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Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Audio > Subwoofers


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Old 09-21-2010, 08:05 PM   #21
Big Daddy Big Daddy is offline
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Originally Posted by kingofgrills View Post
Big Daddy, thank you for starting this thread. This is a lot of good information that will definitely be put to good use.

I've been considering getting tactile transducers for a while now. A friend of mine has Clark transducers in his HT room, and he loves them. Unfortunately, he's out of state, so I haven't been able to try them out yet.

I have a row of 3 Berkline theater seats you can see in my gallery. Do you think I'll need a transducer for each seat, or will a single one be sufficient? Also, do you know of a recommended place to attach the transducers? I'll have to do some research online, and flip over the seats.

Also, my final question has to do with my room setup, which was all pre-wired in wall. My sub currently sits to the side of my seats, with the sub jack behind it. Since the signal is already set at 80 Hz or lower from my receiver, would there be any issue adding a Y adapter and crossing the signal again at a lower level (say 55 Hz) for the transducer? I assume not, but it never hurts to check.

Oh, also, do transducers add any noise due to the physical movement they exert? If so, does it detract from the experience?
Thank you for the compliment.

In my case, I have a leather sofa. I installed the transducer in the bottom of the middle seat. The other two seats receive some movement. In your case, since the seats are separate, you may have to install one for each. Check Ebay and make an offer. You may get excellent deals.

I have mine connected to the same LFE output as the other subwoofers. The crossover frequency of most of my speakers are set at 80Hz. However, the LPF of the LFE is set at 120Hz. I assume the transducer receives all the low frequencies below 120Hz. The clark Tactile Transducer is different than the other bass shakers and buttkickers. It has a frequency response that goes from the low teens all the way up to the 17,000Hz-20,000Hz range. It can actually make a sound, although I don't recommend it. Feel free to set the crossover to any value below 200Hz.

If you set the level of the transducer too high, it can be distracting. You need to experiment with it and some bass-heavy movies. It is important to use an amplifier that has level control.

Last edited by Big Daddy; 09-21-2010 at 08:37 PM.
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Old 09-21-2010, 08:15 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy View Post
Thank you for the compliment.

In my case, I have a leather sofa. I installed the transducer in the bottom of the middle seat. The other two seats receive some movement. In your case, since the seats are separate, you may have to install one for each. Check Ebay and make an offer. You may get excellent deals.

I have mine connected to the same LFE output as the other subwoofers. The crossover frequency of most of my speakers are set at 80Hz. However, the LPF of the LFE is set at 120Hz. I assume the transducer receives all the low frequencies below 120Hz. The clark Tactile Transducer is different than the other bass shakers and buttkickers. It has a frequency response that goes from the low teens all the way up to the 17,000Hz-20,000Hz range. It can actually make a sound, although I don't recommend it. Feel free to to set the crossover for it to any value below 200Hz.

If you set the level of the transducer too high, it can be distracting. You need to experiment with it and some bass-heavy movies. It is important to use an amplifier that has level control.
I couldn't agree more!!!!
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Old 09-21-2010, 10:33 PM   #23
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So, are there any good suggestions for an inexpensive amp with built in level and gain control that will power 3 Clark transducers?
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Old 09-22-2010, 06:57 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by kingofgrills View Post
So, are there any good suggestions for an inexpensive amp with built in level and gain control that will power 3 Clark transducers?
Unfortunately, home audio amplifiers do not normally have level controls. Your best option is to buy a pro amplifier or buy a dedicated subwoofer amp. I use pro amps for all my subwoofers and I am very happy with their resuls. The important thing you need to pay attention to is that some pro amps do not have RCA inputs and you need to use RCA to XLR or TRS adaptes. The other problem with some of them is that their fans may be noisy. You either replace the fan with a low noise fans as I did or put the amp someplace where the noise will not bother you.

As far as subwoofer amps are concerned, the ones that already have a box are relatively expensive. The plate amplifiers are relatively cheaper, but you may have to build a small wooden box for them.

