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Old 10-21-2018, 01:02 AM   #1
IntelliVolume IntelliVolume is offline
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Default Can Someone Explain What "Fit to Screen: AUTO" Does on Samsungs?

I totally get the function of Samsung displays' "Fit to Screen" setting, which is what controls overscan and as such forces the display to exhibit "full pixel" information; in my last television, which was a 1080p Sony SXRD rear projection set, I believe overscan was applied automatically, as the "Full" widescreen setting introduced images that appeared overscanned (though weren't supposed to using such a setting)…but my new Samsung NU8000 UHD TV has a setting in the Fit to Screen option area that is called "Auto," and I don't understand how this works...

I would think overscan would be just an on/off thing, so what is the "Auto" setting actually doing when engaged for Fit to Screen -- notably when playing DVDs and Blu-rays? Should this be left to Auto, or should I select the on/off position? As a point of reference, I actually PREFER overscan on my sets, because it reduces the black letterboxing areas of scope films and enables the "matted" widescreen transfers (1.85 or 1.78) to fill the screen without the tiny letterboxing (though I know this is probably introducing a resolution reduction somewhere).

But does anyone know what "Auto" Fit to Screen does on Samsungs?
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Old 10-21-2018, 05:09 PM   #2
chip75 chip75 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
I would think overscan would be just an on/off thing, so what is the "Auto" setting actually doing when engaged for Fit to Screen -- notably when playing DVDs and Blu-rays? Should this be left to Auto, or should I select the on/off position? As a point of reference, I actually PREFER overscan on my sets, because it reduces the black letterboxing areas of scope films and enables the "matted" widescreen transfers (1.85 or 1.78) to fill the screen without the tiny letterboxing (though I know this is probably introducing a resolution reduction somewhere).

But does anyone know what "Auto" Fit to Screen does on Samsungs?
Overscan is usually an on/off thing, but not all inputs (or content) can be displayed at 1:1. Auto should display everything it can at 1:1, but if you run into issues you can select On. There shouldn't be any issues with DVD or BD playback over HDMI.

1.78:1 pictures aren't matted, they're full screen, you do on occasion have some window or pillar boxing on older masters, but if you're using overscan with a decent 1.78:1 transfer you're just losing video information from all four sides.
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Old 10-21-2018, 07:50 PM   #3
IntelliVolume IntelliVolume is offline
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Somehow I knew it was gonna be you who responded, at least first, Chip...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chip75 View Post
Overscan is usually an on/off thing, but not all inputs (or content) can be displayed at 1:1. Auto should display everything it can at 1:1, but if you run into issues you can select On. There shouldn't be any issues with DVD or BD playback over HDMI.
Thanks for the explanation; so using Auto for the BD player input should basically act like "On" as all the DVDs and Blu-rays should play back pixel for pixel?

Quote:
1.78:1 pictures aren't matted, they're full screen
Well, I was referring to those widescreen transfers that basically fill the screen, but I see what you mean -- still, by "full screen," did you mean widescreen images that fill a screen?

Quote:
you do on occasion have some window or pillar boxing on older masters, but if you're using overscan with a decent 1.78:1 transfer you're just losing video information from all four sides.
I think we're dipping into somewhat conflicting areas here; I do own some non-anamorphic DVDs that don't boast widescreen enhancement, so when I play these back I have to use the Oppo player's zoom function to get them into a proper playback ratio -- but I think I wanted to know more about these 1.78:1 transfers in which, with overscan engaged, they fill the 16:9 frame without any LETTERBOXING.

Are you saying that WITHOUT overscan, these transfers SHOULD actually exhibit some letterboxing?
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Old 10-21-2018, 10:27 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
Thanks for the explanation; so using Auto for the BD player input should basically act like "On" as all the DVDs and Blu-rays should play back pixel for pixel?
Generally that should be the case, On is only needed when Auto isn't doing the work automatically, but with your OPPO and a HDMI connection Auto will be perfectly fine.

