Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Lowenbotten

Knock it off already. Your act is tiresome. Do you have some kind of personal stake in digital goods? You seem determined to convince everyone that digital is superior to the point of saying things that are blatantly untrue, especially your claim that Vudu = Blu-ray (it doesn't). Yes, I know you'll go on about fiber to the home. Fiber to the home doesn't magically make the video source, Vudu's files on their servers, the same as Blu-ray.

Like I said, I saw this coming Decades Ago, when I was Streaming my DVD Rips from a Home Server. Like the experts have said, it's all about BitRate, Digital Streams from Blu-ray or Server of equal amounts gives you the same Picture Quality. In my opinion Vudu with their HDX has the best PQ, and they have been raising their BitRate according to Bandwidth. Fiber gives you the most Bandwidth, and I predict our Infrastructure in the U.S. will upgrade to this.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I see your point now, you're not putting down Digital Streaming but from the point of Distribution, Physical is better. That may be so, but the way I see it, it will only get more expensive. 4k is around $30, and Blu-ray $20 for new releases. I know you Disc Lovers count on the prices even lower, like you said, the used market. So I think what will happen, especially with 8k, 16k+, is the prices will keep going up. It's all about supply and demand, even in the used market. So if you want Disc, you're going to pay for it!

I disagree.

Most of the times the digital price is more. Especially for older titles they always have a default price of $13.99 on VUDU whereas you can usually find the disc for $7.50 or $9.99 etc. And many times they will come with the digital copy as well.

Even with new releases sometimes the digital is more (like Star Trek beyond currently) though usually the same price and I think digital should always be cheaper. I get you are paying for convenience but the studios don't have to pay to ship it to stores or artwork or cases etc.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I see your point now, you're not putting down Digital Streaming but from the point of Distribution, Physical is better. That may be so, but the way I see it, it will only get more expensive. 4k is around $30, and Blu-ray $20 for new releases. I know you Disc Lovers count on the prices even lower, like you said, the used market. So I think what will happen, especially with 8k, 16k+, is the prices will keep going up. It's all about supply and demand, even in the used market. So if you want Disc, you're going to pay for it!

Originally Posted by flyry

I disagree.

Most of the times the digital price is more. Especially for older titles they always have a default price of $13.99 on VUDU whereas you can usually find the disc for $7.50 or $9.99 etc. And many times they will come with the digital copy as well.

Even with new releases sometimes the digital is more (like Star Trek beyond currently) though usually the same price and I think digital should always be cheaper. I get you are paying for convenience but the studios don't have to pay to ship it to stores or artwork or cases etc.

I was talking about the future of Discs, when they go 8k+. The prices will just keep going up, because they will cost more to make and fewer of them. The demand will go up, and so will the prices. Like anything else, when something is scarce the price goes up. Digital will remain more competitive, and the prices more reasonable. Digital prices have gone up, but at the UV Stores the prices come down according to demand and how long the Movie has been out.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I was talking about the future of Discs, when they go 8k+. The prices will just keep going up, because they will cost more to make and fewer of them. The demand will go up, and so will the prices. Like anything else, when something is scarce the price goes up. Digital will remain more competitive, and the prices more reasonable. Digital prices have gone up, but at the UV Stores the prices come down according to demand and how long the Movie has been out.

8K will be a niche with both digital and physical. Therefore it will likely be high priced on both. As a premium product the studios have no reason to ever price it low. The reason the studios introduce higher and higher quality products (both physically and digitally) is so they can charge more for them.

Are there any 4K downloads for less than $15 currently? I've bought quite a few UHD Blu-rays for under $15.

[larrs]

Originally Posted by Lowenbotten

Knock it off already. Your act is tiresome. Do you have some kind of personal stake in digital goods? You seem determined to convince everyone that digital is superior to the point of saying things that are blatantly untrue, especially your claim that Vudu = Blu-ray (it doesn't). Yes, I know you'll go on about fiber to the home. Fiber to the home doesn't magically make the video source, Vudu's files on their servers, the same as Blu-ray.

