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Old 01-18-2017, 07:42 AM   #1
levcore levcore is online now
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Default LG OLED 3D vs LG 3D (advice required for new 3D TV)

Hello could I please have a simple explanation of the differences between LG OLED 3D and just a normal LG 3D? With recent developments I am going to have to buy a reserve set way sooner than I had planned. There are some LG models I am eyeing up, one is OLED. The OLED is 900 more expensive so I really need to know what the benefits are and what I would miss out on if I just bought the standard LG.

I think it's also worth adding that the OLED is curved whereas the others are not. Advantages/ disadvantages of this? Perhaps a flat tv would be better?

I would have posted this in the other LG thread but there are so many pages and the discussion is moving so quickly I thought I'd start a new thread. It also might help anyone else on the fence about picking up a new 3D set.

Here are the links if it helps:

The curved OLED:
http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/tv-and-...46146-pdt.html

Not OLED (flat not curved):
http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/tv-and-...44281-pdt.html

Not OLED:
http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/tv-and-...44280-pdt.html

Any help and advice is greatly appreciated!

Last edited by levcore; 01-18-2017 at 07:57 AM.
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Old 01-18-2017, 08:11 AM   #2
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OLED's have deeper blacks and better contrast than the normal LCD LG 3D TV's. This helps tremendously in both 2-D and 3-D. Content on higher contrast displays look "sharper" and "more detailed" since the differences between light and dark shades are easier for the eyes to distinguish.

It's the difference between watching 3-D from laser projectors at the newer laser IMAX and laser Dolby Cinema's and the typical lamp-based DLP projectors at a local cinema.

These deep blacks are most beneficial for content that is a bit darker than the normal. Sin City: A Dame to Kill For will benefit more from OLED than a brighter CGI title like Zootopia.
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Old 01-18-2017, 12:01 PM   #3
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Thanks for the information revgen, that's extremely helpful. So can you offer advice as to the benefits/ disadvantages of a curved screen as opposed to a standard flat screen? Annoyingly the cheapest, biggest OLED I can find within my price range is curved (the model I linked to above).
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Old 01-18-2017, 01:55 PM   #4
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Levcore, after reading this I personally decided that the curved screen would not work for me.
http://www.trustedreviews.com/opinio...-pros-and-cons
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Old 01-18-2017, 02:19 PM   #5
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I also paid a massive premium NOT to have a curved screen. As far as I can tell, there are no benefits, only disadvantages.
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Old 01-18-2017, 02:19 PM   #6
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I have a curved screen LG OLED. The curve is so minor, it hardly makes a difference in everyday viewing. When you are sitting at normal distance, you hardly notice it and you will quickly forget its even curved. When watching from an extreme angle, the curve sorta helps you see the opposite corner of screen better.

The only other thing the curve really does is change how lights reflect off the TV. This isn't better or worse, just different based on where you are sitting and what sort of lights hit the TV.

On OLED TV, black is black, because the pixels are shut off. I was watching Robinson Crusoe 3D the other day and when the picture faded to black, my room was pitch black. You couldn't see a thing including the TV. This makes a bigger difference in a sharp detailed picture than pixels count.

That being said if you watch movies in a dark theater like environment, oled is the way to go. If you watch with the windows open during daytime, then you will not be able to see this benefit.

All LG LCD panels are IPS which mean they have poorer contrast than most LCD TVs which are VA. The trade off in contrast allows for better viewing angles at the expense of deep blacks. Think of a sports bar that only watches bright sports content, they need the wide viewing angles so people sitting around the bar can all see the same TV.

