The Official IMPRINT Thread (Aussie Boutique Label)

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by jkoffman

I just watched this one for the first time and (without measuring) 2.35:1 seems accurate.





One thing I've regularly noticed on the site's database are AR discrepancies between the original theatrical AR listed under the Movie master, and the AR listed in the BD entry. When I see 2.39:1 as the original and 2.35:1 on the BD, I usually assume that's as close to OG as we'll get.

Example: Here's the 2012 German SC release that lists 2.35:1 on the back of the case, but in the database it says the BD is 2.40:1. IMDB can be wrong, but it says theatrical is 2.39:1.

2.35:1, 2.39:1 and 2.40:1 are functionally the same thing, they're all what's known as "scope."

Scope films used to commonly be presented at 2.35:1, but the seams between cuts were sometimes visible as a flashing while line along the bottom or top of the frame for a single frame, so the widely used framing was adjusted to 2.39:1 or 2.40:1.

Obviously visible seams between cuts are a non-issue with digital, but the three aspect ratios are all still pretty interchangeable.

[DawnShadow]

Originally Posted by Necora

When you say the release "is a dud" you mean the Directors cut is missing an audio line in the new HD edition but the bonus disc, final cut & theatrical cut and the box artwork are all excellent. Far from a "dud".

Considering it essentially makes it a pointless release, dud is pretty fair.

He mentioned way more issues than just one line of audio too.

[Chumpster99]

Originally Posted by Necora

When you say the release "is a dud" you mean the Directors cut is missing an audio line in the new HD edition but the bonus disc, final cut & theatrical cut and the box artwork are all excellent. Far from a "dud".

I don't know what you think being snide and putting words in my mouth will accomplish, but it certainly doesn't sway my opinion.

The set has little extra bonus content compared to the previous Australian release, everything that is 'excellent' on this new release was already excellent on the prior, much cheaper discs. In fact, none of the new features are relevant contemporary material to the film - nor does it involve any of the original cast/crew from what I can tell! It mainly seems to be all just new interviews and commentaries from assorted fans/critics in fact.

So for 120 whole dollars, you get: A bunch of non-crucial interviews with random folks and a commentary with some BFI people. And that's really all you get over the ~15 AUD 2-disc release. The director's cut is not only just as botched as it was prior, with no attempts to fix the flaws introduced back when it was first released on DVD - a new error has been introduced to make it even MORE botched.

For over a hundred dollars for just a single film, which was a bit crazy to begin with even assuming they did a perfect director's cut presentation, I would expect a whole lot more care be put into the product, and frankly I think me and you and everyone should expect better for a tidy sum like that too. As it stands, all I got out of it that's of interest to me is an (admittedly appealing) glossy cardboard box that isn't worth anywhere near $100 on its own.

I won't complain too much. Somebody had to be the bearer of bad news and be the first to test the waters, I can afford the loss and hope others don't make the mistake I did. But I think it reflects extremely poorly on Imprint as it's not reasonable to charge ~120 dollars for a product they haven't put the proper care into, which is already available within the very same country for ~15 dollars while providing roughly equal content and a slightly more accurate presentation of the Director's Cut - which for many including myself is the only way to enjoy the film to its fullest.

It's sad. At the price they ask for it I'd say the issue warrants a disc replacement, but would we really get one? The pessimist in me says, no, probably nary an acknowledgment anything is wrong would ever come of it. I'm just too jaded at this point, both on labels ignoring issues and people popping out of the woodworks to trivialize it and imply people are nuts for caring. I'd really love to be proven wrong, but with this being a limited set and all the usual factors working against it, I won't hold my breath.

So yes, it is a dud. A great, big, thundering dud. And I take no amount of pleasure in saying that, having pre-ordered and eagerly awaited hoping to see and hear good news.

[Mr. Thomsen]

Hm, that seriously makes me consider cancelling mine. It's currently on hold as I pre-ordered it with The Warriors, and I already own the excellent SC release.

I can understand why some might think these mistakes are minor, not at least considering some of them were already present in the existing SD version of the Director's Cut. But the point is that all of these errors are much more forgivable in a cheap $15 release than they are in a prestige $100+ limited edition box, which even has the spiffy new HD version of the director's cut as it main selling point.

Imprint really should fix this!

I am also too jaded with labels, though, and am not holding my breath.

[Necora]

Originally Posted by Chumpster99

I don't know what you think being snide and putting words in my mouth will accomplish, but it certainly doesn't sway my opinion.

The set has little extra bonus content compared to the previous Australian release, everything that is 'excellent' on this new release was already excellent on the prior, much cheaper discs. In fact, none of the new features are relevant contemporary material to the film - nor does it involve any of the original cast/crew from what I can tell! It mainly seems to be all just new interviews and commentaries from assorted fans/critics in fact.

