A Guide to Bipolar, Dipolar, & Direct-Radiating Monopole Surround Speakers (PART I)

[Steve]

I have a question about the disadvantages of dipoles. I've always understood that dipoles must be positioned precisely to the sides of the listener so that you're in the null area. If you're unable to position them properly, or if you have seating positions outside of this area (an L-shaped sectional for example), won't they lose their desired effect? Wouldn't you then be mostly hearing whatever side is facing you, kind of like a monopole?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by fireman325

I have a question about the disadvantages of dipoles. I've always understood that dipoles must be positioned precisely to the sides of the listener so that you're in the null area. If you're unable to position them properly, or if you have seating positions outside of this area (an L-shaped sectional for example), won't they lose their desired effect? Wouldn't you then be mostly hearing whatever side is facing you, kind of like a monopole?

Usually, the best place for dipole speakers is to the sides of the main seating area. However, if can't put them there, try to put them as close as possible to that location. This is one reason why bipole speakers are more flexible than dipoles. Some people believe that dipole surrounds offered a big advantage with Dolby Pro Logic. However, with the newer discrete audio codecs, they may not be as useful.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by img eL

Here's another http://av123.com/component/page,shop...art/Itemid,37/

Thank you. I added the AV123 speakers to the list of Bipole and Dipole Speakers in post #2.

[dred]

I purchased a pair of Paradigm ADP-190s (bipolar)and they should be in next week. These will be mounted on the back wall which we sit about 2 feet away from (I could move the seats up about another 6" if it could help the sound). When mounting these, is there a rule of thumb as to how far apart they should be? The 3 theater chairs are about 9 1/2 feet wide. I plan to use some milk crates and a 2x6 to test placement, but would love a good starting point. Thanks.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by dred

I purchased a pair of Paradigm ADP-190s (bipolar)and they should be in next week. These will be mounted on the back wall which we sit about 2 feet away from (I could move the seats up about another 6" if it could help the sound). When mounting these, is there a rule of thumb as to how far apart they should be? The 3 theater chairs are about 9 1/2 feet wide. I plan to use some milk crates and a 2x6 to test placement, but would love a good starting point. Thanks.

Are you using 5.1 or 7.1? Is your room rectangular?

[dred]

5.1 and yes it is rectangular. I have at least 8 feet on either side of the seats. Placement on the sides of the seats is not an option for us. Thanks

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by dred

5.1 and yes it is rectangular. I have at least 8 feet on either side of the seats. Placement on the sides of the seats is not an option for us. Thanks

Bipolar speakers work best if they are slighly to the rear of the main listening position. Make sure the distance between the two surround speakers are at least as much as your front speakers.

Source: Polk Audio

[dred]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Make sure the distance between the two surround speakers are at least as much as your front speakers.

Great to know. My rears right now aren't the greatest and I really feel these will make a huge difference. Thanks for the very quick responses. I wish the dealer was this quick and I'd be setting it up now.

[Jim McC]

How much space is needed between a dipolar speaker(mounted on side wall) and rear wall? I have a few problems in my room, and I'm trying to figure out what type of speakers to use for surround, and where to mount them, in a 5.1setup. Problem #

1) My ears are about 2 feet from rear wall when seated, 44" above floor

2) Couch is just a few inches from left side wall

3) Ceiling height is only 6'-8" tall on left side. 6'-1" on right side under soffit.

4) Between the couch and right side wall there's a boxed in post(13" square)
directly to the side of my ears. And between this post and rear wall is only
15". This is where I was wondering if I could mount a dipole speaker(on
the post)?? Would this work, not being a "wall" ?

It seems like I have 3 options. With all options, the tops of surrounds would
be about 6' due to soffit on right side.

1) Mount a dipole on post(but there's only a 15" space between post and rear
wall) and a dipole on opposite side wall. Would this work?

2) Mount bipoles on rear wall. Right speaker would be a few feet farther from
listening position than left speaker. Is that OK? And the post is 15" in front of the right
speaker, so the sound would hit it and bounce right away? Is that good or bad?

3) Mount monopole bookshelf speakers on sides. I'd have to use a shelf on
right side due to the post in the way. This would be my last resort.

What do you guys think? I would post a pic, but I don't know how. I'm dying to order my speakers, but I have to get this figured out. Thanks a lot.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by Jim McC

How much space is needed between a dipolar speaker(mounted on side wall) and rear wall? I have a few problems in my room, and I'm trying to figure out what type of speakers to use for surround, and where to mount them, in a 5.1setup. Problem #

1) My ears are about 2 feet from rear wall when seated, 44" above floor

2) Couch is just a few inches from left side wall

3) Ceiling height is only 6'-8" tall on left side. 6'-1" on right side under soffit.

4) Between the couch and right side wall there's a boxed in post(13" square)
directly to the side of my ears. And between this post and rear wall is only
15". This is where I was wondering if I could mount a dipole speaker(on
the post)?? Would this work, not being a "wall" ?

It seems like I have 3 options. With all options, the tops of surrounds would
be about 6' due to soffit on right side.

1) Mount a dipole on post(but there's only a 15" space between post and rear
wall) and a dipole on opposite side wall. Would this work?

2) Mount bipoles on rear wall. Right speaker would be a few feet farther from
listening position than left speaker. Is that OK? And the post is 15" in front of the right
speaker, so the sound would hit it and bounce right away? Is that good or bad?