Agreed. I have fiber to the home and it cannot magically increase the bandwidth that Vudu uses. Pretty simple math.

Right now, my average subjective (but relatively easy to spot by me and my family) ranking for picture quality on my 110" screen is:

1. UHD Blu-Ray from a 4K+ source
2. tie UHD Blu-Ray from a 2K source
2. tie Blu-ray from a 4K source
3. tie Blu-Ray from a 2K source
3. tie 4K stream from a 4K source
4. 4K stream from a 2K source
5. HDX stream

[WestMan]

I know they have screen shots that show the Vudu HDX looks the same as Blu-ray. That might be true for single shots in a movie. However, I can walk into a room with somebody playing a movie on my XBOX One, and I can tell if it is Vudu, Netflix, or Blu-ray. And I don't have a trained eye...

My Vudu collection is about 80% of what my Blu-ray collection is. It is mostly from Digital Copy Codes from Blu-ray's I have purchased or the Disc To Digital deals that Vudu does.

Lastly, I have 300 Mbps Internet that can stream multiple sources at the same time. I've done Playstation Vue, Netflix, and Vudu at the same time with good quality streaming on all 3. It still isn't as reliable as good old fashion discs. There is nothing worse then watching a movie and having it interrupted by the internet connection. It barely happens now, but it happens enough that it isn't worth it to rely on digital when I REALLY want to watch a movie.

[veritas]

Originally Posted by larrs

Agreed. I have fiber to the home and it cannot magically increase the bandwidth that Vudu uses. Pretty simple math.

Right now, my average subjective (but relatively easy to spot by me and my family) ranking for picture quality on my 110" screen is:

1. UHD Blu-Ray from a 4K+ source
2. tie UHD Blu-Ray from a 2K source
2. tie Blu-ray from a 4K source
3. tie Blu-Ray from a 2K source
3. tie 4K stream from a 4K source
4. 4K stream from a 2K source
5. HDX stream

I more or less agree with those my list would go
1. UHD Blu-Ray from a 4K+ source
2. tie UHD Blu-Ray from a 2K source
2. tie Blu-ray from a 4K source
3. tie Blu-Ray from a 2K source
3. tie 4K stream from a 4K source
4. 4K stream from a 2K source
5. itunes digital hd
6. netflix hd It doesnt look the best but its very stable quality
7 and 8 HDX stream/amazon hd tie duo to reliability problems causing quality dips. The compression on both is also more visible to me compared to iTunes even when both are working properly

[PCFan]

Originally Posted by WestMan

I know they have screen shots that show the Vudu HDX looks the same as Blu-ray. That might be true for single shots in a movie. However, I can walk into a room with somebody playing a movie on my XBOX One, and I can tell if it is Vudu, Netflix, or Blu-ray. And I don't have a trained eye...

My Vudu collection is about 80% of what my Blu-ray collection is. It is mostly from Digital Copy Codes from Blu-ray's I have purchased or the Disc To Digital deals that Vudu does.

Lastly, I have 300 Mbps Internet that can stream multiple sources at the same time. I've done Playstation Vue, Netflix, and Vudu at the same time with good quality streaming on all 3. It still isn't as reliable as good old fashion discs. There is nothing worse then watching a movie and having it interrupted by the internet connection. It barely happens now, but it happens enough that it isn't worth it to rely on digital when I REALLY want to watch a movie.

Everyday I get random internet disconnections for around 5 minutes each time. It can happen as much as 4 times a day in my home. These disconnects happen between 4pm-10pm everyday. At other hours my internet connection is stable or at least I don't have disconnects at the othe hours I use my internet. It's not a wi-fi issue either since my PC which is connected through wired gets disconnected from the internet as well. Can someone here explain what could be happening if they have an idea?

