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Old 12-06-2019, 02:08 PM   #101
Auditor55 Auditor55 is offline
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I appreciate the advice, but maybe my issue lies with the Sony brand. Notice that nws56 also has a Sony TV (a higher end one, I presume) and has a similar problem as me.

My colleague has a Samsung 49" Series 7 TV, which is not the highest end TV on the market, and he keeps telling me that the HDR on his TV is jaw-dropping incredible. I'm not saying his picture "pops" but all I'm saying is that he claims that the HDR catches his eye in some sort of way.

So, I still say something is missing. And like I said, maybe it's Sony and I'll be sure to steer clear from their TVs going forward.
In my opinion, since the Z9D, Sony LED TV's have been on a downhill spiral. They might have made some minor improvement here and there but overall, in terms of PQ, the Z9D is still superior to all of their LED's and those TV's came out in 2016. Sony should have improved on the Z9D and people like you would be happy if you purchased one.
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Old 12-06-2019, 08:12 PM   #102
MechaGodzilla MechaGodzilla is offline
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In my opinion, since the Z9D, Sony LED TV's have been on a downhill spiral. They might have made some minor improvement here and there but overall, in terms of PQ, the Z9D is still superior to all of their LED's and those TV's came out in 2016. Sony should have improved on the Z9D and people like you would be happy if you purchased one.
I don't think that's entirely fair. I mean, the Z9 series is Sony's absolute top of the line as far as LCD is concerned. Comparing the Z9D to its successors the Z9F and Z9G, absolutely. But TVs like the X900E, X930/940E, X900F and X950G aren't supposed to outperform the Z9D to begin with, they represent the next step or two down. The lower high-end/upper mid-range.
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Old 12-07-2019, 02:33 AM   #103
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Britain used to be hot spot for popular culture. Then the decline in working class culture for better or worse happened 35/40 years ago.

And that's why you have Coldplay and Ed Sheeran instead of The Beatles today.