Quote:
1.78:1 pictures aren't matted, they're full screen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
Well, I was referring to those widescreen transfers that basically fill the screen, but I see what you mean -- still, by "full screen," did you mean widescreen images that fill a screen?
Yes, a 1.78:1 will be full screen with 16:9 displays. If you're using overscan you're cropping all four sides needlessly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
I think we're dipping into somewhat conflicting areas here; I do own some non-anamorphic DVDs that don't boast widescreen enhancement, so when I play these back I have to use the Oppo player's zoom function to get them into a proper playback ratio -- but I think I wanted to know more about these 1.78:1 transfers in which, with overscan engaged, they fill the 16:9 frame without any LETTERBOXING.
No, without overscan they fit the whole screen, 1.78:1 is literally 16 divided by 9, so they don't have any letterboxing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
Are you saying that WITHOUT overscan, these transfers SHOULD actually exhibit some letterboxing?
With newer releases, no, there shouldn't be any pillar or letter boxing. But some older masters exhibit it in some form. Take Under Siege and Bullitt for example:






Both have some pillar-boxing, but it's definitely not something I'd switch overscan on for.
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Old 10-21-2018, 11:47 PM   #5
IntelliVolume IntelliVolume is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip75 View Post
Generally that should be the case, On is only needed when Auto isn't doing the work automatically, but with your OPPO and a HDMI connection Auto will be perfectly fine.
Alright; I'll try experimenting with Fit to Screen ON tonight and let you know how any Blu-rays or DVDs looked...

The only thing I don't care for when it comes to overscan being OFF is that the wider scope films at 2.40 and 2.35 exhibit GREATER letterboxed areas, making my screen -- which I already sit too far away from (as it was in the last case too) -- seem even SMALLER because the image "shrinks" from top and bottom...

Quote:
Yes, a 1.78:1 will be full screen with 16:9 displays. If you're using overscan you're cropping all four sides needlessly.
I see...you're right that the sides being cropped off is completely unnecessary in these cases...

What about 1.85:1 transfers? THOSE will exhibit some minor letterboxing on top and bottom, yes?

Quote:
No, without overscan they fit the whole screen, 1.78:1 is literally 16 divided by 9, so they don't have any letterboxing.
I see...

Quote:
With newer releases, no, there shouldn't be any pillar or letter boxing. But some older masters exhibit it in some form. Take Under Siege and Bullitt for example:






Both have some pillar-boxing, but it's definitely not something I'd switch overscan on for.
Oh, that's weird; I have Under Siege on DVD and the transfer always filled my screens because of overscan...I didn't realize there's PILLARBOXING on some WIDESCREEN transfers, too...

You're right, though; those instances wouldn't require any need for overscan...
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Old 10-22-2018, 03:45 AM   #6
Deciazulado Deciazulado is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
I actually PREFER overscan on my sets
Just a note, when you ovescan a 1080 image on a 1080 HDTV set (or a 2160 on a 2160 UHD TV) the image gets a little blurry because it's being resized and the resizing fuzzes the smallest details and resolution , so you don't get the full 1080 resolution quality / sharpness.

(That's why you have the 1:1 pixel no overscan setting)
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Old 10-22-2018, 05:38 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
Alright; I'll try experimenting with Fit to Screen ON tonight and let you know how any Blu-rays or DVDs looked...
I don't think there will be any difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
The only thing I don't care for when it comes to overscan being OFF is that the wider scope films at 2.40 and 2.35 exhibit GREATER letterboxed areas, making my screen -- which I already sit too far away from (as it was in the last case too) -- seem even SMALLER because the image "shrinks" from top and bottom...
Overscan is just zooming in slightly. 1:1 doesn't shrink the image it displays it correctly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
What about 1.85:1 transfers? THOSE will exhibit some minor letterboxing on top and bottom, yes?
Without overscan? They'll look like this:



You can check your overscan with the slide below:

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Old 10-22-2018, 07:35 PM   #8
IntelliVolume IntelliVolume is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deciazulado View Post
Just a note, when you ovescan a 1080 image on a 1080 HDTV set (or a 2160 on a 2160 UHD TV) the image gets a little blurry because it's being resized and the resizing fuzzes the smallest details and resolution , so you don't get the full 1080 resolution quality / sharpness.

