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Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Gaming > Xbox > Xbox Series X


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Old 03-28-2020, 05:43 PM   #381
Mavrick Mavrick is offline
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Old 03-28-2020, 09:44 PM   #382
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Have to hand it to MS if they had games I wanted to play id buy the console day 1, I might wait a year or 2 and buy it then.
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Old 03-29-2020, 12:56 PM   #383
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Can I use it as a chimney?
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Old 03-30-2020, 07:39 PM   #384
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Can I use it as a chimney?
Sure, if there's something burning...
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Old 03-31-2020, 10:28 AM   #385
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Originally Posted by R3P0 View Post
Have to hand it to MS if they had games I wanted to play id buy the console day 1, I might wait a year or 2 and buy it then.
I've got the 1X and the only thing now that is convincing me to get the PS5 is the First Party exclusives; the machine isn't as powerful as the X2, why should i cop out and make the PS5 my go-to machine for 3rd party gaming? Nope. No reason. So i'm quietly awaiting news of what Sony will have for us on Launch Day.
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Old 03-31-2020, 11:36 AM   #386
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The only problem for me is that MS have said there will be no XSX exclusives for at least 2 years after launch, so they already gave me good enough reason not to buy at day one.

I have the One S and my RTX2070 gaming set up to handle Ray Tracing So I'm covered for Xbox exclusives day one already which is why I'll be getting a PS5 first.

Sony will have PS5 exclusives from launch whether any of them will be worth buying is a different story, and some of them like godfall are only console exclusive so still available to PC gamers but at least there will be some games only playable on PS5 compared to Xbox where they will be on last gen and PC too.

I love the design of the XSX and it's truly impressive how they have worked everything in to such a tight little package. The tear down video blows my mind and I will be really surprised if Sony comes up with anything as cleverly designed from a technical standpoint.
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Old 03-31-2020, 04:36 PM   #387
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Old 04-01-2020, 12:20 AM   #388
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Just like YouTubers who have dedicated Sony PlayStation channels, so does colt, but his channel focuses on Xbox’s stuff.

I tune out of what they have to say because their views are clearly outlined.

I’d rather listen to developers talk about comparisons & so far most have said the PS5 is much faster but has less RAW GPU power than Series X.

Also fewer CU’s clocked higher gives you more performance than a higher CU count clocked lower. Soooo, yeahh
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Old 04-01-2020, 10:43 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by Mavrick View Post
The only problem for me is that MS have said there will be no XSX exclusives for at least 2 years after launch, so they already gave me good enough reason not to buy at day one.

I love the design of the XSX and it's truly impressive how they have worked everything in to such a tight little package. The tear down video blows my mind and I will be really surprised if Sony comes up with anything as cleverly designed from a technical standpoint.
Mav, i'm more than happy with the output of microsoft on the 1X; big fan of the Gears franchise, and both Forza games, with Motorsport virtually eliminating me playing the slim offering we had with GT Sport. There is going to need to be an incredible visual difference in what we are offered though at launch for the X2 for me to shell out for it. No probs if it doesn't happen.
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Old 04-01-2020, 01:12 PM   #390
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Originally Posted by TheWildWhelk View Post
I've got the 1X and the only thing now that is convincing me to get the PS5 is the First Party exclusives; the machine isn't as powerful as the X2, why should i cop out and make the PS5 my go-to machine for 3rd party gaming? Nope. No reason. So i'm quietly awaiting news of what Sony will have for us on Launch Day.
Because power isnt everything, interface and performance are what matters, 300mhz is not going to make or break SeriesX and PS5, if the 3rd party games are optimized for SeriesX it becomes the better machine, if they are as i suspect they will be because of developer input and this generation optimized for PS5, it becomes the go to machine.
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Old 04-01-2020, 02:37 PM   #391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3P0 View Post
Because power isnt everything, interface and performance are what matters, 300mhz is not going to make or break SeriesX and PS5, if the 3rd party games are optimized for SeriesX it becomes the better machine, if they are as i suspect they will be because of developer input and this generation optimized for PS5, it becomes the go to machine.
I think the way Sony revealed the specs are misleading tbh. At peak frequencies there's a 300mhz difference between the locked frequency of Series X vs PS5 but how low does the PS5 CPU go is the question. Same for the GPU and so on.

MS locked their frequencies and they're set up to be available whilst Sony is variable and that's why there's such a problem comparing the two consoles performance. Add to that the NVMe the PS5 has and the new design philosophy in making games, you end up in a very weird place.

Series X is the epitome of a raw and powerful system from a hardware perspective when you only consider traditional game design and how games are currently developed from say the PS1 era to current gen.

The way Sony is implying that they can now use the SSD to make games indicates that a raw performance advantage of Series X will only be seen if developers make games for both consoles in a traditional manner. A manner which isn't leveraging the SSD to its full potential.

