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Old 02-14-2021, 02:45 AM   #801
Nosferatu31 Nosferatu31 is offline
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I have both They Live and POD still sealed after buying them over a week ago. It sounds like POD is safe to open and keep but what about the Blu-ray copy included with They Live? How does it look compared to the previous collector's edition release and is it worth keeping the UHD just for the new Blu-ray?
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Old 02-14-2021, 02:52 AM   #802
bubbafett73 bubbafett73 is offline
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There are color differences to me on POD too, but nobody much has talked about that release at all. I guess not many people have gotten it.

EDIT- Kibbe signed off on the SC restoration. Shouldn't we give more regards to it in reference to the color? Shout used the same signed off restoration, so why would the colors be so different? I read a article at American Cinematography and it confused me. Here is the article https://ascmag.com/articles/from-outer-space-they-live . Even the colors of the stills in this article that Shout

I am going to paste here what is relevant to me and hopefully someone with more knowledge ( cough Geoff D cough ) will explain this to me.

"A veteran operator, Kibbe’s lighting style for They Live is a direct outgrowth of the storyline. “John likes a modern-day, realistic look,” he describes. “I pretty much key on low light levels, combining bounce and hard light for emphasis on certain things. Sometimes, I’ll let areas fall off, and then subtly draw attention by hitting something in the background. Working in low levels allows you that subtlety, whereas being deeper, in terms of light balance relationships, tends to make things go black on you faster.

“We shot anamorphic, with Panavision cameras and Ultraspeed lenses. With some of these, we can get down to 1.4. We stayed pretty much between 16 and 20 foot candles for the key, but for some of the larger interior scenes, like the unemployment office and the Biltmore Hotel, that went up to around 25. John shoots all of his pictures in Panavison anamorphic. We almost went to Super 35, but decided to avoid losing another generation. We used Eastman 5294 for night exteriors, and 47 for the day. I tested everything that Eastman had, and I still felt that 47, in terms of richness of color, is what came out best for us. We were shooting in a lot of dingy, grungy places, with textured walls, and for areas like that, I felt that the 47 would give a little more. Also, I’m more familiar with 47 than 97. "

This seems contradictory to me. He talks about the modern-day realistic look which you would think would be a more natural less colorful picture like the Shout. Then he talks about using the 47 because of the richness of color. That sounds to me like it would be more like the SC colors. It was shot in 35 mm too which wouldn't that have more rich colors? I just don't think the coloring should look more orange then red on the Shout, but I seem to be in the minority on this. Maybe the SC is too colorful, but I would rather have that then the dull Shout. I don't know why this is bothering me so much, but it really is.

Last edited by bubbafett73; 02-14-2021 at 03:18 AM. Reason: more information
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Old 02-14-2021, 03:05 AM   #803
slimdude slimdude is online now
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Originally Posted by JG85 View Post
So am I better off just getting the blu-ray instead of the 4K? I was extremely close to getting They Live 4K & Prince of Darkness 4K today until I came into this thread. I don't own either on blu-ray yet.
Since the Blu-rays are included in the pack, you might as well pay the extra few dollars and buy the 4K UHD.
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Old 02-14-2021, 03:14 AM   #804
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Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
Yikes. I didn't know that the American flag has orange stripes, as seen in the Shout.
Hmm... the flag stripes in the 4K Shout cap are definitely red on my laptop; not even a little "orange". I'll just have to spin the actual disc when I eventually get back to my home theater from the seemingly-eternal gig I'm on. This comparing-over-computer ain't workin'. At any rate, I pulled the trigger on these weeks ago, so the shiny discs are already sitting there waiting to be loved, and I do also own the Studio Canal discs. But yeah... if you're sayin' the flag stripes are orange on that 4K Shout cap, then I'm seeing something different.
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Old 02-14-2021, 03:19 AM   #805
Nosferatu31 Nosferatu31 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
Yikes. I didn't know that the American flag has orange stripes, as seen in the Shout.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steel_breeze View Post
Hmm... the flag stripes in the 4K Shout cap are definitely red on my laptop; not even a little "orange". I'll just have to spin the actual disc when I eventually get back to my home theater from the seemingly-eternal gig I'm on. This comparing-over-computer ain't workin'. At any rate, I pulled the trigger on these weeks ago, so the shiny discs are already sitting there waiting to be loved, and I do also own the Studio Canal discs. But yeah... if you're sayin' the flag stripes are orange on that 4K Shout cap, then I'm seeing something different.
They're definitely red on my laptop too.
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Old 02-14-2021, 03:30 AM   #806
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lol I'm still confused on if I should at least get POD or not. I'll definitely wait a bit on They Live though.
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Old 02-14-2021, 03:42 AM   #807
slimdude slimdude is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbafett73 View Post
There are color differences to me on POD too, but nobody much has talked about that release at all. I guess not many people have gotten it.