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by PCFan

Everyday I get random internet disconnections for around 5 minutes each time. It can happen as much as 4 times a day in my home. These disconnects happen between 4pm-10pm everyday. At other hours my internet connection is stable or at least I don't have disconnects at the othe hours I use my internet. It's not a wi-fi issue either since my PC which is connected through wired gets disconnected from the internet as well. Can someone here explain what could be happening if they have an idea?

You have to tell us how you are connected, your connection does not sound stable you should not get random disconnects. Who is your Provider, and have they checked out your set up? If it's Cable or DSL it sounds like a faulty connection problem. A Tech has to come out with a meter to check everything out.

[zorbonaut]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You have to tell us how you are connected, your connection does not sound stable you should not get random disconnects. Who is your Provider, and have they checked out your set up? If it's Cable or DSL it sounds like a faulty connection problem. A Tech has to come out with a meter to check everything out.

I find it hard to believe that all of us don't encounter random disconnects. Over the past 15 years or so I have moved around quite a bit. I've lived in about 10 different homes in three different states (CA, PA, and MN). I've had just about every type of modem and provider both cable and DSL and I have always encountered random disconnects or other network issues. I don't think I have ever had a provider that didn't have issues at minimum once every few weeks. The best was probably 7-8 years ago when I had Verizon FIOS and probably only had an issue every few weeks or so. The worst was Frontier and I had issues with them daily. Keep in mind I've purchased routers and I have used routers that the provider has supplied. I've self diagnosed and I've had technicians out to inspect. Same thing goes for my employer. I manage at one of the largest corps in the US and the local office I work at has had network problems since this location has been open (8 years). We have had all sorts of "high level" technicians come in and run tests for months at a time. We have had people from out of state fly out for a week who are "more experienced" with certain aspects but still have issues.

Let's face it, internet connections have yet to reach the same reliability as other things like gas, electric etc...

I own quite a few Digital Copies but I'm not ready yet to make it my only source of films. In contrast, I feel pretty confident that it would take a pretty severe storm or act of God to lose power for more than a few hours. I can't even remember the last time I had a power outage its been so long.

[veritas]

Originally Posted by zorbonaut

In contrast, I feel pretty confident that it would take a pretty severe storm or act of God to lose power for more than a few hours. I can't even remember the last time I had a power outage its been so long.

Later on one branch falls and you lose power for at a minimum a few hours not that your discs will be much help either when this happens. It really doesnt take much to lose power for up to a day depending on where you live but ya companies are way faster to act when the grid goes down.

Or oh I just thought of one that happened to me personally last month. where you lose internet for the whole day because Comcast goes out back and disconnects your internet because of leakage rather then finding and fixing the wire . I have had Comcast literally disable our internet because they had a feedback problem without telling us they then sent somebody saying do you have a internet problem and to call a number without owning to disabling the internet and then having to wait a day for the proper guy to come out and fix the problem they caused (who mentioned a trap was placed by comcast disabling internet but not cable...) . The guy also mentioned that the trap was placed on almost all of our neighbors also but he was not going to do shit till they also called Comcast to get it fixed.

So ya you can lose internet for a day or more easily due to the fact that all we have for internet access is a crappy monopoly in most cities. People die if the power goes out for days and they get sued for cuting heat or the power in hot summers or cold winters but nobody does shit to Comcast screwing with the internet.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by zorbonaut

I find it hard to believe that all of us don't encounter random disconnects. Over the past 15 years or so I have moved around quite a bit. I've lived in about 10 different homes in three different states (CA, PA, and MN). I've had just about every type of modem and provider both cable and DSL and I have always encountered random disconnects or other network issues. I don't think I have ever had a provider that didn't have issues at minimum once every few weeks. The best was probably 7-8 years ago when I had Verizon FIOS and probably only had an issue every few weeks or so. The worst was Frontier and I had issues with them daily. Keep in mind I've purchased routers and I have used routers that the provider has supplied. I've self diagnosed and I've had technicians out to inspect. Same thing goes for my employer. I manage at one of the largest corps in the US and the local office I work at has had network problems since this location has been open (8 years). We have had all sorts of "high level" technicians come in and run tests for months at a time. We have had people from out of state fly out for a week who are "more experienced" with certain aspects but still have issues.