It's actually something that after seeing both reveals, MS impressed me more as a person in terms of who understands things on a general level by having better specs. However you then look at what Mavrick said. No exclusives for 2 years and he has a PC which gets all the games. What incentive besides plug and play is there?

For me, Sony and MS have set themselves up in a very interesting way and i'm now more looking forwards to see how things unfold this coming gen and see how these opposing philosophies translate to not only the games themselves from 1st party & 3rd party comparisons but also sales. What seemed to matter more to joe public i guess.
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Old 04-01-2020, 10:06 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by NARMAK View Post
I think the way Sony revealed the specs are misleading tbh. At peak frequencies there's a 300mhz difference between the locked frequency of Series X vs PS5 but how low does the PS5 CPU go is the question. Same for the GPU and so on.

MS locked their frequencies and they're set up to be available whilst Sony is variable and that's why there's such a problem comparing the two consoles performance. Add to that the NVMe the PS5 has and the new design philosophy in making games, you end up in a very weird place.

Series X is the epitome of a raw and powerful system from a hardware perspective when you only consider traditional game design and how games are currently developed from say the PS1 era to current gen.

The way Sony is implying that they can now use the SSD to make games indicates that a raw performance advantage of Series X will only be seen if developers make games for both consoles in a traditional manner. A manner which isn't leveraging the SSD to its full potential.

It's actually something that after seeing both reveals, MS impressed me more as a person in terms of who understands things on a general level by having better specs. However you then look at what Mavrick said. No exclusives for 2 years and he has a PC which gets all the games. What incentive besides plug and play is there?

For me, Sony and MS have set themselves up in a very interesting way and i'm now more looking forwards to see how things unfold this coming gen and see how these opposing philosophies translate to not only the games themselves from 1st party & 3rd party comparisons but also sales. What seemed to matter more to joe public i guess.
How are specs misleading that makes no sense. Look at the I9-9900K, when that chip is marketed its marketed as 3.6ghz capping out at 5ghz turbo, PS5 did the exact same thing. Intel could market the 9900K as a 5Ghz chip but they do not, keep in mind ive turned turbo off and my chip runs at 5Ghz across all cores 24/7.

the differences between series X and PS5 are really minimal.

If SeriesX is running SMT its only a 100mhz difference at 3.6Ghz

Ps5 Runs SMT at 3.5 Ghz across 16 threads, Xbox at 3.6 across 16 threads, not a huge difference.

SMT stands for “simultaneous multithreading,” the generic name for the feature you may know as “hyper-threading” on Intel CPUs.

the SeriesX GPU has 56 Compute units for GPU power but only at 1.8 Ghz, Ps5 has 36 but at 2.3 Ghz

The biggest difference and its a huge one is the I/O chain on PS5, the Input Output operations on PS5 are double what the SSD can do for the SeriesX, this tells me theres a lot less latency on the internal architecture of the PS5 then there is on the SeriesX. The SSD will communicate a lot faster with the CPU and GPU to help downloading speeds on the system from the Blu Ray. By all accounts this is PCIE 4.0 fast at damn near 9GB/Sec compressed.

The above means seek times will be instantaneous on the PS5 while the load times of 2GB of data will be between 2.and .3 seconds. This will be roughly 100x faster then the SeriesX load times.

This speed threshold will change virtually every aspect of how games are played on the system. Scenes will be rendered faster because there's reduced duplication of assets. Gamers will no longer be "stuck" by the limitations of a map, meaning in-game worlds can be much, much bigger (imagine TESVI on next-gen). Seek times are absolutely abolished. Games will boot in the blink of an eye.
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Old Yesterday, 12:49 AM   #393
NARMAK NARMAK is offline
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Originally Posted by R3P0 View Post
How are specs misleading that makes no sense. Look at the I9-9900K, when that chip is marketed its marketed as 3.6ghz capping out at 5ghz turbo, PS5 did the exact same thing. Intel could market the 9900K as a 5Ghz chip but they do not, keep in mind ive turned turbo off and my chip runs at 5Ghz across all cores 24/7.

the differences between series X and PS5 are really minimal.

If SeriesX is running SMT its only a 100mhz difference at 3.6Ghz

Ps5 Runs SMT at 3.5 Ghz across 16 threads, Xbox at 3.6 across 16 threads, not a huge difference.

SMT stands for “simultaneous multithreading,” the generic name for the feature you may know as “hyper-threading” on Intel CPUs.

the SeriesX GPU has 56 Compute units for GPU power but only at 1.8 Ghz, Ps5 has 36 but at 2.3 Ghz

The biggest difference and its a huge one is the I/O chain on PS5, the Input Output operations on PS5 are double what the SSD can do for the SeriesX, this tells me theres a lot less latency on the internal architecture of the PS5 then there is on the SeriesX. The SSD will communicate a lot faster with the CPU and GPU to help downloading speeds on the system from the Blu Ray. By all accounts this is PCIE 4.0 fast at damn near 9GB/Sec compressed.

