Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I have little interest in The Mandalorian, which I refer to as the Baby Yoda Show, so even that offering does nothing to entice me.

We watched the entire 1st season and it was just OK. Will not buy on disc or any format. The Dolby Atmos sound track was a real disappointment but not much different from most other pay TV shows we have watched with Atmos. As noted earlier, Game of Thrones S8 was in another league (viewed via BD with Atmos).

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Ender14

I may be paranoid but I have avoided Alexa and other voice activated devices because I'm not sure I want an open microphone in my home at all times. WAY to much like 1984 only we did it willingly.

I am not a fan of bugging my own home, either. I have no intentions of allowing Alexa to eavesdrop on me and there have already been a number of incidents where exactly that has happened.

I am even unhappy that my two TV remotes have voice activation capabilities all of which I have supposedly disabled, but there is no way to really know if that is truly the case.

All said and done I have 5 devices with the potential to eavesdrop on me, my phone, my tablet, my desktop webcam, and my two tv remotes and I make a point to follow Edward Snowden's advice should the need for guaranteed privacy arise: put all listening devices inside of a microwave oven as microwave ovens are fully shielded and these listening devices can not connect to anything while so contained. There are other ways, of course, but this method is fast and easy. Just don't actually cook them.

That is as "conspiracy theorist" as I get and I have not had the need to actually do it, but I like knowing that this is a fast and simple solution.

I have ripped all of my CDs to my computer and I can stream these throughout my home over my own network. I also have some music that I have downloaded and as music downloads are free of any DRM these meet my ownership requirements.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

We watched the entire 1st season and it was just OK. Will not buy on disc or any format. The Dolby Atmos sound track was a real disappointment but not much different from most other pay TV shows we have watched with Atmos. As noted earlier, Game of Thrones S8 was in another league (viewed via BD with Atmos).

I really need to get that Game Of Thrones marathon going and I have season 8 on 4K disc, too. I have only seen this show up to about season 3 or 4, and that is from when it first aired, so watching this will feel like it's all new from the outset.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by flyry

Have not read the thread bud it just came to me with the new Warner Brothers titles available for purchase today that if we ever went full digital no more cheap codes

Lack of choice does that.

Did you really think that they would pass the savings from digital distribution to the consumer?

[Vilya]

Streaming quality is wildly inconsistent and that as much as anything else annoys me about it.

Brightly lit scenes with lots of visual information look very good, even excellent, in the foreground but the deeper you go into the background the more that detail diminishes and even becomes blurred. I am not talking about scenes where the background is intentionally out of focus, either.

Panning shots can be very jerky, like someone bumped the camera instead of deliberately and smoothly moved it.

Time lapse scenes of the daytime sky, sunrise and sunset especially, where the sun is prominent ALWAYS results in obvious banding and this type of shot is used a lot.

For me the worst offender are low light scenes. Shadow detail disintegrates into a murky ill defined mess and the darkest areas break up into a blotchy blocky black/grey mosaic that sometimes borders upon pixelation. Just for fun try to say "blotchy blocky black" three times fast. A cloudy night sky, the depths of a dark tunnel, etc., should look uniformly dark, but with streaming it is a mix of variable black/grey splotches.

Jumping from good quality to poor quality and back again does more to aggravate me than if the quality was just consistently one way or the other. It is quite distracting and it takes me out of the story every time that it happens. Noticing good quality is a pleasant thing, but having it then deteriorate is not. Yoyo-ing between these extremes is frustrating.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Streaming quality is wildly inconsistent and that as much as anything else annoys me about it.

Brightly lit scenes with lots of visual information look very good, even excellent, in the foreground but the deeper you go into the background the more that detail diminishes and even becomes blurred. I am not talking about scenes where the background is intentionally out of focus, either.

Panning shots can be very jerky, like someone bumped the camera instead of deliberately and smoothly moved it.

Time lapse scenes of the daytime sky, sunrise and sunset especially, where the sun is prominent ALWAYS results in obvious banding and this type of shot is used a lot.

