Martin (Romero) Second Sight

[BladeRunner2007]

Now at 20.000 dollars.

[Mr. Thomsen]

Originally Posted by Yami

I don't see what's inherently wrong about putting it up for auction - it's not like it's particularly unusual for art or important artefacts of any sort to be put through this process. If anything, it fetching a decent price would (hopefully!) suggest that it is someone with interest in exploiting it commercially rather than letting it rot. Perhaps even a joint bid by different institutions. Pure speculation though.

Plenty of private collectors could not care less about giving the public access.

What people are annoyed about is the risk of the print disappearing again into the hands of someone, who just wants to hoard it. Also there is the somewhat dubious story of the print's provenance.

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by Yami

I don't see what's inherently wrong about putting it up for auction - it's not like it's particularly unusual for art or important artefacts of any sort to be put through this process. If anything, it fetching a decent price would (hopefully!) suggest that it is someone with interest in exploiting it commercially rather than letting it rot. Perhaps even a joint bid by different institutions. Pure speculation though.

It's stolen property, that really should have been donated back to the rights holders or at least a sensible amount of money. I'm not suggesting the person who owns it now had anything to do with the theft, we simply don't know the truth so can't make such accusations, but they've seen $$$$ and are purely motivated by greed now.

How much do you expect the indie labels can spend? SS have already paid Rubinstein for the rights, money for the scan, restoration, extras, etc. Dawn sold well for them but they're still not making a fortune.

I'm gutted it's been bid up to 20,000 already. Total idiots will be bidding. Any fans with sense will be leaving well alone to ensure the right people get it for cheap and piddling on the sellers greedy bonfire. Alas, the fools appear to be winning, giving the seller what they want. I just hope one of these "fools" is a rich fan who will be making scans of it available to the proper people for a sensible sum. Right now though, I wouldn't waste any hope on ever expecting to see it.

Originally Posted by Mr. Thomsen

Plenty of private collectors could not care less about giving the public access.

True, and I take a dim view of those who have rare stuff, and take pleasure out of knowing they can see something no one else can. That to me is anathema to what film should be, it's a form that's shared by many, not the one! On the other hand, plenty of film collectors are fans of film in the truest sense, and are more than happy to make sensible agreements to let rights owner and video labels access material that doesn't exist elsewhere. The rights owners need to show respect here, unless they are just as bad as the former in a way, because somewhere in the middle you've likely got the ones who would be the latter, but have been burned in the past by bigger studios throwing their weight around. This has sent a lot of collectors under the radar, sadly. Which isn't the case for the one with Martin, who's swinging his balls around in public quite brazenly.

[BladeRunner2007]

I hope a rich super fan will win the auction and hand it over to Second Sight for small money, so it can get the proper treatment it deserves: 4K scan and restoration and make it widly available for anyone.

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by BladeRunner2007

I hope a rich super fan will win the auction and hand it over to Second Sight for small money, so it can get the proper treatment it deserves: 4K scan and restoration and make it widly available for anyone.

Just to be clear in regards to what I say above, I wouldn't call such a fan a fool, but a saint. Which I why I put it as "fool" in that bit.

Sadly, I still think a lot of bona fide bids are from proper fools who just aren't realising what they are doing is just making it even less likely to be had by the right people....

[Yami]

I'm on mobile so I won't use the quote function but : I have no idea as to who the rightful owner of the print is. But while it would have been nice of the seller to just donate it, I'm just pointing out that these types of auctions are not unusual. Da Vincis, Picassos, costumes, jewellery, all sorts of rare and important items go up for sale to the highest bidder. And the highest bidder is often a museum and occasionally it's a Saudi Crown Prince who keeps it on his yacht. Its jumping to conclusions to just assume that the winning bidder at the moment is a hoarding private collector and not the Museum of Modern Art or similar institution.

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by Yami

I'm on mobile so I won't use the quote function but : I have no idea as to who the rightful owner of the print is. But while it would have been nice of the seller to just donate it, I'm just pointing out that these types of auctions are not unusual. Da Vincis, Picassos, costumes, jewellery, all sorts of rare and important items go up for sale to the highest bidder. And the highest bidder is often a museum and occasionally it's a Saudi Crown Prince who keeps it on his yacht. Its jumping to conclusions to just assume that the winning bidder at the moment is a hoarding private collector and not the Museum of Modern Art or similar institution.

While technically you may be right, the moving picture and related medias are a bit different, given the way they are designed to be consumed by the masses, not the few.

There's also the issue of rights owners. Whoever holds a film that's in copyright owns only the physical film, and have no rights whatsoever to the content. This is different to lets say a piece of art, where even if the painter is still alive, the whole thing has been legally sold so the owner can do as they wish, legally and morally.

This is a film print that was known to be stolen, and the person who currently holds it who is trying to scour as much cash as they can out of it has zero legal rights to the content. I mean, it's different to when Rubinstein was basically sitting on Martin and Dawn when he was asking too much for the licences. While that was frustrating, he had every right to do so. This seller of the print is a different kettle of fish. So I simply don't like it, it just feels very wrong and clearly many others posting about it here agree with me. Now I have to draw a line somewhere though, I don't think any legal challenge to the current owner would do any good, quite the opposite as it might put off other film holders from coming forward with content. So I'm gonna have to be content with booing and hissing him.