Relatively Inexpensive Pro Amps:
http://www.thedeepdiscount.com/c-308...400&OVNDID=ND1
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trk...All-Categories
http://www.amazon.com/Technical-Pro-.../dp/B002UD53GQ
http://www.amazon.com/Technical-Pro-...134029&sr=8-15
http://www.amazon.com/Pyle-Pro-PTA10...5134029&sr=8-3
http://www.amazon.com/Pyle-PPA450-Ch...134379&sr=8-26


Subwoofer Plate Amplifiers:
http://www.parts-express.com/webpage...ctGroup_ID=505
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/browse...odules/3831187
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=360
http://www.oaudio.com/500W_SUBAMP.html
http://www.oaudio.com/300W_SUBAMP.html
http://www.oregondv.com/Subwoofer_Amplifiers.htm
http://www.creativesound.ca/products...plifiers&make=
http://www.solen.ca/pub/cms_nf_catal...lvbj0yJmZ0PW5m
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/products2.html
http://www.bkelec.com/Modules/Sub_Bass.htm
http://redgumaudio.com/store/Sub_Amp_Plates.html

External Amplifiers for Passive Subwoofers:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=300-380
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=302-601
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=300-812
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=300-811
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=300-383
http://www.diycable.com/main/product...8fa1480040dbd7
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...wer-amplifiers
http://www.amazon.com/AudioSource-AM...0868364&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Audiosource-AM...8465481&sr=8-5
http://www.amazon.com/OSD-Audio-Subw...&s=electronics
http://www.amazon.com/Boston-Acousti...8465645&sr=8-4
http://www.amazon.com/TBI-200-su-Sub...8465645&sr=8-5
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=A403
http://www.diyhifisupply.com/?q=cata...orn_amplifiers
http://www.outdoorspeakerdepot.com/suam.html
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/p...ifiers/swa500/

Last edited by Big Daddy; 09-22-2010 at 06:59 AM.
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Old 10-21-2010, 12:58 AM   #25
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Bump Need to start doing some reading & want to find it easier
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Old 10-21-2010, 11:40 AM   #26
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OK Big Daddy

After going threw & reading & looking at different sites for over an hour

I have 2 channels on my UPA-7 & 2 channels on my XPA-5 that are not being used. I will use one channel on the UPA-7 & get a active pro crossover & the transducer .

My question is ~ Does the active pro crossover get connected between the receiver & amplifier , Just want to make sure so I can get the cables needed .
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Old 10-21-2010, 12:13 PM   #27
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OK Big Daddy

After going threw & reading & looking at different sites for over an hour

I have 2 channels on my UPA-7 & 2 channels on my XPA-5 that are not being used. I will use one channel on the UPA-7 & get a active pro crossover & the transducer .

My question is ~ Does the active pro crossover get connected between the receiver & amplifier , Just want to make sure so I can get the cables needed .
Yes, the active crossover should be installed between the receiver and the amplifier.
  • Connect one sub cable from the sub output on the back of the receiver to the input on the back of the crossover.
  • Connect another sub cable From the crossover's low level output to the amplifier's input. The active crossover has one set of inputs and three sets of outputs (low level, mid level, high level).
  • Connect speaker wires from the amplifier to the transducer.
  • You can run the transducer at the same crossover as your other subwoofers. You should turn the low pass crossover dial all the way up to its maximum point to let the receiver control the crossover.
  • Adjust the low level volume dial on the active crossover so that the transducer is not too overpowering and distracting. It takes a while to get used to it.
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Old 10-21-2010, 12:17 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy View Post
Yes, the active crossover should be installed between the receiver and the amplifier.
  • Connect one sub cable from the sub output on the back of the receiver to the input on the back of the crossover.
  • Connect another sub cable From the crossover's low level output to the amplifier's input. The active crossover has one set of inputs and three sets of outputs (low level, mid level, high level).
  • Connect speaker wires from the amplifier to the transducer.
  • You can run the transducer at the same crossover as your other subwoofers. You should turn the low pass crossover dial all the way up to its maximum point to let the receiver control the crossover.
  • Adjust the low level volume dial on the active crossover so that the transducer is not too overpowering and distracting. It takes a while to get used to it.
Thank You Big Daddy for your response . Everything I need to know has been answered
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Old 10-21-2010, 01:35 PM   #29
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Thank You Big Daddy for your response . Everything I need to know has been answered
Do you plan to install them within the couch Brent? Personally, that is how these things work best IMO. I never could with my furniture, and have since retired my buttkicker for the time being or until I can figure out a better way to use it. My only option may be to have a small platform built and attach the transducer(s) (I might need a second one) underneath the platform to get the best effect. I found using the one leg of the chair just didn't provide the proper effect I wanted.
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Old 10-21-2010, 03:41 PM   #30
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It seems like the best way to go is to buy a dedicated subwoofer amp and connect to the transducer. Is there any disadvantages with my setup? I have a set of the Aura Basshakers. I split my receiver LFE @ 80hz cutoff b/w the subwoofer and to a secondary spare JVC receiver phono input. The JVC receiver is set to 0 and bass at mid powers the basshakers. I'd adjust the volume of the JVC receiver at a comfortable level and they shake pretty good. Once in a while for a really deep bass I would get distortion which can be fixed by turning down the JVC receiver at little bit lower. If I were to get a real subwoofer amp will there be better quality? Is it still recommended to get a crossover to bring it lower than 80hz?

