Dolby Atmos coming soon for home use

[slimdude]

This is Onkyo's first Dolby Atmos Receiver, displaying the front, and rear of the unit.

http://www.insideci.co.uk/news/onkyo...-speakers.aspx

[samlop10]

So I'm watching Fallen with my Onkyo receiver and when I clicked display twice this appeared (attached picture):

Notice the 5.1.0? I wonder what that is about.

[HDTV1080P]

About a week ago I helped a family member wire for 15.2 surround sound using 10/2 gauge in wall speaker wire to 15 speaker locations (This is before I even knew about Dolby ATMOS being released for the home market). I had no idea that 32 channel Dolby Atmos A/V receivers are being designed until I read a new article that was released today (HDMI 2.0 is what is limiting Dolby ATMOS to 32 audio channels, a newer version of HDMI could offer 128 discrete audio tracks with up to 64 unique speaker locations). Now I wish I would have used 12/4 gauge or 14/4 gauge speaker wire to 16 speaker jack locations. With 12/4 gauge speaker wire to 16 locations one would be good for up to 32 speakers plus two subwoofers with two RG-11 cable runs. Worse case scenario is I could always remodel again, right now I can easily do 16.2 Dolby Atmos by adding one more speaker wire. That would be half the audio channels that Dolby Atmos offers. I almost was going to run 12/4 or 14/4 to 15 locations instead of 10/2, however at the time of the remodeling I thought 10/2 to 15 locations would be good enough for any future audio format.

The price of the first generation Dolby Atmos A/V receivers that support 32 audio channels might start at $15,000+ if they are full power 32 channel amps. Entry level for Dolby Atmos only requires a basic 5.1 speaker system plus 2 height speakers.

Dolby ATMOS is a non-issue until the studios start releasing Blu-ray titles with Dolby Atmos soundtracks. The big question will be how many audio channels will the Dolby Atmos soundtracks be? I cannot picture the studios using all 32 native channels. Maybe the studios will start off with native 9.1 or native 11.1 and getting a 32 channel A/V receiver would just triple repeat each of the native 11 channels to reach around 32 or 33 channels. Therefore, if the studios only make 11.1 Dolby TrueHD soundtracks with Dolby Atmos, then the only reason to purchase a 32 channel A/V receiver would be for consumers that have a huge home theater room where most the speakers would be duplicated 3 times. Until there are 100+ Dolby Atmos Blu-ray titles released, the average consumer is not going to upgrade their equipment to play this niche audio format. I am wondering if the Dolby Atmos feature for the lossy Dolby Digital Plus streaming soundtracks will be similar to matrix soundtracks instead of discrete soundtracks, since streaming providers might not want to dedicate more bandwidth for extra discrete channels.

I may wait until 100+ Dolby Atmos Blu-ray titles are released before upgrading my A/V receiver.

There is already over 100 movies that have been released in the commercial movie theater with a Dolby ATMOS soundtrack. These movies could be released or re-released on Blu-ray with a Dolby ATMOS soundtrack.

Dolby Atmos Movies

Until Dolby ATMOS 32.1 channel A/V receivers are released, the consumer market will be limited to a maximum of 11.1 channel Dolby ATMOS A/V receivers. 7.1 channel Dolby Atmos A/V receivers will be the entry level.

Click here for more information about speaker configuration for a 7.1 channel, 9.1 channel, and 11.1 channel Dolby Atmos A/V receiver

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by samlop10

So I'm watching Fallen with my Onkyo receiver and when I clicked display twice this appeared (attached picture):

Notice the 5.1.0? I wonder what that is about.

Did it not state that before on other titles? It could be new channel metadata within the DTS stream when they mastered the disc. DTS Master Audio will be the carrier for DTS-UHD just like Dolby TrueHD will be the carrier for Atmos.

5.1.0 could correlate to Five Mains, One LFE, No Overheads.

[samlop10]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

Did it not state that before on other titles? It could be new channel metadata within the DTS stream when they mastered the disc. DTS Master Audio will be the carrier for DTS-UHD just like Dolby TrueHD will be the carrier for Atmos.

5.1.0 could correlate to Five Mains, One LFE, No Overheads.

I barely got the receiver on Saturday and left to visit my parents over the weekend. I am barely using it for the first time. So then it already has the ability to decode DTS-UHD?

