021, 09:56 PM   #29
unberechenbar unberechenbar is online now
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I also listen to CDs every day. I prefer popping them into the car rather than playing music through Bluetooth. At home I have a boombox, a PS3, and a Blu-ray player for CDs. I've never really tried to listen to music on my phone.
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Old 09-14-2021, 06:56 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitman Horton View Post
There's something to be said for holding the case in your hands and flipping through the booklet, reading the liner notes. You can't do that with a digital file. It's not JUST about sound quality.
Huh? I can hold a tablet in my hands and flip through a digital booklet. I don't have to worry about bending the booklet or ruining it with fingerprints or coffee stains.
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Old 09-14-2021, 12:19 PM   #31
Hitman Horton Hitman Horton is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mnementh View Post
Huh? I can hold a tablet in my hands and flip through a digital booklet. I don't have to worry about bending the booklet or ruining it with fingerprints or coffee stains.
Two things:

1. I was talking about the file that contains just the music. I've never seen a digital copy that contains liner notes etc.

2. I don't need to worry about bending the booklet or getting a fingerprint on it. Those things happen. It wouldn't bother me.
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Old 09-16-2021, 05:54 AM   #32
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I just wish there were more Super Audio CD, DVD-Audio and Blu-ray music releases. There are some, such as the SACD of Pink Floyd’s Dark Side of the Moon album which has just been re-released, but I wish there were more. The majority of today’s SACD releases are put out by a company called Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab (MoFi), who unfortunately only does stereo SACDs, even of albums previously released in surround form like Dire Straits’ Brothers in Arms which had been released by Warner Music Group in 2005 on DVD-Audio and SACD in commemoration of the album’s 20th anniversary. There are also a few Blu-ray music releases encoded in Dolby TrueHD with Atmos.

Last edited by BijouMan; 09-16-2021 at 06:13 AM.
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Old 09-16-2021, 05:11 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BijouMan View Post
I just wish there were more Super Audio CD, DVD-Audio and Blu-ray music releases. There are some, such as the SACD of Pink Floydís Dark Side of the Moon album which has just been re-released, but I wish there were more. The majority of todayís SACD releases are put out by a company called Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab (MoFi), who unfortunately only does stereo SACDs, even of albums previously released in surround form like Dire Straitsí Brothers in Arms which had been released by Warner Music Group in 2005 on DVD-Audio and SACD in commemoration of the albumís 20th anniversary. There are also a few Blu-ray music releases encoded in Dolby TrueHD with Atmos.
Join the club!

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/

Best source for news about releases of anything surround and reviews. There are consistent releases, just not much in quantity.

You do know about Dutton Vocalion right? Great value though releases are somewhat limited. Often 2 albums per scacd for $15-25. Though the total cost has increased due to recent shipping increases, but still worth checking out.

https://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/products.php?cat=2

But check the reviews at QQ before buying.
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Old 09-16-2021, 05:56 PM   #34
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Actually CD quaity hasn't even been fully replicated by most of the platforms (except for Audiophile platform like Tidal and even still), it is the same as with Films/Video streaming, it is highly compressed across the board. HUGE DIFFERENCE at least with Spotify.

I don't think at all that collectors (film/music) will stop collecting either Blu Ray or CDs. The same was said about Vinyl and now it's back at absolute full force. Who would've thought so?

CDs are of course not as popular as before but I think they will likely never
cease to exist. The test of of time has already been passed through the digital streaming revolution 2011-2017 IMO and here we are in 2021 with amazing deluxe box sets and editions. Ask the 15 year old K-Pop fans if they won' buy




Quote:
Originally Posted by unberechenbar View Post
I wouldn't say they are often outclassed. Most of the high-res music at services most people use like Amazon and Apple Music is streaming-only, with downloads only CD-quality at best. Youtube doesn't even offer high-res audio as far as I know.

There are several sites selling hi-res music downloads but I don't think most people would know to look for them or even care. And I would venture to say most of the music that's been released can only be listened to at CD quality, with the high-res treatment only being given to more popular/newer stuff.
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Old 09-16-2021, 06:22 PM   #35
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Regarding CDs..this is the perspective of an average consumer though. There is a reason why CDs are still being made and sold in the music industry.

Largely, quality and collecting. The data you are speaking about in a CD is still second to none to most music streaming platforms, the audio quality if FAR superior, and I am not talking techy stufff...it is easily identifiable with much better sound, so your argument to a music collector would be almost like saying to a film collector: Why do you buy Blu Rays when "everything" is
on Netflix.

So again, the format has benefits for a niche audience, yes. But it has passed the test of time from the digital revolution of streaming of 2011-2017 and here he are in 2021 for people who still find value in them with regular and beautiful editions still being made too.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastar View Post
CDs have become highly impractical, so it's not really surprising they are almost all but gone as a format.

We're talking about a disc that holds roughly ~700 MB of data, which is a pretty measly amount of storage. They take up a fair amount of space (granted way less then Vinyl) unless you are putting them in special carrying cases. Reality is most can easily store their entire music library (or at least their favorites) on a smartphone these days. They serve no real utility other then "good feels".


Movies/TV shows are a little different though...

1. Movies (especially in high quality) take up a lot of space. Until we reach Petabytes of cheap storage or compression becomes astoundingly simple and efficient - discs will remain sensible as storage. They are also relatively inexpensive.

The biggest downside of discs is their read speed, but for video playback it's generally fine anyways. I kind of doubt we'll see a transition of media to flash drives or an equivalent, but you never know.


