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Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Audio > Subwoofers


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Old 08-01-2009, 05:51 AM   #41
Big Daddy Big Daddy is offline
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Originally Posted by 4TA23 View Post
I posted this same thing in one of your other threads will here too just to make sure it is seen...lol. I need help, but you do a great job at explaining all this to someone who can understand but at this point has no clue...

Ok here is a monkey wrench, I have an Onkyo 805 and I let Audessy do the settings, how does all this play since you really can not see what it set the speakers to, all one can see is under speaker config:

Fronts: Full
Center: 70Hz
Surrounds: 70 Hz
Sur backs: 60 Hz
Surr back Ch: 2ch
LPF of LFE: 100 Hz
Double base: On

Explain this to me, does one trust Audessy fully? See my sig for all equipment. Should I be looking at other areas of the set up on my reciever to get more tweaks or adjustments? Help me understand all this.

Also there is no where I can find to set my speakers to small or large is that what the Full setting is? My fronts can handle like down to 38 Hz and my center to 75 Hz aree the settings above realistic?
I answered your question in the Guide to Crossover Networks Thread.

Last edited by Big Daddy; 08-01-2009 at 05:55 AM.
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Old 08-22-2009, 06:21 PM   #42
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One question, how do you set the receiver in bass and treble? Or do you even do it? I currently have it at +6 bass and +8 treble...

*Edit: I forgot to mention is an onkyo 605
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Old 08-22-2009, 11:32 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by ijokr View Post
One question, how do you set the receiver in bass and treble? Or do you even do it? I currently have it at +6 bass and +8 treble...

*Edit: I forgot to mention is an onkyo 605
Audio purist believe that you should not use Bass and Treble. In addition, modern receivers do some equalization during the calibration process that take care of some of the audio problems in your room. However, it is your receiver and your taste. You can do anything that pleases you.
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Old 09-02-2009, 01:09 AM   #44
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[[U
Adjustment of Two Subwoofers[/U]
  1. On the back of the subs, turn their levels to 50%-60%, no higher than 75%.
  2. On the back of the subs, turn their crossovers all the way up to their maximum point. You set the crossover in the receiver.
  3. In the receiver's menu, set all speakers to SMALL.
  4. In the receiver's menu, set the crossovers of all the speakers to 80Hz. You can deviate from 80Hz depending on the low frequency extension of your speakers. Make sure the crossover is always set at least 10Hz-15Hz higher than the minimum frequency response (+-3dB) of your speakers.
  5. In the receiver's menu, set the crossover frequency of the LFE channel to 80Hz-120Hz.
  6. In the receiver's menu, set the level of the subwoofers to zero.
  7. Turn off one subwoofer.
  8. Play the test tones through the subwoofer that is on and measure its response with the SPL meter. Adjust its level on its back (not the receiver) so that you get approximately 75dB.
  9. Turn on the other subwoofer and turn off the previous subwoofer.
  10. Run test tones through it and adjust the level on its back so that you get approximately 75dB.
  11. Now, turn on both subwoofers and do not touch the levels on their back.
  12. Run the test tones again and adjust the level of all speakers. Make sure the SPL meter is held steady at a 45 degree angle at the primary listening position. Don't stand directly behind the SPL meter. Stand on the side. It is best for the SPL meter to be on a tripod.
  13. When the time comes to adjust the subwoofers, move the SPL meter slighly to the right and slightly to the left and average the dB level that it registers.
    Hopefully this will work. If you move the subwoofers or move your listening position, don't be surprised if the level of the subwoofers change drastically.

[.html[/url]
OK, I understand everything until #8. When I run the test tones what volume should the receiver be at, 0db, or is this a pre determined level the receiver sets when running test tones? Also #13 says "when it comes time to adjust the subwoofers" take an average reading then what should I do.


When I set my two different subs up I set each sub up independently with an SPL meter to 70db with the test tones then ran setup and thats it. Just wondering if this is correct.
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Old 09-02-2009, 04:29 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by erict View Post
OK, I understand everything until #8. When I run the test tones what volume should the receiver be at, 0db, or is this a pre determined level the receiver sets when running test tones? Also #13 says "when it comes time to adjust the subwoofers" take an average reading then what should I do.


When I set my two different subs up I set each sub up independently with an SPL meter to 70db with the test tones then ran setup and thats it. Just wondering if this is correct.
The first thing you want to do is that the bass you hear from each sub is approximately the same. Even if you have two identical subwoofers and you set their levels exactly the same, one subwoofer may sound louder than the other one because of their location and how they interact with the boundaries. So #8 essentially means that.