To be honest I barely know a thing about DTS-UHD; I know more about Atmos . Is that format already ready to be used in blu ray?

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by samlop10

I barely got the receiver on Saturday and left to visit my parents over the weekend. I am barely using it for the first time. So then it already has the ability to decode DTS-UHD?

To be honest I barely know a thing about DTS-UHD; I know more about Atmos . Is that format already ready to be used in blu ray?

No, it's not. DTS-UHD (another object surround format like Atmos) has not yet been formally announced, but will also be available on Blu-ray if studios and hardware manufacturers decide to support it.

I couldn't tell you if that is a normal channel designation for that particular receiver or not.

[samlop10]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

No, it's not. DTS-UHD (another object surround format like Atmos) has not yet been formally announced, but will also be available on Blu-ray if studios and hardware manufacturers decide to support it.

I couldn't tell you if that is a normal channel designation for that particular receiver or not.

Weird. I looked in the manual but could not find anything.

[kenoh]

Originally Posted by slimdude

right now I can easily do 16.2 Dolby Atmos by adding one more speaker wire. That would be half the audio channels that Dolby Atmos offers.

I only plan on doing maybe half the specification because that's all I have room for and that's stretching it!

Originally Posted by slimdude

The price of the first generation Dolby Atmos A/V receivers that support 32 audio channels might start at $15,000+ if they are full power 32 channel amps.

Well, I'll never be able to afford one any time soon! If they where smart they would try making receivers with 16.2 channels and cutting the price by over half, down to around ($5000), for a very high end semi flagship series. That way 16.1 channels can be the new (5.1) and 32.1 channels can be the new (7.1)

Originally Posted by slimdude

Dolby ATMOS is a non-issue until the studios start releasing Blu-ray titles with Dolby Atmos soundtracks. The big question will be how many audio channels will the Dolby Atmos soundtracks be?

I'm hoping for the full specification but if they can't because of space constraints, then I want minimum 11.1 surround. Although I hear Sony and Panasonic are working on making 300gb Blu-Ray discs, so we may have to wait till those come out before the have full specification?

Originally Posted by slimdude

Until there are 100+ Dolby Atmos Blu-ray titles released, the average consumer is not going to upgrade their equipment to play this niche audio format.

Funny, because there will be over 100+ movies with Atmos support by the end of the year! But of course they won't release them all within a few month's, so I'd say give it till the end of 2015 and there's your 100+ movies available to purchase!

Originally Posted by slimdude

I am wondering if the Dolby Atmos feature for the lossy Dolby Digital Plus streaming soundtracks will be similar to matrix soundtracks instead of discrete soundtracks, since streaming providers might not want to dedicate more bandwidth for extra discrete channels.

God I hope not!

Originally Posted by slimdude

There is already over 100 movies that have been released in the commercial movie theater with a Dolby ATMOS soundtrack. These movies could be released or re-released on Blu-ray with a Dolby ATMOS soundtrack.

Exactly! But don't forget there are movies with Aurora 3D support that can be converted over to Atmos, so that adds even more support to that growing library!

Originally Posted by slimdude

Until Dolby ATMOS 32.1 channel A/V receivers are released, the consumer market will be limited to a maximum of 11.1 channel Dolby ATMOS A/V receivers.

I thought Denon is releasing a Flagship with 13.4 channel support?

[dickdarlington]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

The Frozen 2D Blu-ray was pretty sparse in and of itself with few extras... and Frozen was one of Disney's highest grossing animated films ever.

A super-duper edition for the holidays with 2D + 3D discs, extras, and a new Atmos track on both versions would seem like a smart marketing move for all parties involved (Dolby included).

The extras that should have been released already were probably done months and months ago. Check. A 3D encode was already completed and released to Europe and Asia. Check. All that's left is a supervised home Atmos remix and encoding.

Frozen will be getting a re-release on Blu-ray in Region A in October with that 3D encode everyone wants amongst newly created bonus material not available on any release yet.

[HDTV1080P]

I could not find any information on the A/V receiver that supports 13 channel Dolby Atmos. Maybe I did not use the keywords needed when searching online.

[HDTV1080P]

For an 11 channel A/V receiver here are the two different speaker configurations one can use:


7.1.4 Configuration (7.1 speaker system plus 4 ceiling speakers)



9.1.2 Configuration (9.1 speaker system plus 2 ceiling speakers)



The existing wiring I did would work fine for a 7.1 speaker system plus 4 ceiling speakers. The 9.1 speaker system plus 2 ceiling speakers has an extra set of front left and right speakers that are on the side of the room.

