Best iTunes Music Deals


Best iTunes Music Deals, See All the Deals »
Top deals | New deals  
 All countries United States United Kingdom Canada Germany France Spain Italy Australia Netherlands Japan Mexico
Peter Gabriel: So (iTunes)
$11.99
19 hrs ago
TOOL: Lateralus (iTunes)
$9.99
19 hrs ago
Peter Gabriel: So (iTunes)
$7.99
19 hrs ago
J. Cole: KOD (iTunes)
$6.99
1 day ago
J. Cole: KOD (iTunes)
$6.99
1 day ago
Chicago: The Very Best of Chicago: Only the Beginning (iTunes)
$6.99
 
Bob Dylan: Blonde On Blonde (iTunes)
$7.99
19 hrs ago
Thomas Newman: In the Bedroom (iTunes)
$9.99
 
Phil Collins: Love Songs (iTunes)
$6.99
 
Red Hot Chili Peppers: Greatest Hits (iTunes)
$6.99
 
Black Sabbath: Greatest Hits 1970-1978 (iTunes)
$6.99
 
Red Hot Chili Peppers: Greatest Hits (iTunes)
$6.99
 
What's your next favorite movie?
Join our movie community to find out


Image from: Life of Pi (2012)

Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Audio > Music / Audiophiles > Vinyl and Old School Music

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-04-2008, 08:38 PM   #1
Headphone Czar Headphone Czar is offline
Active Member
 
May 2008
San Jose, CA
2
Default Was Vinyl tossed aside to soon?

From my ears, CD's aren't better or worse..Infact, I prefer the analog sound.. No DAC, no compression, etc.. I heard that Vinyl is making a comeback with many A/V purist. Shouldn't a newer technology be clearly better? Not just convient.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2008, 10:57 AM   #2
Rob71 Rob71 is offline
Blu-ray Knight
 
Rob71's Avatar
 
Aug 2007
Florida
13
295
5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Headphone Czar View Post
From my ears, CD's aren't better or worse..Infact, I prefer the analog sound.. No DAC, no compression, etc.. I heard that Vinyl is making a comeback with many A/V purist. Shouldn't a newer technology be clearly better? Not just convient.

I'm hoping that's what Blu-ray Audio is going to be. Haven't heard anything yet, but I'm thinking of picking up the NIN album and try it out. I wish they would release Dark side of the moon or Led Zeppelin ZOSO, so I could give it a proper test.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2008, 04:27 PM   #3
WriteSimply WriteSimply is offline
Blu-ray Ninja
 
Sep 2006
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Send a message via Yahoo to WriteSimply Send a message via Skype™ to WriteSimply
Default

To my ears, the very best vinyl setup, which is very expensive, sounds similar to a mid-price SACD surround setup. I'd buy every new album in SACD if they'd make 'em.

Here's an excerpt of an article about the past and future of audio: 2L Founder Declares Blu-ray the Future of High Quality Music Reproduction

Quote:
BPBS: On your Blu-ray audio disc release, DIVERTIMENTI with TrondheimSolistene, you utilize not only uncompressed PCM at 192kHz/24-bit in stereo and 5.1, but also both of the new lossless audio codecs, Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA, at 192kHz/24-bit - what was your reasoning behind this? Was it done solely to give audiophiles a chance to compare the different high resolution options, or do you and the rest of the team at 2L believe there is an audible difference between the formats? I'm also wondering if you have a preference between releasing on SACD versus releasing on Blu-ray Disc?

ML: Blu-ray is the first domestic format in history that unites theatre movies and music sound in equally high quality. The advantage of Blu-ray is the high resolution for audio, and the convenience for the audience as now one player will handle music, films, their DVD-collection and their old library of traditional CD. I personally prefer extremely high resolution PCM over the DSD. All resolutions found in the DIVERTIMENTI package are sample rate converted from the same DXD source files. Comparing them in our studio we find only subtle differences from DXD (24BIT/352.8kHz) down to 192kHz and 96kHz. The obvious degeneration is from 96kHz down to 48kHz. I find DSD, as found on the SACD, somewhat different in the colour from DXD and 192kHz PCM; in some mysterious way DSD is softer and more beautiful but slightly less detailed.