Just saying...
I dislike both. Great music used to come from the UK (Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Rainbow...),now Coldplay make popular elevator music, and Ed Sheeran,the guy looks retarded and his music matches his look.
In Spain we used to have Spanish Pop & Rock in the 80's and the 90's, now it's all bad Andalusian Pseudo Pop music and bad Latin American like rap music with very macho-man lyrics that turn women into objects.
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Old 12-07-2019, 04:10 PM   #104
Auditor55 Auditor55 is offline
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I don't think that's entirely fair. I mean, the Z9 series is Sony's absolute top of the line as far as LCD is concerned. Comparing the Z9D to its successors the Z9F and Z9G, absolutely. But TVs like the X900E, X930/940E, X900F and X950G aren't supposed to outperform the Z9D to begin with, they represent the next step or two down. The lower high-end/upper mid-range.
I don't disagree with what you are saying, it's just that I believe all future Sony TV's should be Z9D level or better improved Z9D's, even their lesser lines. I don't understand making future TV's in their line that are in many ways inferior to 2016 TV when they still have the technology to make better TV's. Why go backwards? People loved the Z9D's, why stop manufacturing them or an improved version of them, even at a lower price and flood the market. It's been said Sony is deprioritizing LED to push OLED. Why not put the Extreme X1 chip of updated version of the Z9D. The Z9F, which was supposedly an update to the Z9D, was for all intent and purpose, a completely different to TV. I was skeptical of the Z9F because Sony skipped the letter E in their series.
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Old 12-07-2019, 04:56 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post
I don't disagree with what you are saying, it's just that I believe all future Sony TV's should be Z9D level or better improved Z9D's, even their lesser lines. I don't understand making future TV's in their line that are in many ways inferior to 2016 TV when they still have the technology to make better TV's. Why go backwards? People loved the Z9D's, why stop manufacturing them or an improved version of them, even at a lower price and flood the market. It's been said Sony is deprioritizing LED to push OLED. Why not put the Extreme X1 chip of updated version of the Z9D. The Z9F, which was supposedly an update to the Z9D, was for all intent and purpose, a completely different to TV. I was skeptical of the Z9F because Sony skipped the letter E in their series.
On the other hand though, it makes me feel even better being a Z9D owner. In the end, it turns out that this TV is true value for money seeing as it still hasn't been topped to this day
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Old 12-07-2019, 05:06 PM   #106
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On the other hand though, it makes me feel even better being a Z9D owner. In the end, it turns out that this TV is true value for money seeing as it still hasn't been topped to this day
I like technology to progress. High end features should eventually trickle down to other models as well. You do not want someone to replace/upgrade his TV to only discover that its performance is inferior (not even par) .... Also this could mean LCDs are being neglected for OLED by Sony.... Not good signs
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Old 12-07-2019, 06:44 PM   #107
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What makes buying TVs (or any electronics, for that matter) so difficult for me is the fact that there really is no "perfect" review. Take the Sony Z9D, for example. Rtings gives an average to low score on Response Time, sound quality, and viewing angle. It's an excellent review overall, but when you look at the individual sections, they still complain about certain things. I go through all this nonsense when I'm researching so this is why I tend to take some of the negative comments with a grain of salt. So sometimes I question whether it's really worth upping my budget and buying something higher end when the reviews still find something about it to quibble over. I wish doing research was a simple black and white project, but it isn't and that's why I struggle so much with it.
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Old 12-07-2019, 07:17 PM   #108
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What makes buying TVs (or any electronics, for that matter) so difficult for me is the fact that there really is no "perfect" review. Take the Sony Z9D, for example. Rtings gives an average to low score on Response Time, sound quality, and viewing angle. It's an excellent review overall, but when you look at the individual sections, they still complain about certain things. I go through all this nonsense when I'm researching so this is why I tend to take some of the negative comments with a grain of salt. So sometimes I question whether it's really worth upping my budget and buying something higher end when the reviews still find something about it to quibble over. I wish doing research was a simple black and white project, but it isn't and that's why I struggle so much with it.
It's a rule of thumb, there is no perfect TV. Only what is best for your usage.
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Old 12-07-2019, 07:21 PM   #109
Auditor55 Auditor55 is offline
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What makes buying TVs (or any electronics, for that matter) so difficult for me is the fact that there really is no "perfect" review. Take the Sony Z9D, for example. Rtings gives an average to low score on Response Time, sound quality, and viewing angle. It's an excellent review overall, but when you look at the individual sections, they still complain about certain things. I go through all this nonsense when I'm researching so this is why I tend to take some of the negative comments with a grain of salt. So sometimes I question whether it's really worth upping my budget and buying something higher end when the reviews still find something about it to quibble over. I wish doing research was a simple black and white project, but it isn't and that's why I struggle so much with it.
Notwithstanding what RTings wrote about the Z9D, if you're in the market for LED, it was the benchmark for LED displays. Rtings probably wouldn't rate another LED display over it. They would try to influence you to go OLED, however not everyone likes OLED and think its the holy grail of display technologies. Rtings would advise you to go to OLED as to avoid some of the pitfalls of some of the flaws that comes with LED that are not exclusive to the Z9D.
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Old 12-07-2019, 07:47 PM   #110
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Notwithstanding what RTings wrote about the Z9D, if you're in the market for LED, it was the benchmark for LED displays. Rtings probably wouldn't rate another LED display over it. They would try to influence you to go OLED, however not everyone likes OLED and think its the holy grail of display technologies. Rtings would advise you to go to OLED as to avoid some of the pitfalls of some of the flaws that comes with LED that are not exclusive to the Z9D.
Yep. I'm an OLED owner, but I don't recommend it to people because it's such a specialised tec mostly for the rich, film nutters (myself) or those who worship every sport under the sun.

Most premium end LCDs will give satisfy most with performance, colours, contrast ect.
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Old 12-07-2019, 08:02 PM   #111
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Yep. I'm an OLED owner, but I don't recommend it to people because it's such a specialised tec mostly for the rich, film nutters (myself) or those who worship every sport under the sun.