For those consumers that are not able to run ceiling speakers or height speakers, then the following are a couple of 11 channel configurations that use add on speaker modules that connect to the top of existing floor speakers. The add on speaker modules are pointed directly at the ceiling so that the sound can bounce off the ceiling.



7.1.4 Configuration


9.1.2 Configuration

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Dubstar

oh and yes - that too, but the core mix was 5.1 - there were no additional surround sound stems

Atmos can be downmixed on the fly to 7.1 (or 5.1 or stereo for that matter).

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by samlop10

So I'm watching Fallen with my Onkyo receiver and when I clicked display twice this appeared (attached picture):

Notice the 5.1.0? I wonder what that is about.

Which model do you have?

Does it have DTS NEO-X?

[kenoh]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

I could not find any information on the A/V receiver that supports 13 channel Dolby Atmos. Maybe I did not use the keywords needed when searching online.

Here it is, sorry I believe it was 13.2, so basically 9.4ch, four height and two wide like in the diagram you showed? The two extra channels are available through pre-outs. There isn't much information regarding the Denon AVR-X7200W so I understand!

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...r-details.html

By the way I'm really hoping for the full Specification because currently announced receivers don't have rear center channel support like some 6ch movies do and

As for more movies coming out , there have been 26 films (including 2015 announced films) mixed in Auro-3D Barco 11.1, not including Atmos!

[samlop10]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Which model do you have?

Does it have DTS NEO-X?

It does not have DTS NEO-X (neither the manual nor the box say it does). It is an Onkyo TX-NR636. It is not even the higher-end ones. I do know it is one of the models to receive the Atmos update but that is until September last thing I heard. I am thinking that maybe it was just a preloaded setting which Onkyo put there knowing beforehand they would give an Atmos update in the future.

[kenoh]

This is how I want my dream system to be:http://www.avforums.com/attachments/...19-jpg.426385/

What I really want from this setup is one rear center channel speaker, two wide ch speakers and two height ch speakers, as those will get the most use along with the main 7.1 surround system!

What I like most about Atmos having 32 channel support is the fact that you can have any configuration you want and still get precise surround sound because it's object based audio!

Say you don't have all 32 speakers, say you only have 9/11 speakers, well you wouldn't have to worry about downmixing causing the source to sound unnatural or the sound system as a whole to sound uneven because that's the beauty of Object Based audio!

Whether or not you have all 32 speakers does not hinder the surround sound experience or quality and what ever setup you have will sound like it was native all along!

Object Based Audio is the new standard. The future of audio. Nothing can stop this train not even Densel!

[BozQ]

Originally Posted by sega3dmm

Have you actually listened to both Auro and Atmos? I am curious, because I have and the clear winner in my opinion is Atmos. Could be a preference.

I view Auro as more of an extension of 5.1, while Atmos reinvents how movie sound is planned and used. I think of traditional 5.1 as an equivalent to 480p video. It's a standard that can be done either really well (point in case: The Lego Movie) or not so well (any Michael Bay film). Auro 11.1 is basically like 1080p video, it has all the aesthetics of a 5.1 mix, but with added depth and clarity, as well as minimal height activity (too much height is overkill, as stated by Auro experts themselves).

I may be a bit biased and a romantacist, but I will say the equivalent to Dolby Atmos is 70mm film. There, I said it. However, the diet version of Atmos for home consumers is like 720p video, at least what I've read about it.

Oddly enough, am I the only one who thinks Diet Auro will sound better than Diet Atmos? Just the 9.1 Auro configuration seems fine, and there is an odd chance that Auro for the home would be a better solution because you won't lose much from a theatrical 11.1 mix to 9.1 than a theatrical Atmos mix to 9.1.4X whatever.

I pretty much agree until you mentioned "Diet Atmos."
If done right, I think Atmos for home as a format, will deliver. It is only limited by the hardware receivers can offer. Currently, it looks like the first wave of Atmos receivers will offer 12 channels of audio. In various configurations. I can understand why Dolby recommends 7.1.4
Most of the Atmos sound mixes uses a 7.1 sound bed. Having a 7.1 original setup means no down or up mixing of the soundtrack is necessary. While 4 height channels allows for the most complete surround coverage.