After you set the level of each sub independently, you need to make sure the combined level of the two subs matches the other speakers. If you do this with an SPL meter, you should move the meter a little to the left and a little to the right and average the readings. Even moving a few inches sometimes makes a difference.

If you use Audyssey, you should try to move the microphone to as many positions as the receiver's manual suggests. In addition, Audyssey does some basic equalization to the subwoofer's sound.
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:44 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Big Daddy View Post
The first thing you want to do is that the bass you hear from each sub is approximately the same. Even if you have two identical subwoofers and you set their levels exactly the same, one subwoofer may sound louder than the other one because of their location and how they interact with the boundaries. So #8 essentially means that.

After you set the level of each sub independently, you need to make sure the combined level of the two subs matches the other speakers. If you do this with an SPL meter, you should move the meter a little to the left and a little to the right and average the readings. Even moving a few inches sometimes makes a difference.

If you use Audyssey, you should try to move the microphone to as many positions as the receiver's manual suggests. In addition, Audyssey does some basic equalization to the subwoofer's sound.
Actually I do understand #8 it's #13 that throws me So my other speakers should be dialed in at 70db manually instead of using auto setup? Not sure what YPAO does as far as reference. That's whats really confusion me. After I dial the subs in at 70db how do I know what auto setup is dialing my speakers too. One thing I do know is the speakers are all within 1-2db of each other when checking with the SPL meter but not sure where they stand with the subs at 70db. After running auto setup does it bring the sub level in line with the speakers? Another words, when I run the test tones on my receiver I can't remember if it is a set volume or if I am able to turn the volume up during test tones

Last edited by erict; 09-02-2009 at 05:07 PM.
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Old 09-02-2009, 11:56 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by erict View Post
Actually I do understand #8 it's #13 that throws me So my other speakers should be dialed in at 70db manually instead of using auto setup? Not sure what YPAO does as far as reference. That's whats really confusion me. After I dial the subs in at 70db how do I know what auto setup is dialing my speakers too. One thing I do know is the speakers are all within 1-2db of each other when checking with the SPL meter but not sure where they stand with the subs at 70db. After running auto setup does it bring the sub level in line with the speakers? Another words, when I run the test tones on my receiver I can't remember if it is a set volume or if I am able to turn the volume up during test tones
#8 basically makes sure that the level of each sub is the same.

#13 is about the combined output of the two subs with respect to the other speakers. That is what calibration programs such as Audyssey or YPAO do. They adjust the level of these speakers by turning their levels up or down. When they adjust the sub level, that adjustment affects both subwoofers and not the individual subwoofer. This way, the combined level of both subs will match the other speakers.

Even after running YPAO, it is not a bad idea to double check the level of the speakers and the combined subwoofes. Do not adjust anything on the back of the subwoofers. When you run test tones through the other speakers, you will notice that the SPL meter is fairly stable. However, when you get to the subwoofers, you will notice that it varies a little. These long wavelengths of bass frequencies like to play a game with you. That is why I suggested to move the SPL meter a little to the left and right and average the readings.

The generally accepted calibration level for home audio is 75dB, but you are free to set your speakers higher or lower. You are also free to increase or decrease the level of your subwoofers with respect to the speakers. Make sure you do all the adjustments in the receiver and not on the back of the subwoofers.
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Old 09-03-2009, 12:21 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Big Daddy View Post
#8 basically makes sure that the level of each sub is the same.

#13 is about the combined output of the two subs with respect to the other speakers. That is what calibration programs such as Audyssey or YPAO do. They adjust the level of these speakers by turning their levels up or down. When they adjust the sub level, that adjustment affects both subwoofers and not the individual subwoofer. This way, the combined level of both subs will match the other speakers.

Even after running YPAO, it is not a bad idea to double check the level of the speakers and the combined subwoofes. Do not adjust anything on the back of the subwoofers. When you run test tones through the other speakers, you will notice that the SPL meter is fairly stable. However, when you get to the subwoofers, you will notice that it varies a little. These long wavelengths of bass frequencies like to play a game with you. That is why I suggested to move the SPL meter a little to the left and right and average the readings.

The generally accepted calibration level for home audio is 75dB, but you are free to set your speakers higher or lower. You are also free to increase or decrease the level of your subwoofers with respect to the speakers. Make sure you do all the adjustments in the receiver and not on the back of the subwoofers.