EDIT- Kibbe signed off on the SC restoration. Shouldn't we give more regards to it in reference to the color? Shout used the same signed off restoration, so why would the colors be so different? I read a article at American Cinematography and it confused me. Here is the article https://ascmag.com/articles/from-outer-space-they-live . Even the colors of the stills in this article that Shout

I am going to paste here what is relevant to me and hopefully someone with more knowledge ( cough Geoff D cough ) will explain this to me.

"A veteran operator, Kibbe’s lighting style for They Live is a direct outgrowth of the storyline. “John likes a modern-day, realistic look,” he describes. “I pretty much key on low light levels, combining bounce and hard light for emphasis on certain things. Sometimes, I’ll let areas fall off, and then subtly draw attention by hitting something in the background. Working in low levels allows you that subtlety, whereas being deeper, in terms of light balance relationships, tends to make things go black on you faster.

“We shot anamorphic, with Panavision cameras and Ultraspeed lenses. With some of these, we can get down to 1.4. We stayed pretty much between 16 and 20 foot candles for the key, but for some of the larger interior scenes, like the unemployment office and the Biltmore Hotel, that went up to around 25. John shoots all of his pictures in Panavison anamorphic. We almost went to Super 35, but decided to avoid losing another generation. We used Eastman 5294 for night exteriors, and 47 for the day. I tested everything that Eastman had, and I still felt that 47, in terms of richness of color, is what came out best for us. We were shooting in a lot of dingy, grungy places, with textured walls, and for areas like that, I felt that the 47 would give a little more. Also, I’m more familiar with 47 than 97. "

This seems contradictory to me. He talks about the modern-day realistic look which you would think would be a more natural less colorful picture like the Shout. Then he talks about using the 47 because of the richness of color. That sounds to me like it would be more like the SC colors. It was shot in 35 mm too which wouldn't that have more rich colors? I just don't think the coloring should look more orange then red on the Shout, but I seem to be in the minority on this. Maybe the SC is too colorful, but I would rather have that then the dull Shout. I don't know why this is bothering me so much, but it really is.
It's possibly OCD, when you allow something like that sincerely bother you, when there's nothing you can do about it. Just to prevent a lot of unnecessary stress and agony watch and enjoy the movie(s) because, if you try to search and find every flaw and imperfection in the video, and let it affect you to that degree, you're going to end up in a mental institution. If you look for trouble you're going to find it.

