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Old 01-21-2015, 12:50 PM   #2741
#Darren #Darren is offline
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I think the Oz wasn't really important here and I just wanted to focus in on the babes.
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Old 01-21-2015, 12:59 PM   #2742
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Joyce was a really boring character sometimes. Imagine if they re-framed in a way to cut her out of the picture! Could improve a lot of episodes.
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Old 01-21-2015, 01:29 PM   #2743
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Oz, Cordy, Willow and Xander's screen-time has actually been improving lately in 16:9. Oz's screen-time is probably doubling with all of these background shots. LOL.

David Boreanaz's broad shoulders, more of the back of his head and neck are able to make it in frame a lot more often. 4:3 tends to crop him width-wise a lot (usually loses his shoulders in close-ups).

Poor Wesley still can't catch a break with the cropping leaving him out of frame and hacking away image to avoid him... Unless, of course, it isn't Alexis standing there.

Last edited by NileQT87; 01-22-2015 at 07:35 AM.
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Old 01-21-2015, 03:05 PM   #2744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NileQT87 View Post
@Drewbee87... I recently also had catastrophic computer failure. It's possible you installed some very problematic Windows Updates back in August that destroyed a lot of people's computers (key sign is if Windows Explorer starts crashing every few minutes). If you can uninstall those August updates, you might be able to salvage it.
I've got it working normally again, for now... Installed updates that some people on the net said would hopefully fix the problem. I heard about those August updates and didn't install them. The laptop I'm using was originally my Dad's, he got a deal at Best Buy because he bought a display that was clearly in the store for awhile because it had paint chipped off in multiple places. There's no telling what else happened to. So it hasn't exactly been the best computer since the day it was purchased. lol
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Old 01-22-2015, 01:35 PM   #2745
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3x20 The Prom DVD vs Pivot HD (low resolution):

- The composition is kind of ruined on this shot because of the beige walls (comparison # 2).
- No, you are not dreaming. The sunlight is now purple. Something isn't right here... Right? (comparison # 3)
- The church's shot is cropped and the enhancement is really bad. This happens since the beginning of the remastering with Buffy's house for example (comparison # 5).
- I'm not quite sure about this one but it seems that the shot where Buffy is burning come from the old SD version, with some enhancement too. If this is not the case, it just looks bad and unnatural (comparison # 9).
- This shot is completely cropped. We lose a lot of height. We do not see Angel's hand holding Buffy's arm to prevent her from leaving (comparison # 10).
- Once again, the shot is cropped. The composition is a mess (comparison # 15).

Full size: http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/380778BuffyHD.jpg


Last edited by Buffdale; 01-22-2015 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 01-22-2015, 02:20 PM   #2746
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[CENTER]3x20 The Prom DVD vs Pivot HD (low resolution):

- The church's shot is cropped and the enhancement is really bad. This happens since the beginning of the remastering with Buffy's house for example (comparison # 5).
Wow. How can someone sharpen a picture that much and honestly think that it looks good / better than before. Unbelievable.
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Old 01-23-2015, 12:00 AM   #2747
Imaginarion Imaginarion is offline
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Looks like we're nearing the end of S3. Once we make it through S4, I don't think I'll be able to look in this thread again. If they **** up Fool for Love, The Body or The Gift (and I know they will), that will be completely unforgivable for me.
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Old 01-23-2015, 12:20 AM   #2748
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Looks like we're nearing the end of S3. Once we make it through S4, I don't think I'll be able to look in this thread again. If they **** up Fool for Love, The Body or The Gift (and I know they will), that will be completely unforgivable for me.
Seasons 4-7 have previously been released in 16:9 so we'll have to wait and see if the HD versions use the same framing (which was mostly fine) or not.
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Old 01-23-2015, 12:31 AM   #2749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imaginarion View Post
Looks like we're nearing the end of S3. Once we make it through S4, I don't think I'll be able to look in this thread again. If they **** up Fool for Love, The Body or The Gift (and I know they will), that will be completely unforgivable for me.
The Gift is sort of ruined for me on DVD, since I found out some widescreen goofs after watching it over and over again...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PenguinMaster View Post
Seasons 4-7 have previously been released in 16:9 so we'll have to wait and see if the HD versions use the same framing (which was mostly fine) or not.
I might be wrong, but I doubt they will. I'm sure there are going to be unnecessary reframings, just like the past seasons. And of course, the colors will be all wrong.