Thanks BD for the explanation It's starting to sink into my thick head now One thing though, after I dial in the subs (70db on mine) and run YPAO you say to double check after with an SPL meter. Two things, first it doesn't matter what my volume is at when I run the test tone because it will be affecting both the speakers and subs so it's an equal reading, right? Second, after setting the subs to 70db and then running setup won't this change the sub level +/-? So lets say after setup my subs read 65db should I bump them up in the receiver so they read 70db or let them be so they match the speakers?
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Old 09-03-2009, 01:29 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by erict View Post
Thanks BD for the explanation It's starting to sink into my thick head now One thing though, after I dial in the subs (70db on mine) and run YPAO you say to double check after with an SPL meter. Two things, first it doesn't matter what my volume is at when I run the test tone because it will be affecting both the speakers and subs so it's an equal reading, right? Second, after setting the subs to 70db and then running setup won't this change the sub level +/-? So lets say after setup my subs read 65db should I bump them up in the receiver so they read 70db or let them be so they match the speakers?
Theretically, the volume should be set at reference level. On some receivers, it is the zero level. Just remember to turn the volume down after calibration. The zero level is extremely loud and can damage your speakers and your hearing. On my receiver, it automatically sets the level to zero when I run the calibration program.

Practically, it really doesn't matter. It is the relative level of the speakers and subwoofers that matter. You should hear approximately the same level of output from each speaker at your main listening area.

The calibration programs adjust the levels in the receiver and set them all about equal. Normally, when you check the levels manually with an SPL meter, there should not be a big difference in speaker levels and the subwoofer. However, a couple of dB's can happen. If you like bass sound, you can increase the level of your subwoofers slightly higher than the speakers, but do it in the receiver so that both subwoofers are affected.

70dB for your speakers may be a bit low. Set them to 75dB.
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Old 09-03-2009, 02:49 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Big Daddy View Post
Theretically, the volume should be set at reference level. On some receivers, it is the zero level. Just remember to turn the volume down after calibration. The zero level is extremely loud and can damage your speakers and your hearing. On my receiver, it automatically sets the level to zero when I run the calibration program.

Practically, it really doesn't matter. It is the relative level of the speakers and subwoofers that matter. You should hear approximately the same level of output from each speaker at your main listening area.

The calibration programs adjust the levels in the receiver and set them all about equal. Normally, when you check the levels manually with an SPL meter, there should not be a big difference in speaker levels and the subwoofer. However, a couple of dB's can happen. If you like bass sound, you can increase the level of your subwoofers slightly higher than the speakers, but do it in the receiver so that both subwoofers are affected.

70dB for your speakers may be a bit low. Set them to 75dB.
Thanks again BD. I not sure how to tell if my Yamaha 663 sets the 0 level as reference during calibration but I did notice when I run YPAO the volume rises in steps when it first starts. Does this sound like it's setting reference level at 0db?
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Old 09-03-2009, 02:50 AM   #51
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Thanks again BD. I not sure how to tell if my Yamaha 663 sets the 0 level as reference during calibration but I did notice when I run YPAO the volume rises in steps when it first starts. Does this sound like it's setting reference level at 0db?
Many receivers have a set volume for calibration. I assume your receiver is doing that.
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Old 09-03-2009, 02:59 AM   #52
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Many receivers have a set volume for calibration. I assume your receiver is doing that.
Is there a way to tell what the receiver sets reference level volume at or should I not even worry about it

Also, when I run the test tone through my subs to dial them in what should the volume on the receiver be at to achieve a 75db dial in? I know I adjust the subs on the back of them when dialing them in but doesn't the volume of the test tone play a role in this if it's to low or high?

Last edited by erict; 09-03-2009 at 03:21 AM.
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Old 09-03-2009, 03:20 AM   #53
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Is there a way to tell what the receiver sets reference level volume at or should I not even worry about it

Also, when I run the test tone through my subs to dial them in what should the volume on the receiver be at? I know I adjust the subs on the back of them when dialing them in but doesn't the volume of the test tone play a role in this if it's to low or high?
Don't worry about them. The receiver takes care of the calibration volume automatically.

I set the volume of my receiver to zero level and also set the subwoofer's gain in the receiver to zero and then run test tones through the receiver to adjust each subwoofer separately. As long as the levels are matched, it doesn't matter what the volume is. The calibration program takes care of matching the total level of all speakers/subwoofers.