For me the worst offender are low light scenes. Shadow detail disintegrates into a murky ill defined mess and the darkest areas break up into a blotchy blocky black/grey mosaic that sometimes borders upon pixelation. Just for fun try to say "blotchy blocky black" three times fast. A cloudy night sky, the depths of a dark tunnel, etc., should look uniformly dark, but with streaming it is a mix of variable black/grey splotches.

Jumping from good quality to poor quality and back again does more to aggravate me than if the quality was just consistently one way or the other. It is quite distracting and it takes me out of the story every time that it happens. Noticing good quality is a pleasant thing, but having it then deteriorate is not. Yoyo-ing between these extremes is frustrating.

I respect your opinion but this isn't my experience of streaming. Just today, I played several Dolby Vision titles on Disney+ to test them, and they looked stunning on an OLED TV. I could see none of the issues you mentioned. Granted this is a 55 inch TV and not a projector / 85 inch screen.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by SCLee

I respect your opinion but this isn't my experience of streaming. Just today, I played several Dolby Vision titles on Disney+ to test them, and they looked stunning on an OLED TV. I could see none of the issues you mentioned. Granted this is a 55 inch TV and not a projector / 85 inch screen.

Those are just my criticisms of streaming's video quality, but they underscore some, not all, of the major reasons why streaming can not be my preferred viewing option. I also notice these streaming deficits with my 60" 4K TV, but they are certainly more obvious with my 85" 4K TV. Streaming is just too inconsistent even when network/server issues are not present.

Still, streaming usually looks far better than what my TV antenna delivers, so there is that consolation prize. I consider streaming video quality overall to be better than adequate, but I am aspiring for a lot more than that from my home theater experience. I did not buy two 4K TVs and other home theater equipment to settle for merely "better than adequate." I want excellence and I am ever in pursuit of it with plenty of upgrades planned.

Besides the all important true ownership issue, I buy content on disc because I want such content in the best and most consistent quality. Streaming, like TV broadcasts, is sufficient for the casual viewing of more disposable fare and also for remote access to content when I am away from home, but that is about all that it offers me; it is just my substitute for cable TV.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Those are just my criticisms of streaming's video quality, but they underscore some, not all, of the major reasons why streaming can not be my preferred viewing option. I also notice these streaming deficits with my 60" 4K TV, but they are certainly more obvious with my 85" 4K TV. Streaming is just too inconsistent even when network/server issues are not present.

Still, streaming usually looks far better than what my TV antenna delivers, so there is that consolation prize. I consider streaming video quality overall to be better than adequate, but I am aspiring for a lot more than that from my home theater experience. I did not buy two 4K TVs and other home theater equipment to settle for merely "better than adequate." I want excellence and I am ever in pursuit of it with plenty of upgrades planned.

Besides the all important true ownership issue, I buy content on disc because I want such content in the best and most consistent quality. Streaming, like TV broadcasts, is sufficient for the casual viewing of more disposable fare and also for remote access to content when I am away from home, but that is about all that it offers me; it is just my substitute for cable TV.

Can I ask you a serious question Vilya? Who are you gonna leave your collection too? Or doesn't it matter? Not to be morbid, but I mean on that sad day that comes to us all.

I was actually thinking the opposite today (and this was after I posted about keeping the discs earlier, because I didn't really test Disney+ until after that, phew!), I may cut down or stop buying physical media. The issue is time and content, there is too much of it everywhere! Just trying to keep up with the shows I watch on a weekly basis and new streaming movies is daunting. But it's also about how often I'm gonna view these films.

Now that I have Disney+ strangely I have no desire to watch the Marvel / Star Wars content but it's nice to know it's there. I suppose that's the same as owning a physical collection. I'm not saying I would never wanna watch them but atm, my priority is with things I haven't seen. As such I finally cancelled my pre-order for the Star Wars 4K boxset. I know I'm gonna like it for five minutes before it collects dust on the shelf and at £200! That's an expensive dustball.

Another issue is the things I like changes constantly. It's the same reason why owning Alexa is better for me, than owning a physical music collection. One minute I'm into Jazz and the next Pop. I often buy something and then think, yeah I don't know if I really like that now! Then I sell it and lose money. This is why i would never get a tattoo, I'm indecisive and a week later I'd be thinking, argh! What is this monstrosity on my arm!