Why does LG use IPS vs VA like 95% of other LCD manufacturers, LG invented IPS and owns the trademark on the IPS name. They are still doing some R&D with these TVs as the contrast level is incrementally increasing every year but still nothing close to a VA panel. OLED is infinite contrast since the pixels shut off, IPS is now at 1200:1 (up from 1000:1 a few years back and 800:1 years before that) and VA ranges from 5000:1-7000:1 (up from 3000:1 a few years back). The higher the contrast value, the darker the panel can get.

tldr; for a dark viewing environment, get OLED; for a bright environment, get LCD, both will have wide viewing angles

-------
I would never pay a premium for a non curved screen over a curved screen after owning this one for a year and a half. I've see no practical disadvantage in viewing this TV over 2,100 hours.
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Old 01-18-2017, 02:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the13thman View Post
I also paid a massive premium NOT to have a curved screen. As far as I can tell, there are no benefits, only disadvantages.
I don't think the curved is that bad -- you tend not to notice after a while. I also paid the same premium as I was on thin ice getting a new TV anyway. I could just see my wife's reaction with a curved set ...
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Old 01-18-2017, 03:21 PM   #8
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I think it's important to point out the strengths and weaknesses in both systems. OLED is not perfect. Both LCD and OLED has it's own flaws.

OLED is known for it's amazing blacks, and that holds true. LCD can't touch OLED in terms of pure, deep blacks. That is OLED's main strength. However, there are several weaknesses, and some may not even notice them while others will find it very annoying.

Some have issues with OLED and motion. OLED also suffers from temporary image retention. It isn't permanent, unless it's severe, but it can definitely carry over into the next scenes you're watching. Whether you notice this or not depends on the type of content you're watching. Static scenes are a problem. Network "bugs" (logos) can be an issue, as can gaming involving HUDs and scores that remain static for hours. Web browsing is a really bad idea on OLED. OLED also has ABL and ASBL. Auto Brightness Limiter reduces screen brightness as the overall panel brightness increases. Small portions of the screen can get plenty bright, but open up a browser windows and it dims to a dull grey. This same thing will happen in films that fade to white, or have overly-bright scenes. Bright beach scenes can be an issue. Hockey is a problem. Also, Auto Static Brightness Limiter slowly fades the panel if a scene remains mostly static longer than a minute or so. That can be an issue for gaming, depending on the type of game, and any film that lingers on long dialogue shots can slowly dim during the scene. ABL and ABSL can be reduced somewhat but cannot be disabled completely. Also note that as the ABL dims the image, colors are also affected and do not remain accurate.

Image retention and ABL were also issues on plasma of course. I tried plasma sets and couldn't accept the ABL. I find an unstable image to be the most annoying aspect of a TV. If a scene is bright I want it to be bright. The Battlestar Galactica remake series is a good example - with many scenes throughout it's 4-year run having purposely over-bright scenes for effect and style. Many films and TV shows do this. Just Google OLED and ABL to read some threads on the issue. Many insist it's unnoticeable but there are plenty of people who find it too annoying to tolerate.

LCD of course has it's own weaknesses. Edge-lit LCD panels suffer from clouding (patches of brighter areas on the panel), poor screen uniformity, vertical banding (dirty screen effect), and flashlighting (light leakage, usually in the corners of the panel). These all significantly affect the image you're watching. My LG UHD LCD panel (UH8500) has no flashlighting and very slight clouding (completely invisible on even the darkest scenes with local dimming on medium). But the vertical banding/uniformity is pretty bad. Horizontal panning shots are always distracting thanks to the banding, whether it be sports or a film or TV show. It's very noticeable.

Also, the UH8500 suffers from temporary image retention, just like OLED and plasma! Keeping the menus up from the TV itself or my blu-ray/media player for even a few minutes is enough to leave an afterimage that remains for a good 5-7 minutes before fading. I haven't tried gaming yet but I'm betting HUDs and scores will be a problem. Most LCDs don't have this issue so I have no idea how LG pulled this off.

And the UH8500 has mediocre blacks. With "local dimming" off, the blacks are totally unacceptable, and any clouding will be visible. Local dimming is a requirement. High dims the whites and bright areas too much. Medium is ideal - bringing the blacks to a mostly acceptable level. Black letterbox bars are stable and never fluctuate.

