Midnight Cowboy (1969)

[Thomas Irwin]

Originally Posted by malakaheso

For all of you guys saying this is how the film is meant to look, I agree wholeheatedly. This guy agrees too:

And don't forget this guy.

[Fat Phil]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

I can't say with any authority what films looked like in the 60s and 70s because I wasn't around, so all I can go by are VHS tapes and old DVDs that I've seen. And using those as a benchmark as to how films should look really isn't a reliable method. I'm much more inclined to believe that these newer 4K remasters are far more accurate than any of those are.

That being said, I know there are releases out there that have been given weird colour gradings (the infamous yellow version of The Good, The Bad and the Ugly being one) but I just don't see that here.

In looking at the blu-ray.com caps, which I consider to be more reliable than DVD Beaver, there is nothing that looks teal to me. Look at this cap for example:

[Show spoiler]

There are various shades of white in that picture that look like they should. If there was a teal wash on this transfer, I would expect her coat and the walls to have a bluish tint to them but I'm not seeing that at all.

I'm not seeing anything of major concern here either. The majority of the Criterion caps look absolutely fine - gorgeous even. Only a few exhibit a drastic tealinisation (that's totally a word, but don't look it up using a dictionary or anything )

It does not look like some oppressive blanket teal across the entire movie. Taking the caps as a whole it looks like each scene has been carefully graded.

I understand the grumbling though - it is quite jarring change from the original blu-ray, but one hopes that under the supervision of the DP presumably referring to an answer print, this would be a (more) faithful representation of the original theatrical experience.

My pre-order stands. The MGM blu-ray is still readily available if I don't like what I see in motion

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by malakaheso

For all of you guys saying this is how the film is meant to look, I agree wholeheatedly. This guy agrees too:

[Show spoiler]

[Show spoiler]

Originally Posted by Thomas Irwin

And don't forget this guy.

Very amusing guys, but instead of being flippant why don't you grab one of the caps from the blu-ray.com review and show me where you're seeing the kind of teal look that you'd see in that King and I example?

I'm just a layman like the rest of you and I do see a bit of green in a few shots (such as in the diner, and inside the bus) that I think can be attributed to other factors, but I'm not seeing any sort of overall blue cast that I associate with something being "tealed". If you're an expert and can point out the signs, then I'll happily concede.

[Stationary Explorer]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

Very amusing guys, but instead of being flippant why don't you grab one of the caps from the blu-ray.com review and show me where you're seeing the kind of teal look that you'd see in that King and I example?

I'm just a layman like the rest of you and I do see a bit of green in a few shots (such as in the diner, and inside the bus) that I think can be attributed to other factors, but I'm not seeing any sort of overall blue cast that I associate with something being "tealed". If you're an expert and can point out the signs, then I'll happily concede.

Maybe they are running along side the Chicago River on St. Patrick's day. ?

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by Stationary Explorer

Maybe they are running along side the Chicago River on St. Patrick's day. ?

Or, it could be that depending on the conditions, the closer you get to shore the greener the ocean looks, even in Miami Beach:

[Fat Phil]

I see one of the new special features is -

Adam Holender - in this brand new video essay, cinematographer Adam Holender discusses in great detail the visual style of Midnight Cowboy and specifically how light was treated in various key sequences to get the right ambience. Also, there are excellent comments about specific location shots as well as unique lensing choices. Fantastic information. The essay was created exclusively for Criterion in February 2018. In English, not subtitled. (26 min).

It'll be interesting to see if this sheds any light on this newest presentation. Look forward to checking it out.



*Also, can I just say that I love the fact a photograph of a Pelican has been posted in the Midnight Cowboy thread during the course of debate. Just seems so wonderfully bizarre to me . That is all.

[spatafore]

is this digipack, kind of boxset or standard scanavo plastic case?

[Dailyan]

Originally Posted by spatafore

is this digipack, kind of boxset or standard scanavo plastic case?

Most likely standard scanavo plastic case.

[Thomas Irwin]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

Very amusing guys, but instead of being flippant why don't you grab one of the caps from the blu-ray.com review and show me where you're seeing the kind of teal look that you'd see in that King and I example?

I'm just a layman like the rest of you and I do see a bit of green in a few shots (such as in the diner, and inside the bus) that I think can be attributed to other factors, but I'm not seeing any sort of overall blue cast that I associate with something being "tealed". If you're an expert and can point out the signs, then I'll happily concede.

