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Old 10-29-2019, 10:10 PM   #21
Fiffy Fiffy is offline
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Originally Posted by Vilya View Post
Streaming services have to use adaptive streaming
That is not a burden, but a benefit. They can serve any customer based on their specific capability.
Quote:
thereby maintaining files on their servers in multiple sizes to accommodate those with slower and/or fluctuating internet speeds. This uses a lot of server space all of which costs money. Streaming services have to support large numbers of customers saddled with outdated slow internet service.
Storage cost is very low, and modern CDNs can "learn" which type of content is needed in which regions.
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My ISP has raised its prices 40% over the past 3 years; they are the only broadband provider in my area and they take full advantage of it. They are stingy with their data caps, too. My internet service costs will only continue to rise.
In absolute terms maybe, but probably not per bit (since the speed keeps rising as well). But yes, rural areas are disadvantaged in this regard. Fixed wireless access via 5G has the potential to change that.
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Firmware updates have kept my disc players up to date. I can play any codec in common usage.
Inexpensive SoCs with H.265 support, to stick with the example, only became available a few years ago. The problem is that physical formats are always held back by the oldest deployed hardware. There will never be 1080p BDs that use H.265. Not to mention that most player manufacturers don't provide firmware updates for more than a couple of years.

In a nutshell, streaming services can constantly improve, while physical formats can only introduce major changes once in every hardware generation.

Last edited by Fiffy; 10-29-2019 at 10:15 PM.
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:23 PM   #22
Vilya Vilya is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiffy View Post
That is not a burden, but a benefit. They can serve any customer based on their specific capability.
Storage cost is very low, and modern CDNs can "learn" which type of content is needed in which regions.
In absolute terms maybe, but probably not per bit (since the speed keeps rising as well). But yes, rural areas are disadvantaged in this regard. Fixed wireless access via 5G has the potential to change that.
Inexpensive SoCs with H.265 support, to stick with the example, only became available a few years ago. The problem is that physical formats are always held back by the oldest deployed hardware. There will never be 1080p BDs that use H.265. Not to mention that most player manufacturers don't provide firmware updates for more than a couple of years.
Adaptive streaming is a cost and a necessity due to the crazy quilt of variable and unstable internet service that is the nature of the beast.

Operating massive server farms is gigantically expensive; their power demands alone are huge in no small part due to the quite cool temperatures at which they must be housed. Server lifespans are notoriously short requiring frequent replacements. Everything about a server farm is expensive.

My internet provider has offered no service improvements over this time period, just price increases. They have no competition here and they do as little as possible. I have the same service with a much higher bill, that's all.

We don't need H.265 encoded blu-rays. We have higher capacity 100 GB 4K discs encoded with H.265 that deliver bitrates up to 5 times greater than that of 4K streaming. We also have actual ownership when we buy them AND they come with a digital code for when we want to stream away from home.

Streaming can improve, as can hardware with its one time acquisition cost as opposed to streaming's recurring costs, but the reality is that they haven't changed much over the last few years. None of the streaming providers have raised their internet connection speed requirements for streaming their content, because their bitrates have not budged, nor have they changed their codecs beyond adding H.265 and even that was about three years ago. Improvements to streaming will use more data; more data will cost more money; the one follows the day as does the night.

Streaming has not improved to the quality of a 4K disc and it is doubtful that they will anytime soon, if ever. The low rent, low expectations of the typical streaming customer are already met; the streaming providers do not need to do anything more to please the easily and already satisfied who prize economy and $7 per month subscription fees.

Last edited by Vilya; 10-29-2019 at 10:44 PM.
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:23 PM   #23
batman2000 batman2000 is offline
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who offers the least compressed 4k digital releases and how does it compare to uhd blu ray
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:34 PM   #24
steve_dave steve_dave is online now
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who offers the least compressed 4k digital releases and how does it compare to uhd blu ray
Ahem:

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Originally Posted by steve_dave View Post
https://www.kaleidescape.com/

As close to disc as possible, also includes lossless audio delivery. The only downside is the cost: both equipment and films.
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Originally Posted by Gretiem View Post
Actually sometimes it is better than disc quality but it is so ridiculously priced.
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:36 PM   #25
Vilya Vilya is offline
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Apple offers the highest bitrates for their 4K streams, approx. 30 Mbps, with their Apple 4K TV device.

A 4K disc delivers bitrates on average in the 80-90 Mbps range.

Both look very good; 4K disc looks the best. By how much is subjective and in the eye of the beholder.

Kaleidescape's download service is comparable to a 4K disc, but at an extreme cost.
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:38 PM   #26
batman2000 batman2000 is offline
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Originally Posted by Vilya View Post
Apple offers the highest bitrates for their 4K streams, approx. 30 Mbps, with their Apple 4K TV device.