The other major issue with the 8500 is the very limited dimming zones. There are only a dozen vertical zones! This means an entire vertical area of the panel, top to bottom, needs to illuminate any time anything is on-screen in that vertical zone. In evenly-lit scenes, this is not an issue. On low light scenes, it becomes a major issue at times. It depends on how evenly lit scene is. A dark scene, evenly lit, can still look fine. But take a night shot with just a lantern on the side of the screen, and that whole zone lights up brighter than any other zone, to provide the light for the lantern, creating a bright pillar of light across the screen, top to bottom. Fireworks wreck havoc with this panel - some zones are lit and some aren't, leading to some zones that are completely off at times, giving the screen a very distracting appearance. I've grown to live with it. Many will hate it.

As far as UHD and 3D performance, the UH8500 is pretty amazing. 3D is outstanding. UHD looks stunning. HDR is limited by the panel's low nit rating (around 550 peak roughly). It is not UHD certified due to the low nit. It gets plenty bright for 3D and normal viewing, but gives mediocre HDR performance. It uses IPS so it has good viewing angles for an LCD but the blacks are fairly weak. The UH8500 is also an 8-bit panel that uses dithering to give that billion colors. It's not a true 10-bit panel regardless of what else you hear. LG lied to me last year and told me twice on the phone and over chat that it is a true 10-bit panel. This is not true.

In the end, it depends what you can tolerate for negatives. The LG OLED has stunning blacks and colors, and a gorgeous thin panel, but temporary image retention and ABL may bother some. It's also expensive compared to their LCD. The UH8500 LCD has a very impressive image for an LCD panel, with stunning 3D and excellent UHD performance, but only mediocre HDR performance, and several issues, including temporary image retention, mediocre blacks, and poor screen uniformity. Both use LG's WEBOS operating system which is the best out there - colorful, snappy, and fun. As far as curved - form what I read the main drawback is distorted reflections, so if you have lights on when watching the TV reflections may be more noticeable on a curved panel.
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Old 01-18-2017, 05:11 PM   #9
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It's quite simple, really. Curved or not, OLED>LCD, ESPECIALLY when you're comparing it to edge-lit displays.

In your position, I would get the OLED.

I have the 75UH8500. It's a pretty nice TV. The UI/remote is awesome, 3D is near-perfect, colours are rich, and the PQ is very good in typical daytime use. But the black levels/contrast is well below-average - worse than the previous two LCD sets I've owned. But, my priorities were a display >70" and passive 3D at a reasonable price, so I sacrificed on the PQ part of the equation to get what was most important to me.

If the 77" LG OLED didn't cost more than my car, that's what I would've purchased.

Last edited by tezster; 01-18-2017 at 05:11 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 01-18-2017, 06:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patsfan123 View Post
I have a curved screen LG OLED. The curve is so minor, it hardly makes a difference in everyday viewing. When you are sitting at normal distance, you hardly notice it and you will quickly forget its even curved. When watching from an extreme angle, the curve sorta helps you see the opposite corner of screen better.

The only other thing the curve really does is change how lights reflect off the TV. This isn't better or worse, just different based on where you are sitting and what sort of lights hit the TV.

On OLED TV, black is black, because the pixels are shut off. I was watching Robinson Crusoe 3D the other day and when the picture faded to black, my room was pitch black. You couldn't see a thing including the TV. This makes a bigger difference in a sharp detailed picture than pixels count.

That being said if you watch movies in a dark theater like environment, oled is the way to go. If you watch with the windows open during daytime, then you will not be able to see this benefit.

All LG LCD panels are IPS which mean they have poorer contrast than most LCD TVs which are VA. The trade off in contrast allows for better viewing angles at the expense of deep blacks. Think of a sports bar that only watches bright sports content, they need the wide viewing angles so people sitting around the bar can all see the same TV.