Also not to miss...
"This Saturday on Pivot. Graduation Day: The Botched Version"!
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Old 01-23-2015, 02:57 AM   #2750
NileQT87 NileQT87 is offline
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Width is also cropped on BOTH SIDES of the 4:3 image when Buffy is pouring fruit punch. Look at the guy's face on the left and count heads of background people on the right.

The visibly translucent layers of tulle are also lightened right out of existence on the wedding dress into one flat layer of opaque white. The lightening is definitely not native to the original film source and the darkening is not just a product of the ancient DVD transfer. The purple hue is certainly not native to the original footage.

Also, a lot of atmosphere is destroyed in the prom sequence when you have the lights turned on that brightly. Proms have intimate, dark lighting conducive to romantic dancing and mirror balls. Hello! Though I do like the amount of width on the 360 shot allowing more visibility of the other main characters behind Bangel. It's the perfect example of the benefits of 16:9.

I can also vouch by experience for which color of dark orangey-yellow that those classic school notebooks come in. They are definitely not pale yellow. You'd think the person doing the retinting on this remaster would have some vivid memories of having gone to school in America prior to everyone having iProducts and computers. Any Gen-X or Gen-Y person working on this remaster should have recognized right away that the color in that shot wasn't right, simply by remembering having gone to school prior to the Millennium!

Last edited by NileQT87; 01-23-2015 at 10:00 AM.
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Old 01-23-2015, 04:27 AM   #2751
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The lightening is definitely not native to the original film source and the darkening is not just a product of the ancient DVD transfer. The purple hue is certainly not native to the original footage.
We aren't certain about anything regarding the original film colors.

Here's an excerpt from Library Preservation At Harvard about film deterioration:
Quote:
Color acetate film is additionally threatened by color fading. The dyes in color film are complex organic molecules that can lose color if the film structure changes. Some deteriorated motion pictures have a purple tone caused by color fading. The original color tone was created with a combination of cyan, yellow and magenta dyes. Magenta is the longest-lived color of the three, so it becomes more prominent as the cyan and yellow fade.
I have to say (and will keep saying) that they're just working with what they've got, at bare minimum, without necessary enhancements to fix the colors that may or may not have been due to deterioration since we don't exactly know what it was like on set or how the film were stored.
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Old 01-23-2015, 04:39 AM   #2752
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It's unlikely the film would have faded that quickly. Early colour film was very susceptible to fading, however anything from the early 80s onwards is pretty good. I know a bit about this however it is not my expertise, but isn't the fade time closer to one-hundred years? I haven't heard anything about colours fading on Star Trek The Next Generation.

Some of the colour changes are clearly upgrades, we can see subtle tones that DVD simply couldn't capture. Other times they are ignoring deliberate choices that were made electronically, things like day for night filters, colour casts, things the director and DOP wanted, but did on the tapes and not the film. Others seem like automatic adjustments, like using an autoexposure filter in Photoshop, which chooses what it thinks is good but is only a machines guess.
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Old 01-23-2015, 04:57 AM   #2753
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Well that's my guess for the consistent amounts of purple. Maybe they weren't stored properly?

I could definitely see the automatic adjustments from the negatives since the remaster is really lacking contrast/gamma which is causing the dull image.
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Old 01-23-2015, 05:04 AM   #2754
NileQT87 NileQT87 is offline
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Oh, I agree there would be some levels of lightening and more pink in the skin tones (cheeks and lips, usually), but certainly not a strong purple shift. Early season 2 on the DVD seems to have color issues that are downright unnatural (at its worst in Reptile Boy and Inca Mummy Girl, though also noticeable in episodes like School Hard) that were corrected for the better into looking more like the rest of the show and no longer look like something malfunctioned with the exposure.