In DXD I find the shimmering brilliance from the original analogue source as directly from the microphones. In my opinion PCM encoded to DTS Master Audio and DD True HD is not noticeably degenerated from the original 192kHz. The most obvious reduction is of course the 48kHz core extracted from the DTS. And the mandatory Dolby Digital 48kHz just sounds terrible, compared to anything. 


Our DIVERTIMENTI is 100% according to the official Blu-ray specifications. Unfortunately all players are not. Due to the 192kHz rate in multichanel, not all players have the processing power required for decoding, and therefore some still "cut corners." PlayStation3 is one of the machines equipped with sufficient power to handle all formats. I believe all future models of Blu-ray players will prove compatible with the standards. Most manufacturers are launching next generation players in three to five months from now. They are not talking loud about it as they want to sell out their stock of old models. Watch out for surprise attacks in the market in August/September; double the power – half the price! New models will be matched by a new range of receivers, with HDMI v1.3 making decoding a lot more easy and compatible than today.
This BD-Audio release is available now that INCLUDES a hybrid SACD on a second disc!


fuad
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2008, 10:10 PM   #4
quexos quexos is offline
Banned
 
quexos's Avatar
 
May 2007
Brussels, Belgium
Default

in my opinion vinyl could have been tossed much earlier. But then again I like future technologies and I'm usually looking forward to tech breakthroughs
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2008, 09:22 PM   #5
MacHaggis MacHaggis is offline
Active Member
 
MacHaggis's Avatar
 
Aug 2007
Burbank, CA
102
Send a message via ICQ to MacHaggis Send a message via Yahoo to MacHaggis Send a message via Skype™ to MacHaggis
Default

Vinyl is not dead. It is a niche format presently, used by audiophiles.

The problem with vinyl is that it is a high-maintenance format, including a rather vulnerable media.

When the CD standard came into the picture, it addressed many of those issues, except for the way it handles the sound envelope, specifically, the high and low frequency reproduction.

If you are someone who thinks that MP3s are great, then look no further...

But, if you are someone who takes sound reproduction seriously, there are other digital formats that surpass CD-quality.

LPs will always play a role, due to the warmth of the analog sound.

Other formats, such as SACD and DVD-Audio, while digital in storage, do go a long way in improving the sound quality.

- Bogdan
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2008, 07:38 AM   #6
Blew Away Blew Away is offline
Junior Member
 
Blew Away's Avatar
 
Dec 2008
1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Headphone Czar View Post
From my ears, CD's aren't better or worse..Infact, I prefer the analog sound.. No DAC, no compression, etc.. I heard that Vinyl is making a comeback with many A/V purist. Shouldn't a newer technology be clearly better? Not just convient.
Vinyl is not compressed, but it is also not pure either. Its not exactly compressed, but it is modified in a near linear curve. There is something called RIAA EQ. To keep a long story short, when a vinyl is pressed, the bass is depressed and the highs are highly opposite. Your preamp or phono input does the job of reversing this and getting all frequencies back to their original state. Some do a better job than others.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2009, 01:55 AM   #7
Johnny Vinyl Johnny Vinyl is offline
Moderator
 
Johnny Vinyl's Avatar
 
Jul 2007
At the crossroad of Analogue Dr & 2CH Ave
19
205
7
3
8
Default

No digital format can capture the warmth of a vinyl LP (in VG, VG+, NM or MINT condition) on a decent turntable matched to a decent amp and brought forth by decent speakers.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2009, 06:14 PM   #8
dobyblue dobyblue is offline
Super Moderator
 
dobyblue's Avatar
 
Jul 2006
Ontario, Canada
46
52
623
13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacHaggis View Post
Vinyl is not dead. It is a niche format presently, used by audiophiles.
It's also still WIDELY used in the DJ scene.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2009, 08:37 PM   #9
Big Daddy Big Daddy is offline
Blu-ray Champion
 
Big Daddy's Avatar
 
Jan 2008
Southern California
79
122
1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobyblue View Post
It's also still WIDELY used in the DJ scene.
True. Panasonic (formerly Matsushita) has been making the Technic Turntable for over 30 years. They never stopped. It is a quality player, built like a tank, and the #1 choice of clubs & DJs.