Why does LG use IPS vs VA like 95% of other LCD manufacturers, LG invented IPS and owns the trademark on the IPS name. They are still doing some R&D with these TVs as the contrast level is incrementally increasing every year but still nothing close to a VA panel. OLED is infinite contrast since the pixels shut off, IPS is now at 1200:1 (up from 1000:1 a few years back and 800:1 years before that) and VA ranges from 5000:1-7000:1 (up from 3000:1 a few years back). The higher the contrast value, the darker the panel can get.

tldr; for a dark viewing environment, get OLED; for a bright environment, get LCD, both will have wide viewing angles

-------
Good info here except that OLEDs work extremely well in ANY environment. They can crank out light all day if you want them to.

IPS panels do have great viewing angles for an LCD, for sure.
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s2mikey View Post
Good info here except that OLEDs work extremely well in ANY environment. They can crank out light all day if you want them to.

IPS panels do have great viewing angles for an LCD, for sure.
Agreed but I was conservative in my post because people have different definitions of bright viewing environment. I have a slider type door to the right of my TV and I dont have issues unless the sun is shining on the screen. Normal daytime viewing is fine.
I've seen posts where someone will claim an OLED is too dark at noon in their room that has 5 floor to ceiling windows that face a lake behind the TV.

Dark/theater lighting: OLED
Lights on at night: OLED
Daytime light, some windows: OLED
Windows facing TV: LCD
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Old 01-18-2017, 08:21 PM   #12
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I bought my UH608500 last March and was later horrified that it did not have HDR. I did not know the difference when I bought. I knew of 4K & UHD but not HDR. Since I just bought the UH608500 less than a year ago and am more than satisfied with the 3D it delivers I decided to save money on the OLED and go with another UH8500 with HDR and the 65" screen. That will put 3 3D TV's in my house hold. And hopefully that will be good for another 15 years without having to buy another TV. My first LG 42" 3D TV that I purchased 5 years ago is still going strong and I still use it the most since it is in by bedroom. The 60" I only use when I have company. The new 65" will stay boxed until I decide what to do with it. lol
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Old 01-18-2017, 10:16 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patsfan123 View Post
I have a curved screen LG OLED. The curve is so minor, it hardly makes a difference in everyday viewing. When you are sitting at normal distance, you hardly notice it and you will quickly forget its even curved. When watching from an extreme angle, the curve sorta helps you see the opposite corner of screen better.


-------
I would never pay a premium for a non curved screen over a curved screen after owning this one for a year and a half. I've see no practical disadvantage in viewing this TV over 2,100 hours.
Glad to read this. Bottom line is we could not afford the flat screen. Buying the 55C6P was an unexpected purchase, another tv to back up our 3D plasma.
We rarely watch tv during the day anyways but when we do, such as our monthly 3D Movie Party, we already close the blinds to darken the room. We have a large slider in that room but no problems with light when the blinds are pulled .

Also hubby and I saw the tv in person at Best Buy before ordering from Crutchfield and we were surprised to see that the curve is not that "curvy" so-to-speak.
It arrives tomorrow

PS Go Pats
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Old 01-18-2017, 11:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2112rushfan View Post

Also hubby and I saw the tv in person at Best Buy before ordering from Crutchfield and we were surprised to see that the curve is not that "curvy" so-to-speak.
It arrives tomorrow
You guys have continued another bad trend. Seeing the set at BB and then mail ordering the set. Did you give BB a chance to get a lower price? BB carries more weight with manufactures than Crutchfield. Only contributes to the impression there is no demand for 3D sets.
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Old 01-18-2017, 11:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhvsfan View Post
You guys have continued another bad trend. Seeing the set at BB and then mail ordering the set. Did you give BB a chance to get a lower price? BB carries more weight with manufactures than Crutchfield. Only contributes to the impression there is no demand for 3D sets.
We ordered it from Crutchfield because they have lifetime tech support, a 60 return policy (vs 15 days), we have purchased from them many times over the years and they are actually knowledgeable about the products they sell (and do not try to "up-sale")

And yes we DID specifically tell the salesman the we were looking for 3D on this set and that was the reason we were buying it.