3) Mount monopole bookshelf speakers on sides. I'd have to use a shelf on
right side due to the post in the way. This would be my last resort.

What do you guys think? I would post a pic, but I don't know how. I'm dying to order my speakers, but I have to get this figured out. Thanks a lot.

If you already have the dipole speakers, do the following:

• Put the dipoles on the side on a horizontal line with your ears at least a foot away from the ceiling.
• You can install the speaker on the right on the post.
• Make sure the front part of the dipole speakers are facing the front wall and the rear sides are facing the back wall.
• In the future, install monopole speakers on the back wall for 7.1 setup.
• Use wall treatment on the back-wall with absorbent material that absorbs all higher frequencies of the dipoles except the long bass frequencies.

If you don't already have the speakers, buy bipolar speakers and install them on the sides, slighly to the rear of your head. Bipolar speakers will give you more flexibility in installation and will have more bass sound.

Many people believe that dipolar speakers and their recommendation by THX were more appropriate for the old Dolby Pro Logic era.

[Jim McC]

Thanks Big Daddy. I didn't buy anything yet. At least 1 foot below the ceiling?
That would be too low because to the bottom of soffit is only 6'-1". That would put the dipoles about 1 foot above my head. Do bipoles also have to be at least 1 foot below the ceiling/soffit? If not, I was hoping I could mount bipoles on the rear wall, like the diagram in the sticky shows. I don't think bipoles on the sides would be good because my wife sits right up against the left side wall. I'd also like to avoid treating the rear wall. There's a built-in A/V cabinet and door right there. Is there any reason why I couldn't put bipoles on the rear wall like the sticky diagram? If that would work, could I put them right up to the ceiling/soffit? Then the tops would be about 6' from floor. Thanks again.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by Jim McC

Thanks Big Daddy. I didn't buy anything yet. At least 1 foot below the ceiling?
That would be too low because to the bottom of soffit is only 6'-1". That would put the dipoles about 1 foot above my head. Do bipoles also have to be at least 1 foot below the ceiling/soffit? If not, I was hoping I could mount bipoles on the rear wall, like the diagram in the sticky shows. I don't think bipoles on the sides would be good because my wife sits right up against the left side wall. I'd also like to avoid treating the rear wall. There's a built-in A/V cabinet and door right there. Is there any reason why I couldn't put bipoles on the rear wall like the sticky diagram? If that would work, could I put them right up to the ceiling/soffit? Then the tops would be about 6' from floor. Thanks again.

If one foot below the ceiling is too low, don't do it. Bipoles are more flexible. You can install them on the rear walls. However, that would mean that you cannot have 7.1 in the future.

[Jim McC]

7.1 can't be done in this room anyway. I know I'm being a PITA, but I have 2 more questions. Can I mount bipoles on the rear wall right below the soffit? That would put the top about 6', about 2' above my head. If so, it's OK if one is closer to the couch than the other, correct? Thanks again.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by Jim McC

7.1 can't be done in this room anyway. I know I'm being a PITA, but I have 2 more questions. Can I mount bipoles on the rear wall right below the soffit? That would put the top about 6', about 2' above my head. If so, it's OK if one is closer to the couch than the other, correct? Thanks again.

I love Pita bread. I don't mind answering any reasonable question.

As long as the bipole speakers are above you head, you should be ok. Don't forget to run the calibration program in the receiver's menu after you have installed them.

[Jim McC]

Thanks. If you mean setting each speaker's decibel level, I do that with a digital meter from Radio Shack. My receiver doesn't have an automatic setup program. I'm just curious why dipoles need to be 1' below ceiling, and bipoles can be mounted right below ceiling?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by Jim McC

Thanks. If you mean setting each speaker's decibel level, I do that with a digital meter from Radio Shack. My receiver doesn't have an automatic setup program. I'm just curious why dipoles need to be 1' below ceiling, and bipoles can be mounted right below ceiling?

You misunderstood. All speakers sound better if they a foot or so away from the room boundaries. This also applies to the front speakers.

[micks_address]

Mordaunt short also make bi-poles

http://www.mordauntshort.com/summary...tle=Avant+903i

Actually ordered two to use as rear speakers. Have 902i on order for fronts and 905c for centre

Interested to see how the bi-poles work out..

Cheers,
Mick

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by micks_address

Mordaunt short also make bi-poles

http://www.mordauntshort.com/summary...tle=Avant+903i

Actually ordered two to use as rear speakers. Have 902i on order for fronts and 905c for centre

Interested to see how the bi-poles work out..

Cheers,
Mick

I added Mordaunt-Short to the list of Manufacturers in post #2. Thank you.

[konga]

I was surprised to see HiVi Swan Speakers are not on the list.

www.swanspeaker.com

[reyz]

thanks for the informative guide! really piqued my interest towards bi/dipole speakers and they sure do look inviting now..

just wondering, do most speakers just fall under the direct-radiating category if they're neither bi or dipole?

currently in the midst of getting a 5.1 setup now... would just like to check whether the Yamaha NS-M325 speakers are bipole, dipole or direct-radiating?

and if one wishes to upgrade to a 7.1 in the future, must the rear surrounds be similar to the surrounds (e.g. all bipole)? or can they just be anything else, even direct radiating?