Last edited by Big Daddy; 01-25-2009 at 07:36 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2009, 09:03 PM   #10
dobyblue dobyblue is offline
Super Moderator
 
dobyblue's Avatar
 
Jul 2006
Ontario, Canada
46
52
623
13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy View Post
True. Panasonic (formerly Matsushita) has been making the Technic Turntable for over 30 years. They never stopped. It is a quality player, build like a tank, and the #1 choice of clubs & DJs.
Yep, and if you replace the tonearm and cartridge it's not a bad entry-level audiophile turntable either.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2009, 09:18 PM   #11
Big Daddy Big Daddy is offline
Blu-ray Champion
 
Big Daddy's Avatar
 
Jan 2008
Southern California
79
122
1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobyblue View Post
Yep, and if you replace the tonearm and cartridge it's not a bad entry-level audiophile turntable either.
This UK reviewer claims that it is already an exceptional player for home audio. Read the whole article: http://www.mds975.co.uk/Content/vinyl01.html

Quote:
In the 1970’s Technics parent company, Matsushita, invested the equivalent of millions of Dollars, in today's terms, into research and development to produce the best possible no-compromise turntable for Hi-Fi enthusiasts utilising one of the world's finest turntable drive system. The result, today, is the Technics SL-1200 MkII and its other incarnations. (The 1210 is the black version but otherwise identical to the 1200, and you will find other versions up to MK 5, but all offer essentially the same construction as far as the highest quality Hi-Fi reproduction is concerned.)

If an independent turntable manufacturer could afford the massive R&D budget that was lavished on the development of the SL-1200 (which none probably now could), then, with much much smaller sales volumes in today’s smaller overall market, the unit cost of the resulting product could well be in excess of 1000 or more. The fact that YOU can buy a brand new miracle of modern engineering in the form of the SL-1200MK2, for less than 400* is in itself a rather significant miracle.

The reason that the cost of the SL1200 MkII is now so reasonable is that the enormous research and development costs have been written down over very many years of production.

Hijacked?

It is unfortunate today that the SL-1200 has come to be regarded as purely a DJ’s turntable for use in nightclubs and by 'scratching' enthusiasts. While the SL-1200 MK2 certainly has been adopted by serious DJ's as the de-facto standard turntable, it should not be dismissed by home audio and hi-fi enthusiasts as merely a DJ machine when, in fact, Matsushita embarked on a no-compromise mission to develop the finest sounding Hi-Fi turntable possible – the result being the SL-1200 series.

Certainly the SL-1200 is built like a tank, it is rock solid and extremely reliable and these strengths have earned the SL-1200 a well deserved reputation as king of all DJ turntables. However the 1200 is more than this, it is also a very fine sounding piece of audio equipment, and certainly far better than anything else in or well in excess of its price bracket. It is a high precision instrument that is capable of the very finest hi-fi reproduction when combined with a suitable high quality phono cartridge and phono pre-amplifier. The vast sums that were initially lavished by Matsushita on the SL project having been written down during its long production run which makes the SL-1200 series the most competitively priced and best engineered Hi Fi turntables available to serious music enthusiasts.
There are a few places that modify the Technic turntable and make it sound even better.