So for 120 whole dollars, you get: A bunch of non-crucial interviews with random folks and a commentary with some BFI people. And that's really all you get over the ~15 AUD 2-disc release. The director's cut is not only just as botched as it was prior, with no attempts to fix the flaws introduced back when it was first released on DVD - a new error has been introduced to make it even MORE botched.

For over a hundred dollars for just a single film, which was a bit crazy to begin with even assuming they did a perfect director's cut presentation, I would expect a whole lot more care be put into the product, and frankly I think me and you and everyone should expect better for a tidy sum like that too. As it stands, all I got out of it that's of interest to me is an (admittedly appealing) glossy cardboard box that isn't worth anywhere near $100 on its own.

I won't complain too much. Somebody had to be the bearer of bad news and be the first to test the waters, I can afford the loss and hope others don't make the mistake I did. But I think it reflects extremely poorly on Imprint as it's not reasonable to charge ~120 dollars for a product they haven't put the proper care into, which is already available within the very same country for ~15 dollars while providing roughly equal content and a slightly more accurate presentation of the Director's Cut - which for many including myself is the only way to enjoy the film to its fullest.

It's sad. At the price they ask for it I'd say the issue warrants a disc replacement, but would we really get one? The pessimist in me says, no, probably nary an acknowledgment anything is wrong would ever come of it. I'm just too jaded at this point, both on labels ignoring issues and people popping out of the woodworks to trivialize it and imply people are nuts for caring. I'd really love to be proven wrong, but with this being a limited set and all the usual factors working against it, I won't hold my breath.

So yes, it is a dud. A great, big, thundering dud. And I take no amount of pleasure in saying that, having pre-ordered and eagerly awaited hoping to see and hear good news.

haaa. Not trying to sway anyone's opinion and you certainly don't sway mine. I don't agree. It's a great box set. We all have choices, dont buy it. Take it back to where your puchased it and move on with your life.

[DawnShadow]

Originally Posted by Necora

haaa. Not trying to sway anyone's opinion and you certainly don't sway mine. I don't agree. It's a great box set. We all have choices, dont buy it. Take it back to where your puchased it and move on with your life.

He’s right, no matter how funny. He also didn’t try to sway anyone’s opinion or tell you not to enjoy your set.

[Necora]

Originally Posted by DawnShadow

He’s right, no matter how funny. He also didn’t try to sway anyone’s opinion or tell you not to enjoy your set.

For sure, but he isn't right. At all. I'm glad you are here to defend others.

[Chumpster99]

Originally Posted by Necora

haaa. Not trying to sway anyone's opinion and you certainly don't sway mine. I don't agree. It's a great box set. We all have choices, dont buy it. Take it back to where your puchased it and move on with your life.

I literally just said I wasn't gonna dwell on it and instead move on and just hope this informs others' purchases. So yes, I am moving on with my life... lol. Had no idea it would be this botched when i bought it, but hopefully others now know before they buy. Oh well, so is life, yadda yadda. Someone's gotta be the guinea pig and so on and so forth. In any case I'm just stating the facts of what is indeed wrong with the director's cut on this release, nothing more and nothing less. You're satisfied and that's great, but if the roles were reversed I sure wouldn't be talking all rude and mocking you for wanting better. I'm of the persuasion that I hope everyone is happy with their purchases.

As for returns, had to import it! So sadly not so easy to just take it / send it back, and as I can ultimately take the loss just fine and don't want to bother with the headache of having to try and hassle to get a return and shipping it all across the world... yeah, again, I am happily moving on with life, that's exactly what I'm doing.

[Filmmaker]

Originally Posted by Chumpster99

So for 120 whole dollars, you get: A bunch of non-crucial interviews with random folks and a commentary with some BFI people. And that's really all you get over the ~15 AUD 2-disc release. The director's cut is not only just as botched as it was prior, with no attempts to fix the flaws introduced back when it was first released on DVD - a new error has been introduced to make it even MORE botched.

Let me begin by saying I appreciate your enlightening breakdown and recognize the value in you pointing out the DC’s shortcomings on the Imprint set. I do feel compelled to point out one area where your analysis seems disingenuous, though. To my knowledge, this remains the only edition on the planet to use the superior full-HD quality (OCN?) footage for the scenes the DC shares with the TC. So, yes, they’ve introduced a slight issue with the one Christopher Lee line (though if it’s how it sounded in the TC, then I personally see that less as an error than an alternate), but they’ve also holistically given us a far easier on the eyes presentation of the complete DC. I say this not to forgive Imprint’s failings but they also deserve recognition for their successes, too.