When you run the built-in test tones in your receiver manually, does the level of test tones increase or decrease when you adjust the volume on the receiver?
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Old 09-03-2009, 03:26 AM   #54
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Don't worry about them. The receiver takes care of the calibration volume automatically.

I set the volume of my receiver to zero level and also set the subwoofer's gain in the receiver to zero and then run test tones through the receiver to adjust each subwoofer separately. As long as the levels are matched, it doesn't matter what the volume is. The calibration program takes care of matching the total level of all speakers/subwoofers.

When you run the built-in test tones in your receiver manually, does the level of test tones increase or decrease when you adjust the volume on the receiver?
Both increase and decrease (my volume adjust how loud it sounds). Thats what I cant figure out. If I set my receivers volume to 0db like you do and the subs gain in the receiver to 0 the test tone will be loud as hell, so in turn I would be setting my subs gain on the back of the subs really low to dial them in at 75db. Am I missing something?

Last edited by erict; 09-03-2009 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 09-03-2009, 12:48 PM   #55
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Both increase and decrease (my volume adjust how loud it sounds). Thats what I cant figure out. If I set my receivers volume to 0db like you do and the subs gain in the receiver to 0 the test tone will be loud as hell, so in turn I would be setting my subs gain on the back of the subs really low to dial them in at 75db. Am I missing something?
Any idea BD?

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Old 09-03-2009, 02:20 PM   #56
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Lower the receiver's volume. Set the gain for the Front Left speaker in the receiver to zero. Play test tone through the receiver for the left front channel. Increase the volume until the SPL meter reads 75dB. After that, don't touch the volume and adjust the level of all the speakers by turning the gains in the receiver so that all the speakers give you 75dB. In effect, your front left speaker has become your reference speaker.
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Old 09-03-2009, 02:32 PM   #57
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Lower the receiver's volume. Set the gain for the Front Left speaker in the receiver to zero. Play test tone through the receiver for the left front channel. Increase the volume until the SPL meter reads 75dB. After that, don't touch the volume and adjust the level of all the speakers by turning the gains in the receiver so that all the speakers give you 75dB. In effect, your front left speaker has become your reference speaker.
OK, I will try this. When it comes time to dial the subs do I adjust the subs gains independently to achieve 75db as well? So I will just end up setting all speakers manually instead of using auto setup?
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Old 09-03-2009, 02:37 PM   #58
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OK, I will try this. When it comes time to dial the subs do I adjust the subs gains independently to achieve 75db as well?
Yes, don't adjust the volume on the receiver. Just adjust the levels on their backs until each sub gives you the same level at your main listening area. After that, make sure the combined level of both subs matches the other speakers by adjusting the sub level in the receiver.
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Old 09-03-2009, 11:52 PM   #59
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Yes, don't adjust the volume on the receiver. Just adjust the levels on their backs until each sub gives you the same level at your main listening area. After that, make sure the combined level of both subs matches the other speakers by adjusting the sub level in the receiver.
So after following you're above instructions what ever my volume ends up at for the left front speaker will be my reference level, Just as an example if it ends up that my volume is at -15db and my left front speaker has a 75db reading on the SPL meter, then my reference lever is -15db, correct? Also before I adjust the subs gains I should have the level at 0 in my receiver, right?


And just so I understand, to correctly dial in two subs with my Yamaha receiver, I have no choice but to set up all my speakers manually and not use auto setup, right?


Is it odd that I'm able to raise and lower the test tones on my receiver? Have you run into this before.

Last edited by erict; 09-03-2009 at 11:55 PM.
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Old 09-04-2009, 12:26 AM   #60
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So after following you're above instructions what ever my volume ends up at for the left front speaker will be my reference level, Just as an example if it ends up that my volume is at -15db and my left front speaker has a 75db reading on the SPL meter, then my reference lever is -15db, correct? Also before I adjust the subs gains I should have the level at 0 in my receiver, right?
The answer to both questions is yes. Remember that all the speakers should give you the same 75dB level. What you call reference is really the irrelevant.

Quote:
And just so I understand, to correctly dial in two subs with my Yamaha receiver, I have no choice but to set up all my speakers manually and not use auto setup, right?
Yes and No. You only need to adjust the levels of each subwoofer manually so that they give you approximately the same level. After that, you can run the Auto Setup and let the receiver automatically adjust your speakers. You always have the option of tweaking them a little manually.

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Is it odd that I'm able to raise and lower the test tones on my receiver? Have you run into this before.
No, I have owned many receivers over the years and each one is a little different.
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