Last edited by omemnow; 10-21-2010 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 10-22-2010, 01:00 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by omemnow View Post
It seems like the best way to go is to buy a dedicated subwoofer amp and connect to the transducer. Is there any disadvantages with my setup? I have a set of the Aura Basshakers. I split my receiver LFE @ 80hz cutoff b/w the subwoofer and to a secondary spare JVC receiver phono input. The JVC receiver is set to 0 and bass at mid powers the basshakers. I'd adjust the volume of the JVC receiver at a comfortable level and they shake pretty good. Once in a while for a really deep bass I would get distortion which can be fixed by turning down the JVC receiver at little bit lower. If I were to get a real subwoofer amp will there be better quality? Is it still recommended to get a crossover to bring it lower than 80hz?
You are correct. The best and easier way of using a transducer or bass shaker is to buy a subwoofer amplifier. Subwoofer amplifiers have a built-in crossover and level control. They are also cheaper.

In crazyBlue's case, he already owns an excellent multi-channel amplifier. Two of the channels are not used and he wants to use those to power a transducer. Regular audio amplifiers are much better built than subwoofer amplifiers and last much longer. You don't hear the same kind of problems about them that you hear about brand new plate subwoofer amps that are defective out of the box. In addition, subwoofer amps are band-limited and cannot be used to power regular speakers. The main disadvantage of home theater amplifiers is that most of them do not have gain level controls or crossovers. That is why crazyBlue wants to use an active pro powered crossover. You can buy good pro crossovers for around $60 to $80.

One big advantage of pro amplifiers over home theater amps is that they have built-in level controls and are a lot cheaper. The biggest disadvantage with them is that they usually have noisy cooling fans.

Last edited by Big Daddy; 10-22-2010 at 01:19 AM.
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Old 10-22-2010, 01:14 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Big Daddy View Post
You are correct. The best and easier way of using a transducer or bass shaker is to buy a subwoofer amplifier. Subwoofer amplifiers have a built-in crossover and level control. They are also cheaper.

In crazyBlue's case, he already owns an excellent multi-channel amplifier. Two of the channels are not used and he wants to use those to power a transducer. Regular audio amplifiers are much better built than subwoofer amplifiers and last much longer. You don't hear the same kind of problems about them that you hear about brand new plate subwoofer amps that are defective out of the box. In addition, subwoofer amps are band-limited and cannot be used to power regular speakers. The main disadvantage of home theater amplifiers is that most of them do not have gain level controls or crossovers. That is why crazyBlue wants to use an active pro powered crossover. You can buy good pro crossovers for around $60 to $80.

One big advantage of pro amplifiers over home theater amps is that they have built-in level controls and are a lot cheaper. The biggest disadvantage with them is that they usually have noisy cooling fans.
I have the unused channels so why not put them to good use The nice thing is if I don't think one Transducer is enough for the couch I can get another & have another amp channel available to use & already have the Active pro crossover as well

Last edited by Big Daddy; 10-22-2010 at 01:20 AM.
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Old 10-22-2010, 03:10 AM   #33
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Thanks for the explanations. It seems the only disadvantage with using a home theater receiver is no crossover (I can still use gain control). Would it help if I set the subwoofer LFE crossover to 60 hz or even to 40hz? I read somewhere that sometimes it's better to set the lfe crossover below 80hz anyway if the speakers aren't THX certified.
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Old 10-22-2010, 05:05 AM   #34
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Thanks for the explanations. It seems the only disadvantage with using a home theater receiver is no crossover (I can still use gain control). Would it help if I set the subwoofer LFE crossover to 60 hz or even to 40hz? I read somewhere that sometimes it's better to set the lfe crossover below 80hz anyway if the speakers aren't THX certified.
If you have competent subwoofers in your room, it is better to let them do their job and output the lower frequencies. Most speakers, even tower speakers, are not as good as subwoofers in handling the lower frequencies. In most cases, people use smaller speakers for the center and surround channels. You are probably better off with a crossover of 80Hz, even if your speakers are not THX certified.