He then proceeded to tell us that it was active 3D vs our plasma's passive

BTW we did buy the plasma from our local BB in 2013.
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Old 01-19-2017, 08:34 AM   #16
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I order alot from crutchfield and as for not buying from B.B. is not going to affect 3d because crutchfield has been in business for a very long time and I am sure lg knows how many TV's crutchfield sells. It's not like he bought a used one from a shady site that lg will not collect any money from. I am sure you would buy merchandise where ever you can get the best price from. Crutchfield has no tax out of state and one day shipping for me so if they have the best price then that's where I am buying from. Plus on the avs forums there are tons of people posting where to get the lowest price from and alot of them are from eBay but if you want to pay more go ahead. For that matter why not just order direct from LG Instead of B.B. if you really think that will save 3d.
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Old 01-19-2017, 09:53 AM   #17
Frank@Chicago Frank@Chicago is offline
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I now own a 2015 65" LED 8500 4K set and a 2016 65" OLED C6 4K set.

WebOS & Magic Remote are really great. LG does 3D really well (for now).

The 2015 8500 LED was purchased for the Family Room as our main TV.

It was a solid performer with great build quality and good PQ & 3D.

However, darkened environments are very challenging for edge-lit LEDs.

The blacks were pretty bad, to be honest. Some cloudiness and light leakage too.

The newer 8500s are probably a bit better, but I don't like the new U shaped stand.

Moving on to LG's stunning disaffection from 3D...

Decided to approach this situation as an opportunity to upgrade and reposition.

The 2015 LED 8500 will now go in the Living Room to be used for casual viewing.

The OLED C6 will takeover in the darker Family Room as our main movie night TV.

It's notable that you can now get 65" OLED for less that 3K (which is sort of amazing).

I've only had the OLED for a few days, but the blacks are amazing. A revelation...

The curve is another matter, I'm still trying to get used to it. More on that in a bit.

In my case, I literally got a curved TV to save $1200. That's the only reason.

3K is the absolute max that I felt I could spend and justify for a TV purchase.

With the recent LG price drops, the curved OLED just made it under the wire.

The curve doesn't seem to affect 2D, but it does make the TV feel a bit smaller.

For letterboxed 3D, there also doesn't seem to be any major problems with the curve.

But for Full Screen 3D, I noticed more cross-talk in the corners which is distracting.

It's not there in every scene, but it's annoying like light leakage in corner of an LED.

It's a little shady, that LG uses the curve to create value in it's higher priced flat OLEDs.

----------------------------------------------

Because size matters and money matters. I recommend the following for 65"...

For budget under $1500, get the 8500 LED and enjoy with more room lighting.

For budget under 3K, get the C6 OLED and learn to love the curve and the savings.

For budget under 4-5K, get the flat E6 OLED and make no compromises.

Last edited by Frank@Chicago; 01-19-2017 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 01-19-2017, 12:43 PM   #18
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Thank you for the continued advice and feedback in this thread, it is very helpful. I do want an OLED but I'm still on the fence due to price. I have a lot of outgoings and it's going to be a bit of a financial squeeze if I get another TV so soon so I have to think about and consider.
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Old 01-19-2017, 01:31 PM   #19
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There is speculation that the 2017 models are using the 2016 panels without the Polarizing 3D filter to achieve the additional HDR brightness peaks & sustained SDR brightness. They cite the 2016 B6 which also has no filter, that is actually brighter than the 2016 C,E,G models, matching up with the 2017 specs. This is in direct conflict with LGs statement that removal of 3D had nothing to do with performance or brightness issues. The rest of the 2017 improvements are software based.


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Old 01-19-2017, 02:44 PM   #20
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I have almost zero interest in UHD discs, but if I was interested, I would wait till DV players and DV discs were available.

As an OLED owner, I'd want to make sure I was getting playback that's tailored to my display.

OLEDs don't get as bright as newer LEDs, but with the right meta-data would look astounding.

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