Overall, the screen caps look excellent to me. That's why certain scenes, such as the diner, seem so peculiar. It is certainly not a universal issue, in my opinion, but some of the caps look unnaturally green to me. On the other hand, whites, for instance, seem very natural, and skin tones don't seem to be affected at all either. It's been a while since I've seen this film, so I couldn't really comment on what I remember from previous viewings. I'm very much looking forward to picking this up, I'm just not sure what to make of some of the, primarily indoor, palettes.

[20th Century Boy]

Saying the grain and detail is improved is one thing. Saying this isn't another teal blanket fest is gaslighting. If you're fine with it, more power to you. That's cool. I get it. But don't seriously suggest it isn't there. CC isn't infallible.

[20th Century Boy]

Originally Posted by Markgway

No, of course not. It just felt like one poster was being ganged up on because he dared to disagree.

I disagree with you about the colour of the skies in those caps, but that's OK, right?

In all other respects I think the Criterion looks better. But unless someone can say for sure that the film was meant to look teal, I'm going to assume something is awry.

It happens too many times that older films are remastered to a modern grading standard and wind up looking suspiciously different to the way they had before.

Teal and orange are pervasive today -- was that the case in the 60s and 70s?

I watched the remake of The Magnificent Seven yesterday and the image was so manipulated toward orange and teal it was ugly IMHO.

This.

I can't be certain about many films, but I SERIOUSLY doubt, knowing studio's tendency to fudge old titles with new trendy practices (DNR & EE anyone?) that they wouldn't try to shoehorn the new two-tone Orange & Teal trend onto older films.

My closest friend is a professional DP, and when I show him some of these new teal-ized versions he does a double-take.

[myway]

I actually agree that the Trailer looks good! But just like others are saying, it's OK so say that this transfer has its pluses & minuses. Larger issue though; when will Criterion focus on its catalog of DVDs that have never had any blu-ray release? And before someone tells me that they can only license a pre-existing transfer, I'll just say that I can think of plenty other movies where the Criterion bd is the only one available. They didn't always just take an existing bd, futz around with the transfer and then slap a documentary on it.

[The Sovereign]

Originally Posted by Dave Mack

The clips in the Criterion Trailer look wonderful imho

It looks outstanding. I have the MGM, but I'll be buying the Criterion on day one of the Barnes & Noble sale.

[MifuneFan]

Not to upset people, but that trailer is not using the same transfer as the Criterion BD.

[Dailyan]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Not to upset people, but that trailer is not using the same transfer as the Criterion BD.

I’m fairly certain it’s the old MGM release they’re using.

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by 20th Century Boy

Saying the grain and detail is improved is one thing. Saying this isn't another teal blanket fest is gaslighting. If you're fine with it, more power to you. That's cool. I get it. But don't seriously suggest it isn't there. CC isn't infallible.

Like I said earlier, post a cap from this site’s review and point out where you’re seeing the teal blanket because I’d really like to know what I’m missing.

It has nothing to do with Criterion being infallible or not.

[I KEEL YOU]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

Like I said earlier, post a cap from this site’s review and point out where you’re seeing the teal blanket because I’d really like to know what I’m missing.

Not that I think that it will matter to you because I can see that you're ferociously fighting the good fight and you'll just find some new excuse, but for those who are more objective, here's a screencap from this site, with a color sample taken from a shirt that is clearly supposed to be white:



This is the color from the black square:



And this is what white looks like:



If you don't believe me, feel free to do the color sampling yourself.

[captainjoe]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

Not that I think that it will matter to you because I can see that you're ferociously fighting the good fight and you'll just find some new excuse, but for those who are more objective, here's a screencap from this site, with a color sample taken from a shirt that is clearly supposed to be white:



This is the color from the black square:



And this is what white looks like:



If you don't believe me, feel free to do the color sampling yourself.

Fluorescent lighting bro

[AnamorphicWidescreen]

I've been a huge fan of MC for years. And, I just recently re-watched the film on the 2011 Blu.

And - after seeing the trailer for the Criterion Blu-ray (several posts back), I honestly cannot see a significant difference between the 2011 Blu & the PQ/color of this new Criterion Blu.

[I KEEL YOU]

Originally Posted by captainjoe

Fluorescent lighting bro

Yeah, the sunlight that is clearly piercing through the window on the left side of the shot sure is fluorescent.