If your receiver has a separate crossover setting for the LFE (sometimes referred to as LPF of LFE), set that to 120Hz.
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Old 10-22-2010, 02:09 PM   #35
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If you have competent subwoofers in your room, it is better to let them do their job and output the lower frequencies. Most speakers, even tower speakers, are not as good as subwoofers in handling the lower frequencies. In most cases, people use smaller speakers for the center and surround channels. You are probably better off with a crossover of 80Hz, even if your speakers are not THX certified.

If your receiver has a separate crossover setting for the LFE (sometimes referred to as LPF of LFE), set that to 120Hz.
Hi! So I just want to make sure I understand what you mean. It's best to have my main receiver LPF of LFE to 80hz or even 120hz for best audio result. That means more bass range will be sent to the subwoofer but to the bass shaker at the same time due to the signal being splitted with the Y rca wire. However, my bass shaker will pickup a lot of sound at higher frequency setting so I would need to get a seperate crossover for the bass shaker and set crossover to 40hz right? I mentioned 40hz b/c I think the specs say the bass shaker works best at that range.
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Old 10-23-2010, 02:05 AM   #36
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Hi! So I just want to make sure I understand what you mean. It's best to have my main receiver LPF of LFE to 80hz or even 120hz for best audio result. That means more bass range will be sent to the subwoofer but to the bass shaker at the same time due to the signal being splitted with the Y rca wire. However, my bass shaker will pickup a lot of sound at higher frequency setting so I would need to get a seperate crossover for the bass shaker and set crossover to 40hz right? I mentioned 40hz b/c I think the specs say the bass shaker works best at that range.
I am assuming that you already own a subwoofer besides the bass shaker.

If your receiver has only one crsossover setting that applies to all the speakers, set it to 80Hz. On the back of the subwoofer, turn the crossover all the way up to its maximum point so that the subwoofer can receive all the frequencies that are sent by the receiver.

For your bass shaker, I assume you are using a subwoofer amplifier. Subwoofer amplifiers have a crosover setting. Set it to 40Hz or whatever frequency the manufacturer suggests.

If your receiver has advanced crossover settings and allows you to set the crossover of each speaker and the LFE, set the crossovers for the speakers to 80Hz and set the LPF of LFE to 120Hz. Again, make sure the crossover on the bass shaker amplifier is set to 40Hz or whatever number the manufacturer suggests.

One of the advantages that Clark Tactile Transducer has is that it can receive higher frequencies up to around 17,000Hz.

Last edited by Big Daddy; 10-23-2010 at 02:10 AM.
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Old 10-23-2010, 06:50 PM   #37
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I just ordered a ;

Clark Synthesis TST209 Tactile Transducer
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=300-861

Pyramid PR3000 Active Pro Crossover
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...sr=8-1&seller=

And a bunch of cables from Monoprice

I should have a shaky weekend next weekend
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Old 10-24-2010, 12:37 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by crazyBLUE View Post
I just ordered a ;

Clark Synthesis TST209 Tactile Transducer
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=300-861

Pyramid PR3000 Active Pro Crossover
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...sr=8-1&seller=

And a bunch of cables from Monoprice

I should have a shaky weekend next weekend
Your a$$ will definitely appreciate the massage.
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Old 10-24-2010, 12:46 AM   #39
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Your a$$ will definitely appreciate the massage.
That is what I am hoping I think I will start with Terminator Salvation & then The Dark Knight That should feel pretty good I think
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Old 10-24-2010, 12:53 AM   #40
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That is what I am hoping I think I will start with Terminator Salvation & then The Dark Knight That should feel pretty good I think
Your neighbors will also be happy. When they are around, turn the subwoofers down and turn the transducer up. You won't hear much bass, but you will feel it.
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