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by SCLee

Can I ask you a serious question Vilya? Who are you gonna leave your collection too? Or doesn't it matter? Not to be morbid, but I mean on that sad day that comes to us all.

I was actually thinking the opposite today (and this was after I posted about keeping the discs earlier, because I didn't really test Disney+ until after that, phew!), I may cut down or stop buying physical media. The issue is time and content, there is too much of it everywhere! Just trying to keep up with the shows I watch on a weekly basis and new streaming movies is daunting. But it's also about how often I'm gonna view these films.

Now that I have Disney+ strangely I have no desire to watch the Marvel / Star Wars content but it's nice to know it's there. I suppose that's the same as owning a physical collection. I'm not saying I would never wanna watch them but atm, my priority is with things I haven't seen. As such I finally cancelled my pre-order for the Star Wars 4K boxset. I know I'm gonna like it for five minutes before it collects dust on the shelf and at £200! That's an expensive dustball.

Another issue is the things I like changes constantly. It's the same reason why owning Alexa is better for me, than owning a physical music collection. One minute I'm into Jazz and the next Pop. I often buy something and then think, yeah I don't know if I really like that now! Then I sell it and lose money. This is why i would never get a tattoo, I'm indecisive and a week later I'd be thinking, argh! What is this monstrosity on my arm!

My local university offers film studies courses and my collection will be partly donated to them and also to local libraries, hospitals, nursing homes, shelters, and any other such institution that wants them to benefit the general public. My family understands my wishes on the matter and they get the task of divvying it all up.

Until then, however, I am going to enjoy this hobby as fully as I can for as long as I can. Seeing the movie even just once in the best quality possible more than justifies the price to me. I have no regrets amassing the collection that I have, and ever adding to it, and when I can no longer enjoy it others can.

I am not the biggest Star Wars fan, thus my lack of interest in the Baby Yoda Show, but I will upgrade these movies to 4K as I feel like it. Acquiring titles that I do not own at all will take precedence.

My entire music collection, which has plenty of variety, has been ripped to a solid state hard drive and I can either listen to it over my network or I can still play the CD itself. It offers me all of the core benefits of an Alexa without the risk of being spied upon. If I wanted to stream music from a service for a wider selection I would choose one that did not involve planting another listening device in my home.

Despite my time in the Army where it seemed like everyone got a tattoo out of boredom if nothing else, I resisted the peer pressure and did not get any. I have never had the desire to get one and I find them to be almost universally unattractive, especially as the recipient ages; they wind up looking like varicose veins and bruises that won't heal. Just my opinion; it does not bother me that others get them, but I never will.

[gotmule]

Another issue is the things I like changes constantly. It's the same reason why owning Alexa is better for me, than owning a physical music collection. One minute I'm into Jazz and the next Pop. I often buy something and then think, yeah I don't know if I really like that now! Then I sell it and lose money. This is why i would never get a tattoo, I'm indecisive and a week later I'd be thinking, argh! What is this monstrosity on my arm![/QUOTE]

I can look at that from the other possibility happening, as I have several bands or CDs in my collection that I have fallen in love with 10-20-30 years later, when I originally dismissed it when I bought it back in the day.

As far as tattoos go (I have 5) I always thought about being a 70 yr old Dude with the tattoo and not only would it still make sense, but how would it look as my gravity impacts what kind of shape I am in. I actually had an appointment last week to get another one, but that is now put on hold for a bit since personal space is thrown out the window when someone is working on you.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by SCLee

I respect your opinion but this isn't my experience of streaming. Just today, I played several Dolby Vision titles on Disney+ to test them, and they looked stunning on an OLED TV. I could see none of the issues you mentioned. Granted this is a 55 inch TV and not a projector / 85 inch screen.

Just curious, has your TV been professionally calibrated? If not, do you have it set to the equivalent of Filmmaker Mode (info here)?

Think you have seen the best that BD or UHD BD offers? If you have viewed on a Sony BVM-X310 then you have (info here).