The difference between Auro 11.1 and 9.1 is quite significant.
Auro 11.1 consists of your regular 5.1 plus its height satellite channels and an overhead (or VOG/Voice of God) channel. FL, FC, FR, LFE, SL, SR, FLh, FCh, FRh, SLh, SRh and OvH.


You're missing out on the Front-Center Height and Overhead channel with Auro 9.1. Honestly, I wouldn't be able to truly accept it, it's like down mixing 7.1 to 5.1 on regular Blu-ray.

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

Home Atmos, from what I'm getting from some of the more "in the know" people at AVS Forum has a base channel bed of 5.1 or 7.1 (cinema Atmos has 7.1 or 9.1) and then whatever X amount of objects Dolby allows (I doubt it's the full 128 - since there's 34 outputs, I'm sure there's a smaller amount of objects too).

So the movie isn't really "encoded" for an x number of speakers (of course, it's no less than the base channel bed)... as long as the Atmos renderer conforms to Dolby standards.

Once 3D positional calibration, similar to Dolby's Lake or Trinnov's format, is more readily available, the renderer will map the bed and objects to your particular layout and customize the mix for your room just like at an Atmos cinema.

Current 1st gen. products are a bit hampered. The home A/V companies wanted to be first... not best.

I think 128 objects will still be part of the specs. It will be counter-productive to reduce the number of objects just for the home version. But decoding it to deliver on a configuration will be limited to the receivers, which is not a problem considering how flexible the Atmos format can fit itself into a number of configurations.

[pentatonic]

Originally Posted by kenoh

This is how I want my dream system to be:http://www.avforums.com/attachments/...19-jpg.426385/

What I really want from this setup is one rear center channel speaker, two wide ch speakers and two height ch speakers, as those will get the most use along with the main 7.1 surround system!

What I like most about Atmos having 32 channel support is the fact that you can have any configuration you want and still get precise surround sound because it's object based audio!

Say you don't have all 32 speakers, say you only have 9/11 speakers, well you wouldn't have to worry about downmixing causing the source to sound unnatural or the sound system as a whole to sound uneven because that's the beauty of Object Based audio!

Whether or not you have all 32 speakers does not hinder the surround sound experience or quality and what ever setup you have will sound like it was native all along!

Object Based Audio is the new standard. The future of audio. Nothing can stop this train not even Densel!

I was going to say, many don't understand the concept of Object Based sound. The encoding bitstreamed only tells the avr what the object is (that particular sound) and where it goes in the soundfield, like coordinates if you will. Then the receiver uses the speakers it has to place that object. Obviously the more speakers, the better distribution, but in all honesty, for the size rooms we find here, 4 ceiling (Height) speakers would be plenty, you couldn't even setup 32 in our rooms. They might use up to 64 in theaters but those are huge, in height, width and depth.

It has even been mentioned on Dolby's site that the 7.1.4 would be just right, and since they will show up in the top 2-3 avrs, their price should stay similar to the models they are replacing. The only new expense is this new decoder and I'd bet it's software, as you can't hard wire something that adapts like this.

For someone like us who was upgrading anyways because of HDMI 2 and looking at the nicer avrs would probably not have much more to buy than the other 4 speakers, and with the special ones that sit atop of your main 4, it's only a question of possibly $1k more, which would be cheap enough for me to consider if I were changing now.

[kenoh]

Originally Posted by pentatonic

The encoding bitstreamed only tells the avr what the object is (that particular sound) and where it goes in the soundfield, like coordinates if you will. Then the receiver uses the speakers it has to place that object.

That's what I mean, it's more precise at distributing the sound whether you have 32 speakers or not! Now more speakers mean more immersion but that doesn't mean it wouldn't sound just as good if your in a small/medium space using less speakers then what the source is actually encoded in.

Say you don't have any height speakers but the source requires them for the full experience? Then the decoder will have to assign the sounds accurately through the rest of the system so it doesn't sound unnatural, for example, 128 audio sources being outputted accurately through a 7.1 surround system, without proper downmixing there would be missing audio!

[slimdude]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Atmos can be downmixed on the fly to 7.1 (or 5.1 or stereo for that matter).

What's the use of listening to a Dolby Atmos soundtrack in 7.1? It will just be equivalent to Dolby TrueHD 7.1, not real Dolby Atmos sound. A person won't need a Dolby Atmos receiver, if that's the case.