[Chumpster99]

Originally Posted by Filmmaker

Let me begin by saying I appreciate your enlightening breakdown and recognize the value in you pointing out the DC’s shortcomings on the Imprint set. I do feel compelled to point out one area where your analysis seems disingenuous, though. To my knowledge, this remains the only edition on the planet to use the superior full-HD quality (OCN?) footage for the scenes the DC shares with the TC. So, yes, they’ve introduced a slight issue with the one Christopher Lee line (though if it’s how it sounded in the TC, then I personally see that less as an error than an alternate), but they’ve also holistically given us a far easier on the eyes presentation of the complete DC. I say this not to forgive Imprint’s failings but they also deserve recognition for their successes, too.

I see what you mean, and I'd like to elabourate in that the issue here is Imprint are charging an exorbitant price for nothing a dedicated fan can't do with a couple of days' work. Fixing the errors or simply not introducing new ones is what I'd ideally like to see but it simply hasn't been that way. Plus there are a few shots that are bizarrely still SD despite being shared footage!

As for the line, the issue is it's still not accurate to how the director's cut should be, and they should never have intermingled the audio mixes without serious consideration for their discrepancies. The authenticity of the old VHS source is certainly not in question, as it doesn't get much more authentic than Corman's print, which IIRC is what that VHS was directly transferred from. (The print sadly went missing in later years, so no high quality transfer ever happened.)

And to tie it all together: I bought the Magnum VHS of the long cut and the old AU Final Cut BD for less than half of what this set cost. With those two, and a method of digitizing the tape, I could very literally do a better job in a few days recreating it.

If this was ~45 dollars I wouldn't mind as much. But this is ~120 dollars here, for little more than ~15 can get you with the old AU blu-ray.

Ultimately my point is the price is absurd, and if Imprint is asking that much they really ought to make sure they know what they're doing first rather than bungle the one big selling point of a release that should have been closer to 80 dollars anyways to begin with, even if they got the DC perfect.

[Filmmaker]

Originally Posted by Chumpster99

Ultimately my point is the price is absurd, and if Imprint is asking that much they really ought to make sure they know what they're doing first rather than bungle the one big selling point of a release that should have been closer to 80 dollars anyways to begin with, even if they got the DC perfect.

On this point, you’ll get no argument from me. I went into my purchase eyes wide open and knew I was getting gouged, but yes, there isn’t $120 USD worth of effort here. I still feel like it’s the best version of the DC officially released thus far, audio quibbles notwithstanding, but yeah, strictly on a monetary level, we’re getting hosed.

[DawnShadow]

Originally Posted by Necora

For sure, but he isn't right. At all. I'm glad you are here to defend others.

He provided some incredibly thorough and helpful information that I’m sure will help many buyers and save them their money. I don’t know why you seem to imagine he’s in some kind of war with you and needs defending.

[NKB2017]

Originally Posted by Chumpster99

I see what you mean, and I'd like to elabourate in that the issue here is Imprint are charging an exorbitant price for nothing a dedicated fan can't do with a couple of days' work. Fixing the errors or simply not introducing new ones is what I'd ideally like to see but it simply hasn't been that way. Plus there are a few shots that are bizarrely still SD despite being shared footage!

As for the line, the issue is it's still not accurate to how the director's cut should be, and they should never have intermingled the audio mixes without serious consideration for their discrepancies. The authenticity of the old VHS source is certainly not in question, as it doesn't get much more authentic than Corman's print, which IIRC is what that VHS was directly transferred from. (The print sadly went missing in later years, so no high quality transfer ever happened.)

And to tie it all together: I bought the Magnum VHS of the long cut and the old AU Final Cut BD for less than half of what this set cost. With those two, and a method of digitizing the tape, I could very literally do a better job in a few days recreating it.

If this was ~45 dollars I wouldn't mind as much. But this is ~120 dollars here, for little more than ~15 can get you with the old AU blu-ray.

Ultimately my point is the price is absurd, and if Imprint is asking that much they really ought to make sure they know what they're doing first rather than bungle the one big selling point of a release that should have been closer to 80 dollars anyways to begin with, even if they got the DC perfect.

I too really appreciate your input and review.
I'm an avid fan of the film and while annoyed more effort was not taken... I'm begrudgingly satisfied with seeing the Director's Cut with a (by and large) increased level of detail and a more pleasant picture. The sound issue(s) are unfortunate though.
Hopefully the rest of the set in terms of extras, theatrical cut, and final cut, are all top notch. So that (while expensive for what it is) this set offers the best currently available (warts and all).
What were the opening credit issues you refer too please??
Thank you again!