A review of the BVM-X300:

YouTube

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Seeing the movie even just once in the best quality possible more than justifies the price to me. I have no regrets amassing the collection that I have, and ever adding to it, and when I can no longer enjoy it others can.

My entire music collection, which has plenty of variety, has been ripped to a solid state hard drive and I can either listen to it over my network or I can still play the CD itself. It offers me all of the core benefits of an Alexa without the risk of being spied upon. If I wanted to stream music from a service for a wider selection I would choose one that did not involve planting another listening device in my home.

You can mute the microphone or unplug it, if you don't want to use it, and you can see what the device has recorded through your app. If you didn't have all of those expensive discs around, maybe it wouldn't matter as much! I'm just joshing, I know you love them! I've had Alexa for about two years now and it would be hard to part with that convenience. It's great at Christmas to play Christmas music and while washing up, in fact, any time.

I was thinking of getting back into Vinyl but I just know it will get out of hand, and like the physical movies, it will end up sitting there.

As for the films. To me, it's the opposite, I cancelled my Knives Out 4K first Edition because it's £24.99. I've already seen it at the cinema and so (if i bought it to own) the likelihood is I'm only gonna watch it once. Given the amount of physical media I own / streaming services. I would be better renting it in 4K.

[SCLee]

GOTMULE.

You can still listen to an entire CD on Alexa or any other streaming music service. I get what you're saying but I rarely have the time to sit down and listen to a full album, especially albums I'm 50 / 50 on.

RE: the tat. Ah, yes, this damn virus is affecting everything! I was gonna say apart from streaming, but no even that!

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Just curious, has your TV been professionally calibrated?

It has. Thanks for the links. I've seen some videos from his channel in the past.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by SCLee

You can mute the microphone or unplug it, if you don't want to use it, and you can see what the device has recorded through your app. If you didn't have all of those expensive discs around, maybe it wouldn't matter as much! I'm just joshing, I know you love them! I've had Alexa for about two years now and it would be hard to part with that convenience. It's great at Christmas to play Christmas music and while washing up, in fact, any time.

I was thinking of getting back into Vinyl but I just know it will get out of hand, and like the physical movies, it will end up sitting there.

As for the films. To me, it's the opposite, I cancelled my Knives Out 4K first Edition because it's £24.99. I've already seen it at the cinema and so (if i bought it to own) the likelihood is I'm only gonna watch it once. Given the amount of physical media I own / streaming services. I would be better renting it in 4K.

Alexa only offers me voice command over tasks that I can easily perform already and that is not enough reason for me to buy one; it offers me no new functionality, but just a silly level of convenience that I do not need. I never even once used the voice features of my TV's remotes as I don't see any need for them, either.

If I saw a film at the cinema that I really enjoyed, I would definitely buy it on disc in case I did want to see it again and possibly for the extra features that were not offered at the theater.

I was never a fan of vinyl and I grew up with it. It is too hard to take care of and it is very easy to damage. The only thing that I liked about vinyl was the large cool cover art. CD cover art is a joke.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Think you have seen the best that BD or UHD BD offers? If you have viewed on a Sony BVM-X310 then you have (info here).

A review of the BVM-X300:

YouTube

I need that display to play my 8 bit Nintendo games on.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Alexa only offers me voice command over tasks that I can easily perform already and that is not enough reason for me to buy one; it offers me no new functionality, but just a silly level of convenience that I do not need. I never even once used the voice features of my TV's remotes as I don't see any need for them, either.

If I saw a film at the cinema that I really enjoyed, I would definitely buy it on disc in case I did want to see it again and possibly for the extra features that were not offered at the theater.

I was never a fan of vinyl and I grew up with it. It is too hard to take care of and it is very easy to damage. The only thing that I liked about vinyl was the large cool cover art. CD cover art is a joke.

It's different from voice controlling a TV, I never use that either, it's too much hassle. But Alexa simplifies your life, play any song from any album using your voice. Unplug and take it to another room, it stays connected. No need for any physical collection.

