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Old 12-14-2014, 04:05 PM   #1981
Buffdale Buffdale is offline
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Your list is really impressive! You did a good job!

I allow myself to add two errors:

DVD:


Pivot:

(Willow's sunglasses)
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Old 12-14-2014, 04:06 PM   #1982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveSimonH View Post
The problem is that based on what we are seeing it isn't, "do you want it in 4:3 or 16:9", it's "do you want it in 4:3 or half-assed 16:9".

I have the UK DVDs which are 16:9 in seasons 4-6. This article here shows some of the issues that you see in the R2 DVDs
vs.
Light stand on left, edge of set on right with light in ceiling hole

It's not a matter of being 4:3 "cuz TVs were shaped that way", it was shot that way. So you will often see actors waiting at the edge of frame, lights, edges of sets etc because the shots were framed for 4:3.
You can argue, "well they can carefully crop and tweak framing". True, but based on all the examples posted they don't seem to be capable of doing that.
The funny thing about that photo comparison is I find the empty space and terrible framing way more obvious and irritating than the light - wouldn't have even noticed it if it hadn't been pointed out.
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Old 12-14-2014, 04:10 PM   #1983
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I understand the purists among you. And Joss has said that the show was made for 4:3, "cuz TVs were shaped that way". But they are not shaped that way now, and if the show can be handled by good editors, I would not mind seeing more of the show and utilizing my whole TV screen.
Your comments tend to suggest you don't understand at all, but thats ok.

I do find this mindset that Im seeing more of the show strange. When does it become not part of the show ? When you start to see passers by on the street watching the shot or actors standing waiting to come into frame ? So lets just get every show to stick a camera in a room or open space, zoom out as far as possible and get the actors just to perform in the middle somewhere. Then we can see everything that is going on around. No need to compose shots or frame anything its all there in the camera. So what if we have passers by watching? or the props guys and boom mic showing. Hey its more of the show!!!.

You do realise there is actually a natural edge to the show at some point ? And that is supposed to be partly what framing a shot in the first place is supposed to be about ? Why not get them to CGI in more to the sides so we can get every show ever made 2:35:1 ? Or open up films that are 2:35:1 so everything fits perfectly into a 16:9 ratio.

Last edited by simonynwa; 12-14-2014 at 04:18 PM.
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Old 12-14-2014, 04:30 PM   #1984
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The people who want this in 16:9 obviously don't give a shit what the creators had in mind. So what if there are black boxes on the side of the screen? Should everything ever shot with 4:3 in mind be cropped and formatted because you want an image to cover the entire tv despite it not being framed for that? This is a ridiculous discussion especially when the damn creator/mastermind of the show had said how it is supposed to be. Guess it doesn't matter what he says.
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Old 12-14-2014, 04:33 PM   #1985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Jack View Post
The people who want this in 16:9 obviously don't give a shit what the creators had in mind. So what if there are black boxes on the side of the screen? Should everything ever shot with 4:3 in mind be cropped and formatted because you want an image to cover the entire tv despite it not being framed for that? This is a ridiculous discussion especially when the damn creator/mastermind of the show had said how it is supposed to be. Guess it doesn't matter what he says.
Actually I think most do actually draw the line at cropping strangely enough. They get angry enough to complain about that but can't understand why someone might be equally passionate about not opening up the frame either.
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Old 12-14-2014, 04:46 PM   #1986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iank View Post
Seasons 4-7 have been in widescreen for over 10 years. X Files has been redone, by all accounts with tremendous success.
A Blu-ray of 4-7 especially in 4:3 would be a backward step.
It's not a step backward. If Buffy the Vampire Slayer is presented in 4:3 for the entire series (with one exception) then it's a positive step forward. It will be the first time (for a lot of us) we'll see the show as it was originally intended. If it's remastered with tender loving care it will be a wondrous thing.

I'd hope we won't miss the things, we weren't supposed to see in the first place for one second!
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Old 12-14-2014, 04:58 PM   #1987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simonynwa View Post
Actually I think most do actually draw the line at cropping strangely enough. They get angry enough to complain about that but can't understand why someone might be equally passionate about not opening up the frame either.

To be honest, I can understand this sort of thinking. If something is cropped, it is lost, possibly forever. Back in the dark days of VHS once cropped that information was gone (seemingly forever).

Meanwhile, if more information is given, then it's fairly easy to recrop it. Someone on another forum has done their best to restore Star Wars to the non special edition version and they've done a damn good job of it. In comparison to that, recropping an opened up version back to 4:3 would be easy (assuming every shot is opened).

However this does mean that a fan release becomes the definitive version rather than an official release.

So yeah, I'd rather have 4:3, but if that is not possible, opened up with no cropping is preferable to cropped.
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Old 12-14-2014, 05:22 PM   #1988
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A question I ask myself for some months already. What will happen when/if the standard aspect ratio is 2.39:1?

Oh... Right...