As I pointed out earlier, there is dialog by Spike in The Initiative (4x07) that refers to the color of Willow's tops in Lovers' Walk (3x08) as "that fuzzy pink number with the lilac underneath". This remaster has turned the "fuzzy pink number" a bit more lilac! The lilac spaghetti strap top underneath the fuzzy pink sweater that is very obvious in the original isn't quite as blatant. For continuity's sake, they might want to keep the clothing colors the same, especially the ones referred to in dialog!

These new tints are completely changing the colors of a lot of people's clothing into entirely different colors. Buffy's blue jeans there have completely changed color in the above shots, for example, as has Buffy's purple top becoming a pink top in the sewer breakup scene. Back in Helpless, the blue blanket became a purple blanket in the library. The green walls in Giles' house and the Mayor's office have been getting tinted blue. The burgundy carpet in the library has been turning purple since the beginning of this remaster. There is so much pink added to the scene in Prophecy Girl where Xander holds up a cross to Angel in his apartment that the cream pattern on Angel's burgundy chair has become a light pink pattern on a dark fuchsia chair.

Take a look at how unnatural the skin tones are and the absence of orange undertones that came from SMG dying her hair red for Simply Irresistible in Buffy's bleached blonde hair (that's why it looks so orange in Anne) that are now much more off-color dull platinum in the wakeup scene (the skin tones in that scene are now very unnatural in an inhuman way--it's a rare scene that is actually darker than the original). Take a look at the complete loss of being able to see all the layers of transparent tulle in that wedding dress skirt. There is a lot of contrast level flattening to bring the shadow levels up to where the lightened light areas are. This has not been a good look on the prosthetics either. Yes, the crushed blacks are horrendous on the early DVDs to the point where you could see sod all in some scenes, but some level of contrast belongs in some scenes, as removing it destroys some shots. Transparent fabrics make it obvious, too.

And the notebook is a dead giveaway that the color is very strongly off, because, while I can see the scene being slightly lighter, those classic school notebooks really are that dark orangey-yellow color and not pale yellow.

Also, as you can tell from this shot of the season 3 cast, SMG and DB had really strong tans that year (trying to make CC's deeply tanned skin pink has just been making her look awful). Some of the cast members were clearly baking themselves on beaches in late 1998-1999. Making them pale pink people is not quite right. Buffy looking like a streaky bleached blonde Orange-Glo person in season 3 is accurate!


Last edited by NileQT87; 01-23-2015 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 01-23-2015, 07:05 AM   #2755
Imaginarion Imaginarion is offline
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Seasons 4-7 have previously been released in 16:9 so we'll have to wait and see if the HD versions use the same framing (which was mostly fine) or not.
I meant more so the horrid DNR and color correction, but yes, I imagine they'll mess up the framing as well. The Body, in particular, had very symbolic color timing in certain scenes -- the cold, industrial blues of Joyce in the morgue contrasted with the sickly, overly-exposed yellows of Buffy looking out the window after seeing her mom's body, just to name two -- and those need to be preserved at all costs.
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Old 01-23-2015, 01:18 PM   #2756
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By series 4 they'd pretty much sorted out the brightness levels so there isn't anywhere near as much black crush as in the early series. So really, all that needs to be done for these series is to match the original brightness/contrast/colour levels and framing, then reframe any scenes with errors (if possible/reasonable). Plus all the CGI etc. of course.
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Old 01-23-2015, 01:51 PM   #2757
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Guys stop complaining. It's the new PINK BUFFY, Purple Sunshine, Night is now Day, Stretched, Cropped 16x9 re-imagining we've all been dreaming off!
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Old 01-23-2015, 01:53 PM   #2758
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David Boreanaz getting a nice handful there!

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Old 01-23-2015, 02:17 PM   #2759
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(...) all that needs to be done for these series is to match the original brightness/contrast/colour levels and framing, then reframe any scenes with errors (if possible/reasonable). Plus all the CGI etc. of course.
That's all that they needed to do for S1-S3 too, and they clearly didn't.
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Old 01-23-2015, 05:23 PM   #2760
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That's all that they needed to do for S1-S3 too, and they clearly didn't.
Nah, can't agree with that. You're insane if you think the horrid black crush that features in most of the early series masters is good.

You're right though, the chances of the HD versions of series 4-7 being better than the originals (aside from more detail) is about 0% at this time.
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