The above means seek times will be instantaneous on the PS5 while the load times of 2GB of data will be between 2.and .3 seconds. This will be roughly 100x faster then the SeriesX load times.

This speed threshold will change virtually every aspect of how games are played on the system. Scenes will be rendered faster because there's reduced duplication of assets. Gamers will no longer be "stuck" by the limitations of a map, meaning in-game worlds can be much, much bigger (imagine TESVI on next-gen). Seek times are absolutely abolished. Games will boot in the blink of an eye.
The specs of the PS5 are "misleading" in the sense that 3.5Ghz CPU isn't a locked speed. It's "Up to" and can drop lower. Same with the GPU clock speeds. Whilst Series X has them locked, the PS5 is variable and "Up to" just like the CPU side of the console.

Your intel example i get but disagree with on the basis that Intel are marketing their 3.6Ghz is the typical operating frequency whereas the 5Ghz turbo is the "Up to" figure. Sony basically presented it in reverse.

Their figures are basically presented at the highest possible frequency speeds PS5 can theoretically manage but under load they can actually also reduce down too. Series X on the other hand is designed to work at up to the maximum locked clock speeds even at full load where PS5 downclocks under those conditions. Hence the raw Series X CPU & GPU power is actually a decent chunk over PS5.

The SSD however as you pointed out is the key potential game changer here. Because Sony are down against MS on the raw specs, i believe a change in game engines and development techniques to leverage the NVMe the PS5 comes with will mean the hardware advantage of the Series X could theoretically be mitigated on exclusives at least but 3rd party games will be interesting to see compared. If they adopt new development techniques to leverage the SSD of the PS5 and help close the CPU & GPU performance gap.

Time will tell.

Hopefully that made a little more sense on what i'm trying to say. Sony clock speeds for both CPU & GPU aren't locked. They're "Up to" speeds shown at maximum clock speeds they could operate at but can also drop lower. MS has locked clock speeds able to run at those speeds 24/7 under maximum load.
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Old Yesterday, 05:11 PM   #394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derb View Post
I’d rather listen to developers talk about comparisons & so far most have said the PS5 is much faster but has less RAW GPU power than Series X.

Also fewer CU’s clocked higher gives you more performance than a higher CU count clocked lower. Soooo, yeahh
I think you need to find Digital Foundry’s latest video. “The more you upclock a gpu without a corresponding increase in bandwidth elsewhere in the system, the less performance you gain”. Also, they provided examples for cu count at lower bandwidth, and displayed that the frame rate was higher on higher cu count than higher bandwidth.
The ps5 will, no doubt, hold its own; but, it really will come down to what developers choose to focus (meaning cpu vs gpu) on. Exclusives will look and play great because there will likely be a strong balance, but the rest...we’ll see.
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Old Yesterday, 05:18 PM   #395
NARMAK NARMAK is offline
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Originally Posted by jayturner514 View Post
I think you need to find Digital Foundry’s latest video. “The more you upclock a gpu without a corresponding increase in bandwidth elsewhere in the system, the less performance you gain”. Also, they provided examples for cu count at lower bandwidth, and displayed that the frame rate was higher on higher cu count than higher bandwidth.
The ps5 will, no doubt, hold its own; but, it really will come down to what developers choose to focus (meaning cpu vs gpu) on. Exclusives will look and play great because there will likely be a strong balance, but the rest...we’ll see.
I do think the current Sony strategy is more like current gen. They released a powerful base PS4. Actually more powerful than Xbox One but because MS bundled in Kinect as mandatory and online checks with no used games, it completely killed them with the $100 price difference between the consoles.

Then when the Pro came along it launched again cheaper than the One X and was arguably just as good in sales for Sony in comparison. Lower price but also down on power.

This next gen coming, to me i wouldn't be surprised to see Sony release this base PS5 and then a Pro model. MS meanwhile seem to be doing things in reverse. The Series X being the One X and that 2nd console being the cheaper alternative. If they somehow release a 3rd "Pro" model too it will be interesting to see. I feel like Sony could theoretically bump up from a 10Tf maximum to maybe a 14/15Tf vPro potentially just after the 2 year period when MS say they're gonna be releasing their Series X exclusives.

I suppose if nothing else, looking at it from a neutral PoV, it's interesting to predict and in due time compare the two approaches they took and what that led to.
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Old Yesterday, 07:11 PM   #396
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Don't know what PS5 phy.sical architecture is going to be but MS's upgrade/downgrade will be easy.

XSX construction is modular. Swap out the XSX motherboard/SoC. Use the same case, same internal components, power supply, etc.

XB1/PS4 was MS's bad strategy + execution. Sony did not have to do much to win the crowd. I felt that Sony was rather mediocre but compared to MS Sony looked fantastic.

Sony still has the favour. IMO Sony is being very conservative when they don't have to be.
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