(That's why you have the 1:1 pixel no overscan setting)
I realize that (I even mentioned in my first post that I believe some kind of resolution loss is taking place)...however, to be fair, we don't really get a TRUE, full 1080p resolution anyway from these discs (there's always some loss due to screen shape conversions and other algorithms that take place before we see the disc's transfer).

I don't notice any blurriness, but the reason I was keeping the screen on with overscan was because I don't care for the larger black letterboxing areas on scope films.
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Old 10-22-2018, 07:42 PM   #9
IntelliVolume IntelliVolume is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip75 View Post
I don't think there will be any difference.
Well, I switched the NU8000 to "Fit to Screen: AUTO" last night before watching the DVD of the original Haunting (the black and white version from Robert Wise) and the film played back with the smaller letterboxing areas, as it always did -- in other words, the letterboxing areas didn't get larger, which they normally do when I've played with Fit to Screen: On, leading me to believe the AUTO setting isn't doing anything...

However, this brings me to:

Quote:
Overscan is just zooming in slightly. 1:1 doesn't shrink the image it displays it correctly.
Well, that's NOT what's happening on my NU8000 -- when I switch Fit to Screen ON and I'm playing a SCOPE film at either 2.35:1 or 2.40:1, the letterbox areas on top and bottom, for whatever reason, get LARGER, making the middle of the image where the film information is seem SMALLER and SHRUNKEN. This was even discussed in a thread in this very forum, where someone confirmed that leaving overscan OFF makes the black areas in the letterbox region even bigger.

HERE'S the thread:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=165523

About halfway down the first page, you will see where a member mentions this:

Screen fit. I really hate the black bars.

To which someone replies:

you do realise that screen fit makes the black bars bigger, right?


This is precisely what's happening when I engage Fit to Screen -- 2.35:1 and 2.40:1 films play back with almost massive letterboxing, and it's quite distracting.

Quote:
Without overscan? They'll look like this:

Yes -- that's what I wanted to know. Thanks for confirming.
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Old 10-22-2018, 07:53 PM   #10
chip75 chip75 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
Well, that's NOT what's happening on my NU8000 -- when I switch Fit to Screen ON and I'm playing a SCOPE film at either 2.35:1 or 2.40:1, the letterbox areas on top and bottom, for whatever reason, get LARGER, making the middle of the image where the film information is seem SMALLER and SHRUNKEN. This was even discussed in a thread in this very forum, where someone confirmed that leaving overscan OFF makes the black areas in the letterbox region even bigger.
1:1 doesn't make the black bars bigger (and the image shrink) they're displayed at 1:1. Overscan zooms in. It's just your perception, as you're just used to overscan. It was the same thing with "movie mode makes the image dimmer", it doesn't, standard and vivid modes make it brighter.
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Old 10-22-2018, 07:55 PM   #11
IntelliVolume IntelliVolume is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip75 View Post
1:1 doesn't make the black bars bigger (and the image shrink) they're displayed at 1:1. Overscan zooms in. It's just your perception, as you're just used to overscan. It was the same thing with "movie mode makes the image dimmer", it doesn't, standard and vivid modes make it brighter.
It can't just be perception; I LITERALLY SEE the areas above and below the central film image INCREASE (or, perhaps it's the middle image SHRINKING somewhat). I refer you to what a member in here said about this phenomenon, once again:

you do realise that screen fit makes the black bars bigger, right?


This was taken from that thread I linked to which was discussing this topic...
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Old 10-22-2018, 08:12 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
It can't just be perception; I LITERALLY SEE the areas above and below the central film image INCREASE (or, perhaps it's the middle image SHRINKING somewhat). I refer you to what a member in here said about this phenomenon, once again:

you do realise that screen fit makes the black bars bigger, right?