Last edited by Big Daddy; 01-24-2009 at 10:14 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2009, 08:30 PM   #12
dobyblue dobyblue is offline
Super Moderator
 
dobyblue's Avatar
 
Jul 2006
Ontario, Canada
46
52
623
13
Default

I know that, but you'll note he recommends upgrading the cartridge for serious audio playback.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2009, 10:59 PM   #13
gknight gknight is offline
Junior Member
 
gknight's Avatar
 
Feb 2009
Default

i think serato sorta brought the vinyl back. companies are making cartridges again, and ive dusted off the milkcrates since its not a chore to switch over between media now.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2009, 11:06 PM   #14
Johnny Vinyl Johnny Vinyl is offline
Moderator
 
Johnny Vinyl's Avatar
 
Jul 2007
At the crossroad of Analogue Dr & 2CH Ave
19
205
7
3
8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gknight View Post
i think serato sorta brought the vinyl back. companies are making cartridges again, and ive dusted off the milkcrates since its not a chore to switch over between media now.
Enlighten me please..."Serato"?

John
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2009, 11:20 PM   #15
Sir Terrence Sir Terrence is offline
Sound Insider/M.P.S.E.
 
Sir Terrence's Avatar
 
Dec 2006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John72953 View Post
No digital format can capture the warmth of a vinyl LP (in VG, VG+, NM or MINT condition) on a decent turntable matched to a decent amp and brought forth by decent speakers.
Are we talking warmth or distortion? Its pretty easy to mix them up. Anytime one stationary object(the needle) touches a moving object with a path(vinyl with grooves) distortion goes up. The vinyl may have been cut perfectly, but rarely are tone arms set up perfectly.

After you have played that LP a few more times, the distortion goes up even more, not to mention the rice crispy effect of pops and crackles.

24/192khz audio sourced from DXD can capture anything an LP can, and that includes warmth if that is coming from the source. Its not artificial though, and that is not always the case from LP.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2009, 11:44 PM   #16
Johnny Vinyl Johnny Vinyl is offline
Moderator
 
Johnny Vinyl's Avatar
 
Jul 2007
At the crossroad of Analogue Dr & 2CH Ave
19
205
7
3
8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy View Post
This UK reviewer claims that it is already an exceptional player for home audio. Read the whole article: http://www.mds975.co.uk/Content/vinyl01.html



There are a few places that modify the Technic turntable and make it sound even better.
I'm sorry BD, but I have to disagree with you on this one. If the reviewer claims that Direct Drive provides more speed stability over belt-drive, don't you think that drive format would be prevelant then? Surely the big names in TT manufacturing wouldn't dismiss this reviewer's fact?

In my opinion the Technics is built for a specific market and it isn't that of the dedicated and knowledgeble audiophile. The key to good turntable design is isolation of the motor drive...the Direct drive system is the complete antithesis of that.

If you have a few LP's hanging about and you want to occasionally play them, sure go ahead and buy a Technics. For the more serious folk who want to partake in finding a sound that is truer and warmer.....stay away. I'd buy a Pro-ject Debut III over ANY direct-drive system any day.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2009, 12:06 AM   #17
Johnny Vinyl Johnny Vinyl is offline
Moderator
 
Johnny Vinyl's Avatar
 
Jul 2007
At the crossroad of Analogue Dr & 2CH Ave
19
205
7
3
8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence View Post
Are we talking warmth or distortion? Its pretty easy to mix them up. Anytime one stationary object(the needle) touches a moving object with a path(vinyl with grooves) distortion goes up. The vinyl may have been cut perfectly, but rarely are tone arms set up perfectly.

After you have played that LP a few more times, the distortion goes up even more, not to mention the rice crispy effect of pops and crackles.

24/192khz audio sourced from DXD can capture anything an LP can, and that includes warmth if that is coming from the source. Its not artificial though, and that is not always the case from LP.
With all due respect..warmth or distortion? Easy to mix those up? Please, do not take me for a neophite.

I can very effectively tell the difference between the two and don't quite frankly understand you even making that comparison.