Last edited by Buffdale; 12-14-2014 at 05:35 PM.
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Old 12-14-2014, 06:14 PM   #1989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddkryten View Post
Meanwhile, if more information is given, then it's fairly easy to recrop it.
One day we may see technology advance to the point where we see everything that was filmed and our players can matte custom aspect ratios or download directors visions but it would be a very niche function to have. If you watch some of the featurettes or bloopers on The Next Generation Blu-rays you can see the entire exposed area of the camera negative and it's quite easy to get complete lost as we don't know what we're supposed to be looking without the correct framing!

The problem with Buffy the Vampire Slayer and The X-Files is you can't consistently add equal amounts to the left and right of the frame without reframing, cropping or zooming, so having 2 ratios isn't really possible. If you could and it was just the case of the 4:3 image been cropped from a 16:9 safe zone then, yes, it's perfectly acceptable.

If the original intent is going to be compromised, when there's no really need for it, then they should just stick to the original intent (if we ever get BDs) and do the best they can for TV broadcasts.
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Old 12-14-2014, 06:23 PM   #1990
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I agree with everything you have just said. What I'm talking about is very niche and would require quite a bit of work (although the technology does currently exist to crop and distribute a fan edited version).

But yeah, my preference goes like this.

1: Original aspect ratio!

2: Entire exposed negative, warts and all.

3: Cropped to 16:9 with the creator ps input and well done. Not my preference at all. Some people might swap two and three, but this is my view.

4: Finally my least favourite option. Cropped to 16:9 badly without consulting the original team.
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Old 12-14-2014, 06:48 PM   #1991
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Anyone else here ever play the Buffy games? If so, which one was your favorite? The first one was mine, I didn't even have an Xbox until I found out that they were releasing a Buffy game... lol
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Old 12-14-2014, 06:51 PM   #1992
Maveric-Romeo Maveric-Romeo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iank
TVs are not shaped that way anymore Joss.

Time to move on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Jack View Post
And the award for dumbest comment of the day goes to...
How about we stay adults here and debate? Keep your bullying to the playground...


(Perhaps a moderator here would agree??)
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Old 12-14-2014, 07:08 PM   #1993
Maveric-Romeo Maveric-Romeo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simonynwa View Post
Your comments tend to suggest you don't understand at all, but thats ok.
Believe it or not, but I am capable of understanding somebody's arguments - and still be able to have a different opinion based on all arguments.

Too bad everything seems to be your way or the highway with you.
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Old 12-14-2014, 09:03 PM   #1994
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I certainly hope these types all enjoy their crammed in Blu-rays of seasons 4-7.
I certainly won't be throwing money away on them.
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Old 12-14-2014, 09:11 PM   #1995
Doctor Jack Doctor Jack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maveric-Romeo View Post
How about we stay adults here and debate? Keep your bullying to the playground...


(Perhaps a moderator here would agree??)
Not bullying at all. Expressing my opinion that it was a dumb comment. I don't think you know what bullying is.
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Old 12-14-2014, 10:02 PM   #1996
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People need to really get past the "cropping" argument, because it doesn't apply.

Film is neither 4:3 nor 16:9. EVERYTHING is cropped in one way or another.

When a show (or a movie) is shot, the director has an intended framing that he works with and works to ensure that all the stuff he wants on screen is within that framing and all the stuff he does not is outside that framing.

So... the show is shot with 4:3 in mind, everything is designed around that... which means all the action is in a 4:3 window inside that film... and potentially lots of undesirable stuff is outside that 4:3 window on film.

Some shows were shot dual-protected with an eye towards possible 16:9 presentation down the line. For such shows, I don't mind if they go to 16:9 because it still retains the original vision and was shot to be presented that way whenever it became possible.

For a show like Buffy, that has people (notably Joss Whedon) on record again and again as being clearly shot and only protected for 4:3... nobody should ever want anything but 4:3 if you're a fan of the show.

There is no "opening up" or "cropping" applicable... It's all cropping, just different cropping, to go to a different aspect ratio... and if you do that, you're doing something that wasn't intended, planned for, or desired... so you're going to get bad results and not the original show you claim to be a fan of watching.
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Old 12-14-2014, 10:32 PM   #1997
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I just love the "If you're a fan of the show, you shouldn't want 16:9" argument. You can be a fan of a show and still prefer seeing it another way. Since I love the show in 16:9 more than 4:3, I guess that makes me "not a fan" and I've wasted my time watching this show from the moment it aired on tv. It helping through high school and family problems must also mean nothing since I like it in wide. I'm a fan, not a purist.
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Old 12-14-2014, 10:34 PM   #1998
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Quite. Some people really are full of themselves.
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Old 12-14-2014, 11:49 PM   #1999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbee87 View Post
Anyone else here ever play the Buffy games? If so, which one was your favorite? The first one was mine, I didn't even have an Xbox until I found out that they were releasing a Buffy game... lol
I remember playing the GBC one and Chaos Bleeds on Ps2
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Old 12-15-2014, 12:01 AM   #2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slainery View Post
I remember playing the GBC one and Chaos Bleeds on Ps2
I completely forgot about the GBC one. I only played it a few times. I wish I still had my Xbox Buffy game and Xbox(I don't any game consoles now, not really interested in gaming these days) But I had good reason to get rid of them, I needed the money to buy the last season of Buffy on it's release day... lol
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