2. License rights are always changing. If you want to watch a particular something it may not be readily available, even on the internet. This is hands down the biggest reason to purchase home media. Sadly a lot of people today errantly believe everything will just be available always, easily, and cheaply. Streaming will eventually become more expensive then cable ever was (sort of is). Possibly more obnoxious too.

The deciding factor in the future will really be the ease of acquiring digital copies, keeping them, and whether additional content (extras) are provided to make them more then glorified rentals.


3. Streaming is far from perfect. It's almost never been my experience to watch a movie at 100% perfect resolution start to finish. Also a lot of people can't stream 4K and won't be able to. 5G in theory is cool, but it has a real distance problem. That limitation my be overcome sometime, but likely only in larger metros. Also Gbps connections still aren't common. And even with all the bandwidth in the world, interruptions will remain a thing.

So while a disc is "archaic" it's also very reliable (usually if made for and cared for well). Tapes and HDDs will remain a storage medium for this very reason. Most don't know that SSDs have a much more finite lifespan of use (~20 years).


Movie collecting really has always been a niche though. Most folks really only bought movies and shows in the day (90s-00s), cause they couldn't rent them or didn't know they could rent them. Or it was more convenient to own then to try and rent a copy as needed.


Blu-ray will die and become wholly irrelevant and obsolete someday, but it is not this day!
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Old Yesterday, 04:09 PM   #36
DVD Phreak DVD Phreak is offline
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When streaming video quality approaches Blu-ray, Blu-ray will truly start to become obsolete. The only reason I still buy Blu-rays is that it still offers the best video quality for home viewing. Current streaming bit rate is about 3-5 Mbps, but Blu-ray's bit rate is about 30+ Mbps, yielding much better quality. When the general public start having 100-300Mbps Internet speed, then streaming quality will catch up. I imagine it will take about 5-10 years. Physical discs will continue to be made, but it will be a slow steady decline.
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Old Yesterday, 07:43 PM   #37
PenguinInfinity PenguinInfinity is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVD Phreak View Post
When streaming video quality approaches Blu-ray, Blu-ray will truly start to become obsolete. The only reason I still buy Blu-rays is that it still offers the best video quality for home viewing. Current streaming bit rate is about 3-5 Mbps, but Blu-ray's bit rate is about 30+ Mbps, yielding much better quality. When the general public start having 100-300Mbps Internet speed, then streaming quality will catch up. I imagine it will take about 5-10 years. Physical discs will continue to be made, but it will be a slow steady decline.
It doesn't matter how fast the general public's internet connections are. There is no chance that most streaming providers will drastically increase their bitrates because that would drastically increase their spending. The streaming providers already spends hundreds of millions of dollars on bandwidth. They have no incentive to spend billions just to provide better quality that most of their customers will barely notice.
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Old Yesterday, 09:47 PM   #38
DVD Phreak DVD Phreak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity View Post
It doesn't matter how fast the general public's internet connections are. There is no chance that most streaming providers will drastically increase their bitrates because that would drastically increase their spending. The streaming providers already spends hundreds of millions of dollars on bandwidth. They have no incentive to spend billions just to provide better quality that most of their customers will barely notice.
They may "barely notice" in the short term but over time they will. Look at old YouTube videos, old DVDs, etc. they look like crap now (see video clip below). Everything has to CONSTANTLY improve and will continue to do so. The industry has to keep spending money -- not billions all at once, but incrementally over time to always future-proof themselves. Since they are incremental, these improvements are often "barely" noticeable. But over time the difference they create is night and day.

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Old Yesterday, 10:57 PM   #39
PenguinInfinity PenguinInfinity is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVD Phreak View Post
They may "barely notice" in the short term but over time they will. Look at old YouTube videos, old DVDs, etc. they look like crap now (see video clip below). Everything has to CONSTANTLY improve and will continue to do so. The industry has to keep spending money -- not billions all at once, but incrementally over time to always future-proof themselves. Since they are incremental, these improvements are often "barely" noticeable. But over time the difference they create is night and day.
Resolution is way more noticeable to most people than bitrate. It's also far easier to advertise. Streaming services will likely eventually offer 8K or even 16K because they can advertise those (and charge more for them). But high bitrate 1080p and 4K is drastically more expensive for them to provide with very little benefit.

The streaming services will use more efficient codecs so they can provide better quality without any extra bandwidth but they aren't going to up their spending by a factor of 10 just so they can advertise that they have high bitrates. Netflix actually lowered their bitrates last year but they're subscriber numbers continue to increase. Their customers clearly don't care about high bitrates so it would be ridiculous for them to spend more money then they have to.

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1602743673
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Old Yesterday, 11:02 PM   #40
Shane Rollins Shane Rollins is online now
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The Lorde situation is definitely irritating. While she is factually right, very few people buy physical anymore, itís the fact that there was no consideration for the niche audience thatís a problem. Ironically, physical movies are still selling more copies than vinyl records, even though vinyl records are now more popular than they were from their inception through the 80s. Much like physical music is a niche, physical movies are a niche too. While a dream come true would be for streaming music and movies to collapse like the digital book/Kindle/Nook market did, that seems like a pipe dream at this point. As long as the niche market is supported, things will be fine. They went from pressing literally millions of copies at once to now pressing between a few hundred to in rare cases high hundred thousands to low millions of copies. (Obviously the latter is pretty much Disney-exclusive, since I canít imagine anything non-Disney breaking the million mark.) If streaming were to collapse, which again would be a miracle, I think we would easily find our way back to movies moving a million units.
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