Most premium end LCDs will give satisfy most with performance, colours, contrast ect.
Yep, that's why I was saying Sony should improve on the Z9D, like improving the viewing angles and upgrading the processing power with the Extreme 1 Ultimate chip. With that said, viewing angles is an issue of LED technology itself and if that's a deal breaker a consumer should go with OLED. No matter how an LED improves viewing angles, it will never match a self emissive display like OLED for viewing angles.
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Old 12-07-2019, 08:08 PM   #112
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Yep, that's why I was saying Sony should improve on the Z9D, like improving the viewing angles and upgrading the processing power with the Extreme 1 Ultimate chip. With that said, viewing angles is an issue of LED technology itself and if that's a deal breaker a consumer should go with OLED. No matter how an LED improves viewing angles, it will never match a self emissive display like OLED for viewing angles.
I think Sony are working on micro LED (Sony Crystal) which is technically still LED. Just not as we've traditionally known it up till this point. But the current consumer LED backlights have reached pretty much pinnacle of technological performance. So they probably don't see any point throwing any more money into it for what are essentially just a few wee tweaks.
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Old 12-07-2019, 08:33 PM   #113
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I think Sony are working on micro LED (Sony Crystal) which is technically still LED. Just not as we've traditionally known it up till this point. But the current consumer LED backlights have reached pretty much pinnacle of technological performance. So they probably don't see any point throwing any more money into it for what are essentially just a few wee tweaks.
I wish micro-led was available. How close is Sony to bringing micro-led displays to the market?
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Old 12-07-2019, 08:44 PM   #114
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I wish micro-led was available. How close is Sony to bringing micro-led displays to the market?
No idea. I just seen Vincent at HDTV had a video with one. It wasn't consumer level. If it was, well billionaires only.
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Old 12-07-2019, 08:47 PM   #115
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I like technology to progress. High end features should eventually trickle down to other models as well. You do not want someone to replace/upgrade his TV to only discover that its performance is inferior (not even par) .... Also this could mean LCDs are being neglected for OLED by Sony.... Not good signs
I know what you mean and you're absolutely right, but strictly looking at it from a Z9D owner point of view, then you couldn't be more happy about it.

Having said that though, I'm still waiting on Sony to top the Z9D. I'm ready for it, so hopefully they got something lined up for next year.
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Old 12-07-2019, 10:51 PM   #116
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I don't disagree with what you are saying, it's just that I believe all future Sony TV's should be Z9D level or better improved Z9D's, even their lesser lines. I don't understand making future TV's in their line that are in many ways inferior to 2016 TV when they still have the technology to make better TV's. Why go backwards? People loved the Z9D's, why stop manufacturing them or an improved version of them, even at a lower price and flood the market. It's been said Sony is deprioritizing LED to push OLED. Why not put the Extreme X1 chip of updated version of the Z9D. The Z9F, which was supposedly an update to the Z9D, was for all intent and purpose, a completely different to TV. I was skeptical of the Z9F because Sony skipped the letter E in their series.
Why sceptical? You do realise that Sony assign the letter according to the year, yes? So the 2013 4K models were 'A's, 2014 were 'B's, 2015 were 'C's and so on. They merely skipped the letter E in their premium bestest LCD range (unlike their other ranges, which got their 'E's) because they didn't release a specific ZD9 replacement in 2017, the TV was so wildly over-engineered that it was still the best TV in the whole Sony LCD range for a full two years, and even then they kept the 100" version going for a while after that as the flagship 'money is no object' giant screen until they released the 8K 98" model. There wasn't another Zed until 2018, hence it being an 'F' rather than an 'E'.