A 4K disc delivers bitrates on average in the 80-90 Mbps range.

Both look very good; 4K disc looks the best. By how much is subjective and in the eye of the beholder.

Kaleidescape's download service is comparable to a 4K disc, but at an extreme cost.
is there any comparison images of this out there?
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:42 PM   #27
Vilya Vilya is offline
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is there any comparison images of this out there?
Almost certainly, but remember that static images of 4K content, screen captures, are often very inaccurate. You really need to see the 4K content in motion via each delivery method to get a real idea as to how they compare. Seeing for yourself is the best way to judge; it needs to please you, afterall, not anyone else.

I gotta go program my new gaming mouse, a gift no less, so I cede the podium.

Last edited by Vilya; 10-29-2019 at 10:48 PM.
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:49 PM   #28
batman2000 batman2000 is offline
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Almost certainly, but remember that static images of 4K content, screen captures, are often very inaccurate. You really need to see the 4K content in motion via each delivery method to get a real idea as to how they compare.
man I hate that 4k blu ray isn't catching on because movies like the Beverly hills cop trilogy and home alone are stuck to uhd digital and I want the perfect picture quality from these movies. digital seems to still sucky in comparison. too bad it takes too have a mbps to get to the perfection that is uhd blu ray
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:52 PM   #29
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We just got It's A Wonderful Life on 4K disc today; it was available as only a 4K digital title for a very long time, but now we have it on 4K disc! Never give up; more great titles are coming to the format.
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Old 10-29-2019, 11:04 PM   #30
batman2000 batman2000 is offline
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We just got It's A Wonderful Life on 4K disc today; it was available as only a 4K digital title for a very long time, but now we have it on 4K disc! Never give up; more great titles are coming to the format.
yeah but why didn't they announce a 4k blu ray of the Beverly hills cop trilogy instead it gets only a digital release
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Old 10-29-2019, 11:31 PM   #31
Vilya Vilya is offline
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yeah but why didn't they announce a 4k blu ray of the Beverly hills cop trilogy instead it gets only a digital release
The announcement says that the films got a 4K remastering. The upcoming blu-rays are merely sourced from that.

A 4k disc release may still come...after we have had plenty of time to buy the blu-ray edition first.
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Old 10-29-2019, 11:34 PM   #32
batman2000 batman2000 is offline
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The announcement says that the films got a 4K remastering. The upcoming blu-rays are merely sourced from that.

A 4k disc release may still come...after we have had plenty of time to buy the blu-ray edition first.
they announced uhd hdr digital as well but no uhd blu ray that's why i'm upset about this I hope your right I want the format to have this and the fox movies as well on it but Disney now owns fox which also means no proper regular blu ray proper remaster of the buffy and angel by joss whedon
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Old 10-29-2019, 11:44 PM   #33
Vilya Vilya is offline
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Quote:
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they announced uhd hdr digital as well but no uhd blu ray that's why i'm upset about this I hope your right I want the format to have this and the fox movies as well on it but Disney now owns fox which also means no proper regular blu ray proper remaster of the buffy and angel by joss whedon
Getting older TV shows on blu-ray was unlikely even before Disney ate Fox whole unless they were licensed to someone like Shout! or Mill Creek. I don't see Disney ever licensing anything they own to anyone, though.

Still got my ancient DVDs of both, so that's sumpin'.
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Old 10-29-2019, 11:47 PM   #34
Steedeel Steedeel is offline
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No.
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Old 10-29-2019, 11:49 PM   #35
batman2000 batman2000 is offline
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I wish another company had the rights to buffy and angel
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Old 11-05-2019, 03:10 AM   #36
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UHD and Blu-rays already lose around 90-95% of the source (file size) through compression.
If by "source" you are referring to raw footage, sure (the percentage is likely to be higher particularly if filmed at RAW and/or at 4K resolution or greater).

However, the disparity between DCI and Blu-ray/UHD file sizes is surprisingly small (especially with UHD, where the sizes are more or less in line with DCIs). The DCI package for many films are only marginally higher than a standard Blu-ray in terms of file size; in which case, the Blu-ray, when compared to the DCI, is about 30%-60% smaller (but Blu-rays generally tend to house additional audio tracks, special features etc., so this is just a ballpark estimate), but most of the figures that I had seen pertain to 2K DCIs as they constitute the majority of releases, but even filmed-for-IMAX Sully's DCI was surprisingly compact (I can't remember where I had seen the DCI sheet for it though as it's been a few years; it may have been on this site).
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Old 11-05-2019, 04:46 AM   #37
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Maybe

4K discs are great, but I have seen some real damn good 4K films on digital too.
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