As far as the following statement is concerned: 24/192khz audio sourced from DXD can capture anything an LP can, and that includes warmth if that is coming from the source. Im sorry, but I completely disagree.

Digital is a STOP and GO procedure measured in 1's and 0's as you know. (I am expressing this in layman's terms because I'm not a technophile.)

An analog signal is a continual signal...digital is NOT. The two are completely different and until digital solves the problem of being able to reproduce a continual signal it cannot possibly exhibit the warmth that it is inherant to an analog signal.

John
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2009, 12:49 AM   #18
naturephoto1 naturephoto1 is offline
Blu-ray Ninja
 
naturephoto1's Avatar
 
Oct 2008
Breinigsville, PA
260
21
263
Default

I like many others still wonder if digital captures all of the overtones that are on vinyl/analog recordings. That has been a question and an issue for an extremely long time.

By the way the Teres Certus 450 that I hope arrives shortly is in-fact a a direct drive turntable, one of the few High End turntables that is. It relies on a magnetic damped multi-phase synchronous drive system to directly drive a massive (65 pound), heavily damped brass and hardwood platter. The Certus Drive system is patent pending. The Certus Turntables are considered to be some of the finest sounding turntables in the world. Teres Audio probably makes fewer than about 5 Cetus Turntables a year.

http://www.teresaudio.com/certus/

Rich

Last edited by naturephoto1; 02-17-2009 at 01:14 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2009, 05:15 AM   #19
Bravoxena Bravoxena is offline
Member
 
Oct 2008
8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John72953 View Post
With all due respect..warmth or distortion? Easy to mix those up? Please, do not take me for a neophite.

I can very effectively tell the difference between the two and don't quite frankly understand you even making that comparison.

As far as the following statement is concerned: 24/192khz audio sourced from DXD can capture anything an LP can, and that includes warmth if that is coming from the source. Im sorry, but I completely disagree.

Digital is a STOP and GO procedure measured in 1's and 0's as you know. (I am expressing this in layman's terms because I'm not a technophile.)

An analog signal is a continual signal...digital is NOT. The two are completely different and until digital solves the problem of being able to reproduce a continual signal it cannot possibly exhibit the warmth that it is inherant to an analog signal.

John
I completely understand your argument but with high audio resolutions like 192khz, there is virtually no difference between analog and digital. There are so many samples per second that it's virtually continuous. Think of a hi-res digital photo, does it look pixelated on the screen?... Generally not, it looks like a nice continuous photo. =)
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2009, 11:21 AM   #20
naturephoto1 naturephoto1 is offline
Blu-ray Ninja
 
naturephoto1's Avatar
 
Oct 2008
Breinigsville, PA
260
21
263
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bravoxena View Post
I completely understand your argument but with high audio resolutions like 192khz, there is virtually no difference between analog and digital. There are so many samples per second that it's virtually continuous. Think of a hi-res digital photo, does it look pixelated on the screen?... Generally not, it looks like a nice continuous photo. =)
Whether true or not, the remasters in digital media (regardless of resolution rate and for that matter much of new heavy (180 and 200 gram) vinyl releases) of in many cases of older analog (frequently from tape) recordings frequently do not sound as good or as well mixed as the original LP.

Rich
  Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Audio > Music / Audiophiles > Vinyl and Old School Music

Similar Threads
thread Forum Thread Starter Replies Last Post
What's Your Most Valuable $$$$ Vinyl? Vinyl and Old School Music Offender_Mullet 150 12-06-2017 09:48 PM
Vinyl Collectors....Help Please!!! General Chat Blu-Benny 3 06-01-2009 02:48 PM
Can anyone that still uses Vinyl help me? Vinyl and Old School Music steve_99101 24 05-05-2009 07:43 PM
anyone still use vinyl records? General Chat steve_99101 5 05-04-2009 05:57 PM
Cloverfield Blu-ray extras tossed?! Blu-ray Movies - North America blu-mood 1 02-29-2008 03:27 PM


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:05 AM.