I think the "wildly over-engineered" thing is part of the problem though when it comes to creating a true successor to the ZD9, as Sony don't want to spend that sort of money again just to develop a mere LCD TV in this day and age, not unless they can actually charge people up the arseh0le for it e.g. the 8K models or the dual-panel tech in their BVM-HX310 mastering monitor intended as a replacement for the OLED one. Not that they're giving up on LCD, no no no, I just think that they've given up trying to better the ZD9. Would LOVE to be proved wrong next month though!
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Old 12-09-2019, 04:47 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post
I don't disagree with what you are saying, it's just that I believe all future Sony TV's should be Z9D level or better improved Z9D's, even their lesser lines. I don't understand making future TV's in their line that are in many ways inferior to 2016 TV when they still have the technology to make better TV's. Why go backwards? People loved the Z9D's, why stop manufacturing them or an improved version of them, even at a lower price and flood the market. It's been said Sony is deprioritizing LED to push OLED. Why not put the Extreme X1 chip of updated version of the Z9D. The Z9F, which was supposedly an update to the Z9D, was for all intent and purpose, a completely different to TV. I was skeptical of the Z9F because Sony skipped the letter E in their series.
I get where you're coming from, but the problem is Z9D performance comes with Z9D price. The X900/930/940/950 series TVs are built to a lower price point, and they deliver very good performance in that price range. The X900E (the letters correspond to years, as Geoff did an excellent job explaining, so E = 2017) for example was a huge hit for Sony in 2017, praised for its price-performance ratio and being such an excellent value for the money. Same goes for its successor, the X900F. Those two TVs were/are so successful precisely because of how good they are for the price. Compare the 65" Z9D and 65" X900E at their cheapest, and the Z9D was almost twice as expensive.

Sure, they could put hundreds of dimming zones and BMD in there, but that drives up the cost, and suddenly your Z9D-level X900H/I/whatever won't be purchased by all those people who want a premium LCD but aren't able or comfortable with paying that much for it. I think it's great if Sony can sell decent HDR TVs to a wider range of people, and not just have the Z9 series at the top, then dropping down to edge-lit LCDs below that.

All that said, I do sympathize, and agree that they could perhaps do a bit more. Geoff D and Scottishguy are right that conventional backlight tech has pretty much peaked/stagnated, and it takes something a bit more to improve on it. I think mini-LED backlight is our greatest (realistic) hope for improved local dimming performance in consumer LCDs at this point in time, would be nice to see Sony adopt that.

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Yep. I'm an OLED owner, but I don't recommend it to people because it's such a specialised tec mostly for the rich, film nutters (myself) or those who worship every sport under the sun.

Most premium end LCDs will give satisfy most with performance, colours, contrast ect.
I've said it before, but I'm awfully tempted to try an OLED. It's just I'd feel more comfortable if I wouldn't use that bad boy for video games, and ones that look like this much of the time:



That's just asking for it.

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Yep, that's why I was saying Sony should improve on the Z9D, like improving the viewing angles and upgrading the processing power with the Extreme 1 Ultimate chip. With that said, viewing angles is an issue of LED technology itself and if that's a deal breaker a consumer should go with OLED. No matter how an LED improves viewing angles, it will never match a self emissive display like OLED for viewing angles.
Improving the viewing angles is what they decided to do with the new premium LCDs, and look how that went. They did, but it was at the expense of contrast. As you correctly note, LCD just can't be "the best" at both at the same time.
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Old 12-09-2019, 05:06 AM   #118
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The PS5 should have an OLED mode, and a cutting edge one at that. Unless Sony are really stupid, and don't want to support their own eco system.

Also, like I've said. I think Sony have deliberately held off on variable refresh rates so people aren't just going to go for cheaper older models when PS5 hits.
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Old 12-09-2019, 05:13 AM   #119
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The PS5 should have an OLED mode, and a cutting edge one at that. Unless Sony are really stupid, and don't want to support their own eco system.
True, true. I've read about how the Xbox One does some pretty clever little things to combat burn-in. You'd think Sony would follow suit.

Last edited by MechaGodzilla; 12-09-2019 at 05:18 AM.
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Old 12-09-2019, 06:34 PM   #120
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Is OLED burn in a large risk even with light/medium gaming or is it only really a potential problem if your gaming for hours on end with static images on the screen?
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