Last edited by slimdude; 02-14-2021 at 03:46 AM.
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Old 02-14-2021, 04:14 AM   #808
bubbafett73 bubbafett73 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slimdude View Post
It's possibly OCD, when you allow something like that sincerely bother you, when there's nothing you can do about it. Just to prevent a lot of unnecessary stress and agony watch and enjoy the movie(s) because, if you try to search and find every flaw and imperfection in the video, and let it affect you to that degree, you're going to end up in a mental institution. If you look for trouble you're going to find it.
You are always such a great help slimdude. I didn't know you were a psychiatrist. Learn something everyday.
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Old 02-14-2021, 04:17 AM   #809
DR Herbert West DR Herbert West is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosferatu31 View Post
but what about the Blu-ray copy included with They Live? How does it look compared to the previous collector's edition release
It's a major upgrade over the old Blu.
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Old 02-14-2021, 04:50 AM   #810
Cliff Cliff is offline
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Originally Posted by steel_breeze View Post
I know personal taste doesn't enter into this conversation, 'cuz it's really about Director and DP (rest in peace) intentions as well as pure objective fact, when it comes to whether or not the wrong color space was used... but... having issued that overlong disclaimer... my taste would definitely run in between these two extremes. I've always had to de-saturate my SC disc, 'cuz the colors look too jacked-up to my eyes, and yet the new SF colors do seem too drained. When I finally get a chance to spin these discs (including Prince of Darkness) I'll have to make a choice: do I want to de-saturate the SC discs, or SLIGHTLY saturate the Shout release?
I just compared to the Shout Factory UHD disc to the Studio Canal UHD and on my system (LG 77C8 with Oppo 203) and to my eyes (viewing both in Dolby Vision), the Shout looks great while the Studio Canal looks oversaturated and darker. While the Shout might feel undersaturated in back and forth comparative stills with the SC, in motion is looks totally natural, perfectly saturated and very in line with what my brain tells me They Live should look like. Fleshtones look natural and, while again, it may not look as punchy, it looks like a movie shot on 35mm film in 1988. Now having seen the Shout disc, the SC looks somewhat artificial and too contrasty. I think the perception that the SC is more saturated is somewhat driven by this higher contrast, but darker look and, in my estimation, they pushed the HDR grade to hard. In fact, on the SC disc, the white letters of the opening credits actually have a noticeable yellow tint that inexplicably goes to the proper white after the "Edited by Gib Jaffe and Frank E. Jimenez" credit. That anomaly alone makes me wonder what other color shenanigans are happening on the SC disc that have gone unobserved.

Bottom line as someone who has both and just looked at both... Shout Factory's is easily the one to get.


Quote:
Originally Posted by steel_breeze View Post
But yeah... if you're sayin' the flag stripes are orange on that 4K Shout cap, then I'm seeing something different.
Red stripes on my system as well (the actually disc/transfer), not even a hint of orange.

Last edited by Cliff; 02-14-2021 at 05:00 AM.
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Old 02-14-2021, 10:19 AM   #811
andreasy969 andreasy969 is online now
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Just made use of deepdiscount's 15% off president's day offer and will see for myself with both as well now. Price is still not great, especially considering the double dips, but good enough now and should hopefully also still come with slip.

(The 3rd disc, to make it the required 3, was Moonlight in my case, which I don't own at all yet, but had on my list - never found proper info on that one re. upgrade worthiness, so will be interesting as well.)
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Old 02-14-2021, 08:00 PM   #812
DaylightsEnd DaylightsEnd is online now
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Originally Posted by Cliff View Post
I just compared the Shout Factory UHD disc to the Studio Canal UHD and on my system (LG 77C8 with Oppo 203) and to my eyes, the Shout looks great while the Studio Canal looks oversaturated and darker. While the Shout might feel undersaturated in back and forth comparative stills with the SC, in motion is looks totally natural, perfectly saturated and very in line with what my brain tells me They Live should look like. Fleshtones look natural and, while again, it may not look as punchy, it looks like a movie shot on 35mm film in 1988. Now having seen the Shout disc, the SC looks somewhat artificial and too contrasty. ....... In fact, on the SC disc, the white letters of the opening credits actually have a noticeable yellow tint that inexplicably goes to the proper white after the "Edited by Gib Jaffe and Frank E. Jimenez" credit. That anomaly alone makes me wonder what other color shenanigans are happening on the SC disc that have gone unobserved.

Bottom line as someone who has both and just looked at both... Shout Factory's is easily the one to get.

Red stripes on my system as well (the actually disc/transfer), not even a hint of orange.
Right or wrong as regards original look of the film and/or director's intent, the above were my observations and subjective conclusion as well, for the most part. Granted, I also compared the discs on my own 75" LG oled and Oppo player. Our perceptions of these discs are heavily based on the a/v equipment we use, so I am not surprised. Nor am I surprised that peoples' opinions of these discs will vary greatly, since both discs respectively have their own particular maladies. The best way to decide is to buy both and compare them on your own gear. Keep them both for their own distinct presentations, or just keep the disc you prefer. I kept both discs.
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Old 02-15-2021, 02:26 AM   #813
Bassaholic Bassaholic is offline
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Just watched my SF disc. It will be the version I watch from now on. If I only had my SC, I would be ok with it, but I prefer the color on the SF disc. As Cliff stated, they are much more natural.

btw....no orange stripes either.

Last edited by Bassaholic; 02-15-2021 at 03:05 AM.
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