[Chumpster99]

Originally Posted by NKB2017

I too really appreciate your input and review.
I'm an avid fan of the film and while annoyed more effort was not taken... I'm begrudgingly satisfied with seeing the Director's Cut with a (by and large) increased level of detail and a more pleasant picture. The sound issue(s) are unfortunate though.
Hopefully the rest of the set in terms of extras, theatrical cut, and final cut, are all top notch. So that (while expensive for what it is) this set offers the best currently available (warts and all).
What were the opening credit issues you refer too please??
Thank you again!

The opening credits for the director's cut are edited differently in terms of the shots of the plane & landscapes below, and some people are only credited in that version. Magnet is also credited as 'Lodestone' IIRC in the director's cut. The DC on DVD/Blu wrongly switches to the theatrical cut footage halfway thru the credits.

Rest of the set is fine, but sadly you can get the vast majority of the extras + the all three cuts (Albeit with DC in SD) on the much cheaper 2-disc Australian release.

[Rayjg]

Man, glad I read this before it came back in stock at any US retailers

[lemonski]

Originally Posted by Chumpster99

And to tie it all together: I bought the Magnum VHS of the long cut and the old AU Final Cut BD for less than half of what this set cost. With those two, and a method of digitizing the tape, I could very literally do a better job in a few days recreating it.

Who want to do all that though? Nobody.

Originally Posted by Chumpster99

Ultimately my point is the price is absurd, and if Imprint is asking that much they really ought to make sure they know what they're doing first rather than bungle the one big selling point of a release that should have been closer to 80 dollars anyways to begin with, even if they got the DC perfect.

If you thought the price was absurd, why did you pay it in the first place? It will be under $100 at the next JB Hi-Fi sale, so there's no particular need to pay full price. If that's still too expensive, then there's always the option not to buy it

[Chumpster99]

Originally Posted by lemonski

Who want to do all that though? Nobody.

I would, for one. Hell, I'm probably gonna see about doing it myself once I can get things set up. Ideally though... Imprint shoulda done the corrections, even if it meant releasing the set later in the year rather than earlier or whatever else might need to be done. I can understand a 15 dollar cheapo release porting over the exact old flawed DVD transfer... but a massive 100+ dollar box set for enthusiasts where they're already putting in new work assembling a new transfer of that cut is where I start to expect that prior flaws should be corrected, or at the very very least no new ones introduced.

Originally Posted by lemonski

If you thought the price was absurd, why did you pay it in the first place? It will be under $100 at the next JB Hi-Fi sale, so there's no particular need to pay full price. If that's still too expensive, then there's always the option not to buy it

Three reasons. Two minor, one major.
1: Not wanting to risk it selling out, not even slightly risk it. It's a very popular movie compared to most Imprint releases I'd say.
2: Expecting that for that much money they'd at least not introduce any more errors, and that they'd hopefully fix at least some these already-known errors.

And most importantly of all the biggest reason I bought it:

3: So that I could check for myself and report back on this issue precisely. Wasn't just gonna sit back and expect someone else to do the work for me. And again, I'm not going to complain too much. I'm just glad I could be informative for some. I did not have the luxury of knowing in advance whether or not the director's cut presentation on this set was all that good. Now others do, and that's fine enough for me to not feel too bad about my purchase.

[DawnShadow]

Man, that’s like asking someone why they paid for an expensive 4K disc and complained that the disc had issues (such as edits, out of sync audio etc.) There’s no difference here.

He paid the price because he expected to get what he paid for. He didn’t. They didn’t advertise that the set was going to have the issues, therefore it isn’t what he paid for.

[lemonski]

Originally Posted by Chumpster99

Three reasons. Two minor, one major.
1: Not wanting to risk it selling out, not even slightly risk it. It's a very popular movie compared to most Imprint releases I'd say.

If you walked into a JB Hi-Fi store I think you'd be surprised how long some Imprint titles actually hang around. I was in one yesterday (picking up a copy of the Wicker Man, as it happens), they still had a copy of When Worlds Collide LE from the first wave and two copies of Day of the Locust sitting on the shelf.

Originally Posted by Chumpster99

3: So that I could check for myself and report back on this issue precisely. Wasn't just gonna sit back and expect someone else to do the work for me.

Fair enough - and if there are people to whom these issues matter, then I'm sure your comments would be helpful in their buying decision. But demanding a disc recall and calling it a complete dud is just ridiculous hyperbole.

[lemonski]

Originally Posted by DawnShadow

Man, that’s like asking someone why they paid for an expensive 4K disc and complained that the disc had issues (such as edits, out of sync audio etc.) There’s no difference here.

He paid the price because he expected to get what he paid for. He didn’t. They didn’t advertise that the set was going to have the issues, therefore it isn’t what he paid for.

Return it then. There are consumer laws in Australia and New Zealand that protect you when a product is not as described or not fit for purpose - you are entitled to a full refund.