Let's face it, internet connections have yet to reach the same reliability as other things like gas, electric etc...

Well you said it, the best service was with FiOS and that is Fiber. I keep telling you guys that is The Future. Having said that, consistent problems should not be tolerated. Yes, as we get more Technical things break down but not on a consistent bases. If there is a consistent failure a good Technician should be able to find it.

I Retired from AT&T as a Service Manager, but I worked my way up from Running Jumpers to this position. So I knew the Company from the ground up, and we put in Fiber Networks for some of the top Companies in The Silicon Valley. As a Service Manager I was in charge of Installing and Maintaining these Networks, and if there was problems, and I could not find it, their favorite word was Unacceptable. So I either found the problem or I would lose the Customer. I never lost a Customer!

[zorbonaut]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Well you said it, the best service was with FiOS and that is Fiber. I keep telling you guys that is The Future. Having said that, consistent problems should not be tolerated. Yes, as we get more Technical things break down but not on a consistent bases. If there is a consistent failure a good Technician should be able to find it.

I Retired from AT&T as a Service Manager, but I worked my way up from Running Jumpers to this position. So I knew the Company from the ground up, and we put in Fiber Networks for some of the top Companies in The Silicon Valley. As a Service Manager I was in charge of Installing and Maintaining these Networks, and if there was problems, and I could not find it, their favorite word was Unacceptable. So I either found the problem or I would lose the Customer. I never lost a Customer!

My brother in law has worked for AT&T for like 20 years and is a Manager and I know the area he is in is tied to Fiber....Wish I had Fiber as an option where I live now.

[huskerbear]

Originally Posted by zorbonaut

My brother in law has worked for AT&T for like 20 years and is a Manager and I know the area he is in is tied to Fiber....Wish I had Fiber as an option where I live now.

Never dreamed we would get fiber. We live in what many would call the boonies lol...closest neighbor is a mile away. We had to petition the state to get our phone company provider changed, the new company just brought fiber right to our house!!! old company was 3 megs, now I get 250!

[Rich1631]

My 3 major issues with digital:

1. Higher prices
2. No centralized service / too many digital stores. No way to keep a uniform library to find stuff. Having to keep track of what movie you have redeemed/bought on Vudu, ITunes, Google Play Movies, Amazon, etc. It's a pain in the A**. And as it is right now, there are titles in 4K that are only on Google Play Movies, then others that are only on Vudu, then others that are only on Fandango. And none of these are even on disc yet. This is just stupid. How the hell would anybody keep track of what is where.
3. Streaming quality. Hell not just picture and audio, but stuff on Vudu doesn't even have the correct aspect ratio.

The loss of extras can be a 4th issue, but that is ok to me (never watch them). But these 3 really bug me. And nobody mentions my second point. So help me god, if discs die I'm switching over to piracy like the rest of the world. I'm not going to deal with the million different stores/services. That is moronic logic and so inconvenient.

[Mr Kite]

Originally Posted by Rich1631

My 3 major issues with digital:

1. Higher prices
2. No centralized service / too many digital stores. No way to keep a uniform library to find stuff. Having to keep track of what movie you have redeemed/bought on Vudu, ITunes, Google Play Movies, Amazon, etc. It's a pain in the A**. And as it is right now, there are titles in 4K that are only on Google Play Movies, then others that are only on Vudu, then others that are only on Fandango. And none of these are even on disc yet. This is just stupid. How the hell would anybody keep track of what is where.
3. Streaming quality. Hell not just picture and audio, but stuff on Vudu doesn't even have the correct aspect ratio.

The loss of extras can be a 4th issue, but that is ok to me (never watch them). But these 3 really bug me. And nobody mentions my second point. So help me god, if discs die I'm switching over to piracy like the rest of the world. I'm not going to deal with the million different stores/services. That is moronic logic and so inconvenient.