[apollo828]

Obviously, I have no idea how much the bid maxes out at, but $20K really isn't that much for a label, all things considered. Assuming it's not them, I'm sure SS could put in a bid, or even work behind-the-scenes with somebody (Arrow, The George Romero Foundation, AGFA, Criterion, anybody!) to put together enough money to win. They'd have their limits, of course, but I think there's a reasonable chance that the auction will end with SS getting their hands on the print one way or another, even if it's "only" a 4K scan to place on the release.

[Kyle15]

I'm hoping someone swoops in who'll hand it off to Second Sight, or Second Sight dives in themselves. Who even knows at this point! Fingers crossed it doesn't end-up under lock and key again. It goes to show whoever owns it doesn't care and simply sees dollar signs which is a shame.

[oddbox83]

It's charming that people still think an indie label has 20k just sitting around after how much they'll already have dropped on Martin and that they'd get the sales return to justify it and not go belly up in debt, but it's not 2002 at the boom of the DVD era anymore. I hope SS or other appropriate parties really are doing the bidding, but I have strong doubts as per my reasons.

It's more likely to be Rubinstein perhaps if he does have that sort of money (I don't know either way), as he could licence it to multiple territories which would be more likely to recoup the cost of obtaining it. I'm still not totally convinced though.

It's all just chatter though, all we can really do is sit back and hope the right person does get it and we can see it one day. Either that or we won't, and there's nothing we can do about it (apart from not adding fuel to the fire by bidding at this stage, unless you are that rich fan who can keep bidding to ensure you can get it and share it!).

[Kyle15]

Originally Posted by oddbox83

It's charming that people still think an indie label has 20k just sitting around after how much they'll already have dropped on Martin and that they'd get the sales return to justify it and not go belly up in debt, but it's not 2002 at the boom of the DVD era anymore.

I can be even more charming for you if you want.

[drush9999]

If I win the lottery tonight, I'll be the highest bidder and Second Sight can have access to it for nothing.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by apollo828

Obviously, I have no idea how much the bid maxes out at, but $20K really isn't that much for a label, all things considered.

It's a huge amount. The indie labels only sell in the thousands and that would be 500 copies at $40 that they'd make no money on. Factor in all the work of scanning, grading, quality control, disc pressing and so on (plus auction fees), and they'd have to charge much more and then you're stuck with a lot of tat to justify a much higher price tag.

And it looks like it's going well over 20 grand.

[zbinks]

Originally Posted by George A. Romero Foundation

The GARF's statement on MARTIN


Many of our fans, followers, and supporters have reached out to us about the print of MARTIN that is currently for sale. We truly appreciate your concern and diligence, so thank you!


The George A. Romero Foundation (GARF) has reached out to the seller's agent to discuss its acquisition. At this time, it appears that the print will be sold to an individual buyer.


The GARF has also been in contact with those involved with the production of the film to determine exactly what this print may be. This print of MARTIN is a "slop print" - that is, a B&W spliceless duplicate of the workprint used to make corrections in the sound mix. This print was purportedly produced for and exhibited at a theater in New Jersey so that the production company (Braddock Associates) could apply for funding for its completion and eventual distribution.


This print made its way to its current owners through the location scouting process for DAWN OF THE DEAD. Regardless of physical ownership, this print may not be exhibited, as the intellectual property is owned by New Amsterdam Entertainment.


This cut of MARTIN does, however, have intrinsic scholarly value. It is our hope that this print may ultimately be installed within the University of Pittsburgh Library System's (ULS) George A. Romero Archival Collection.

The print needs to be properly transferred so that it can be viewed without the risk of its destruction. The celluloid itself then needs to be meticulously preserved. The ULS has both the capability and the desire to do so.


We sincerely hope that the buyer will consider donating the film to the collection so that it may be added to the enormous body of work already there.


That's all the information we can share at this time. As always, please stay tuned for new developments and of course -- Stay Scared!

https://georgearomerofoundation.org/...cyLtV2UpwGc6Mw

[ravenus]

^Hopefully some good comes of this. Perhaps the buyer could assent to at least lend the print for an archival scan to be made, even if they don't care to just donate the material.

[drush9999]

Originally Posted by drush9999

If I win the lottery tonight, I'll be the highest bidder and Second Sight can have access to it for nothing.

Didn't win diddly

[CompleteCount]

Originally Posted by drush9999

Didn't win diddly

I'd offer to "put my ass out to work" to generate funds for a collective bid, but I fear I know where such efforts would lead...

adder.jpg

[drush9999]

Originally Posted by CompleteCount

I'd offer to "put my ass out to work" to generate funds for a collective bit, but I fear I know where such efforts would lead...

Attachment 278045

I have a cunning plan

[Mr. Thomsen]

Originally Posted by zbinks

https://georgearomerofoundation.org/...cyLtV2UpwGc6Mw

Thanks for posting this, zbinks.

Interesting bit about how the print ended up at the current owners. It does seem to weaken the rumor that the print was stolen. One would think they would outright say so, if that was the case.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Mr. Thomsen

Interesting bit about how the print ended up at the current owners. It does seem to weaken the rumor that the print was stolen. One would think they would outright say so, if that was the case.

I'd imagine considering the location, it's probably not prudent to say folks are in possession of hot film cannisters. Best to skirt around the issue for fear of legal ramifications.