This was taken from that thread I linked to which was discussing this topic...
Perhaps perception was the wrong word. What you're saying isn't wrong, but 1:1 isn't shrinking the image (even though it's smaller), overscan is making it bigger. I guess it's a semantics thing and you're accustom to seeing the bars take up less space through overscan.
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Old 10-22-2018, 08:15 PM   #13
IntelliVolume IntelliVolume is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip75 View Post
Perhaps perception was the wrong word. What you're saying isn't wrong, but 1:1 isn't shrinking the image (even though it's smaller), overscan is making it bigger. I guess it's a semantics thing and you're accustom to seeing the bars take up less space through overscan.
Now THIS makes sense -- almost like what you were suggesting with regard to how I should view the "brighter" Standard and Dynamic picture modes compared to the "Cinema" modes: It's not that pixel for pixel is SHRINKING the image, it's that overscan was making me see it DIFFERENTLY and LARGER all those years I used it...
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Old 10-22-2018, 08:17 PM   #14
IntelliVolume IntelliVolume is offline
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So now the question becomes...why did the AUTO setting of the Samsung's Fit to Screen feature not show the DVD I watched last night in the un-overscanned version?
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Old 10-22-2018, 08:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
So now the question becomes...why did the AUTO setting of the Samsung's Fit to Screen feature not show the DVD I watched last night in the un-overscanned version?
You'll have to elaborate on that a bit for me, mate.
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Old 10-22-2018, 08:25 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip75 View Post
You'll have to elaborate on that a bit for me, mate.
Huh?

I was merely repeating what I had experienced after turning Fit to Screen on AUTO last night before watching The Haunting DVD -- using Fit to Screen AUTO, there STILL seemed to be overscan taking place when watching this disc...
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Old 10-22-2018, 08:43 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
Huh?

I was merely repeating what I had experienced after turning Fit to Screen on AUTO last night before watching The Haunting DVD -- using Fit to Screen AUTO, there STILL seemed to be overscan taking place when watching this disc...
Did you switch from Auto to On to see if there was any change whilst you watched it?
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Old 10-22-2018, 08:49 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip75 View Post
Did you switch from Auto to On to see if there was any change whilst you watched it?
No -- but I DID notice that when the OPPO startup screen was on and I went into the Samsung's Picture Size menu to switch to Screen to Fit: Auto, the "NO DISC" message on the startup screen DID move when I played around with these settings...what happened was, when the Fit to Screen moved to ON, I noticed that the NO DISC message dropped down a little, indicating to me that overscan was of course being eliminated...but when I moved to AUTO, that NO DISC message jumped back up, so AUTO must be IGNORING the Fit to Screen commands for some reason...

In other words, in order to COMPLETELY eliminate overscan, I'm going to HAVE to force Fit to Screen ON...
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Old 10-22-2018, 09:12 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
No -- but I DID notice that when the OPPO startup screen was on and I went into the Samsung's Picture Size menu to switch to Screen to Fit: Auto, the "NO DISC" message on the startup screen DID move when I played around with these settings...what happened was, when the Fit to Screen moved to ON, I noticed that the NO DISC message dropped down a little, indicating to me that overscan was of course being eliminated...but when I moved to AUTO, that NO DISC message jumped back up, so AUTO must be IGNORING the Fit to Screen commands for some reason...

In other words, in order to COMPLETELY eliminate overscan, I'm going to HAVE to force Fit to Screen ON...
It depends on how Auto treats standard definition signals outputted by the OPPO (and SD in general).
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Old 10-22-2018, 09:14 PM   #20
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Quote:
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It depends on how Auto treats standard definition signals outputted by the OPPO (and SD in general).
Oh...so the panel may IGNORE overscan: off settings when standard definition discs are played from the OPPO? I didn't know that overscan was sometimes dependent on resolution; should I try a Blu-ray with Fit to Screen on AUTO and see what happens?
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