That's good in theory but I never seem to watch the extras, there are extras on Disney+ but not as many as the disc offers. Just in case is starting to feel unnecessary to me, I could save money and rent it, if I really wanna see it, which is unlikely with the amount of content out there. I'm not saying I wanna get rid of all my physical media - I like having Mission Impossible 1 - 6 and Bourne etc... but I'll likely sell the Marvel / Disney stuff now. Yes, the picture quality on disc is better but honestly, it's not night and day, it's minor. I tested Toy Story today on both.

That's my main reason for wanting it back, the artwork! Although there's something nice about taking the record out and placing that needle! But as you said it's a pain in the arse, you have to clean the records, they skip and you have to replace the needle.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by SCLee

It's different from voice controlling a TV, I never use that either, it's too much hassle. But Alexa simplifies your life, play any song from any album using your voice. Unplug and take it to another room, it stays connected. No need for any physical collection.

That's good in theory but I never seem to watch the extras, there are extras on Disney+ but not as many as the disc offers. Just in case is starting to feel unnecessary to me, I could save money and rent it, if I really wanna see it, which is unlikely with the amount of content out there. I'm not saying I wanna get rid of all my physical media - I like having Mission Impossible 1 - 6 and Bourne etc... but I'll likely sell the Marvel / Disney stuff now.

That's my main reason for wanting it back, the artwork! Although there's something nice about taking the record out and placing that needle! But as you said it's a pain in the arse, you have to clean the records, they skip and you have to replace the needle.

I don't want to voice my desires aloud and the moment Alexa misunderstood what I said and played the wrong song, or said "I didn't get that", I'd likely throw her ass right out the door.

I am way, way behind on watching my Marvel movies; they have made so many so fast that I kind of got burnt out on even the idea of them, but someday I will have a "men in tights, women in spandex" marathon.

I do not missing taking the record out, nearly or actually letting it slip out of my butter fingered grasp, only to then accidentally drop the tonearm onto the album at the wrong spot. I still have, and remember hating to use, those silly velvet brushes to clean the album. No thanks, been there done that, not doing it again.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I don't want to voice my desires aloud and the moment Alexa misunderstood what I said and played the wrong song, or said "I didn't get that", I'd likely throw her ass right out the door.

I am way, way behind on watching my Marvel movies; they have made so many so fast that I kind of got burnt out on even the idea of them, but someday I will have a "men in tights, women in spandex" marathon.

I do not missing taking the record out, nearly or actually letting it slip out of my butter fingered grasp, only to then accidentally drop the tonearm onto the album at the wrong spot. I still have, and remember hating to use, those silly velvet brushes to clean the album. No thanks, been there done that, not doing it again.

LOL! Do you do the same thing with women?

I've seen the Marvel films too much now, especially the X-Men films, which is another reason I wanna part with them. I do enjoy them but they get repetitive fast. Some guy saw Endgame over 200 times at the cinema, which is nuts to me, as I've only seen that film once. I've seen Infinity War twice. Those I do keep meaning to see again but I never seem to find the time.

Ah, well you see, some Vinyl enthusiasts would say it's not music unless it's played that way! Because it sounds better and it's a proper collection. I too grew up with some Vinyl in the 80's. I remember dropping the needle in the wrong place too.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by SCLee

LOL! Do you do the same thing with women?

I've seen the Marvel films too much now, especially the X-Men films, which is another reason I wanna part with them. I do enjoy them but they get repetitive fast. Some guy saw Endgame over 200 times at the cinema, which is nuts to me, as I've only seen that film once. I've seen Infinity War twice. Those I do keep meaning to see again but I never seem to find the time.

Ah, well you see, some Vinyl enthusiasts would say it's not music unless it's played that way! Because it sounds better and it's a proper collection. I too grew up with some Vinyl in the 80's. I remember dropping the needle in the wrong place too.

I have never bodily thrown anyone out the door, but that courtesy does not extend to inanimate objects masquerading as women.

I marvel at the fact that I own them all, and many in 3D, but still have seen so few of them. The ones that I have seen are mostly fun, but they are also so unintentionally silly that I have a hard time seeing them as anything but comedies.

I am not going to debate this, but I have never agreed that vinyl sounds better. It didn't then and it doesn't now and I have spoken and that is that, fini, the end.