Also no restoration investment, you get what your given.

[huskerbear]

Originally Posted by Rich1631

My 3 major issues with digital:

1. Higher prices
2. No centralized service / too many digital stores. No way to keep a uniform library to find stuff. Having to keep track of what movie you have redeemed/bought on Vudu, ITunes, Google Play Movies, Amazon, etc. It's a pain in the A**. And as it is right now, there are titles in 4K that are only on Google Play Movies, then others that are only on Vudu, then others that are only on Fandango. And none of these are even on disc yet. This is just stupid. How the hell would anybody keep track of what is where.
3. Streaming quality. Hell not just picture and audio, but stuff on Vudu doesn't even have the correct aspect ratio.

The loss of extras can be a 4th issue, but that is ok to me (never watch them). But these 3 really bug me. And nobody mentions my second point. So help me god, if discs die I'm switching over to piracy like the rest of the world. I'm not going to deal with the million different stores/services. That is moronic logic and so inconvenient.

Ultraviolet was suppose to solve the "No centralized service" but the largest providers haven't joined....Disney later did their own UV (DMA) and more providers joined but....only 1 studios movies.
Stick to one provider, I use Vudu because it works well and is available all over. If more providers join there will be more options. Everything is in one place, not scattered all over. Not perfect but the best we can do right now is stick with one provider, or forget it and stick to disc only.

[PCFan]

Originally Posted by Rich1631

My 3 major issues with digital:

1. Higher prices
2. No centralized service / too many digital stores. No way to keep a uniform library to find stuff. Having to keep track of what movie you have redeemed/bought on Vudu, ITunes, Google Play Movies, Amazon, etc. It's a pain in the A**. And as it is right now, there are titles in 4K that are only on Google Play Movies, then others that are only on Vudu, then others that are only on Fandango. And none of these are even on disc yet. This is just stupid. How the hell would anybody keep track of what is where.
3. Streaming quality. Hell not just picture and audio, but stuff on Vudu doesn't even have the correct aspect ratio.

The loss of extras can be a 4th issue, but that is ok to me (never watch them). But these 3 really bug me. And nobody mentions my second point. So help me god, if discs die I'm switching over to piracy like the rest of the world. I'm not going to deal with the million different stores/services. That is moronic logic and so inconvenient.

On 3, about your comment on incorrect aspect ratios. That is not a streaming issue. Even some movies on blu-ray and DVD are not presented in the original aspect ratio, not just streaming. In my experience, I think that Vudu is the worst when it comes to aspect ratios for streaming services, but then Vudu might have the correct aspect ratio of a movie while iTunes does not for the same movie and it sometimes is the other way around as well.

[Rich1631]

Originally Posted by PCFan

On 3, about your comment on incorrect aspect ratios. That is not a streaming issue. Even some movies on blu-ray and DVD are not presented in the original aspect ratio, not just streaming. In my experience, I think that Vudu is the worst when it comes to aspect ratios for streaming services, but then Vudu might have the correct aspect ratio of a movie while iTunes does not for the same movie and it sometimes is the other way around as well.

Most blurays are in the correct aspect ratio (Excluding IMAX sequences). As far as iTunes, I'm not aware of any incorrect aspect ratios.

[veritas]

My main problem with digital is the problem that digital is a license while a bd grants ownership.

I can sell my bd with zero problems but digital copies are nontransferable.

Digital copies also have no assurances that they wont stop working a few years into the future if the studios decide they are not profitable. Hell studios like vudu even put stuff in the contract like you can only stream movies you own for free for up to 2 years and then they have the right to charge you for streaming your own movies. If you look at the fine print for the licenses the studios have left a ton of areas where they can cut their losses and **** the user base.

The way digital copies are right now they are nothing more then a long term rental full of drm. I dont really mind digital media but as it is now its not worth paying anything more then what i would pay for a rental or 2.