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Old 01-12-2010, 07:29 PM   #21
primitiveskin primitiveskin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rik1138 View Post
Turns out, the material on the read-side of the disc that prevents it from being scratched easily is very slightly 'viscous' (I think that's the word, it's not a hardened material).
I usually associate "viscous" with liquids, so I don't really consider the surface of my BDs to be a semi-solid that is imperceptibly in a constant state of flux. The word that you're looking for is probably pliable or malleable, although, the material as described is most certainly deformable.
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Old 01-12-2010, 07:45 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by primitiveskin View Post
I usually associate "viscous" with liquids, so I don't really consider the surface of my BDs to be a semi-solid that is imperceptibly in a constant state of flux. The word that you're looking for is probably pliable or malleable, although, the material as described is most certainly deformable.
I'm going to agree with the OP's use of the word "viscous". There are 4 states of matter, and even glass is considered to be a liquid, not a solid. Old stained glass windows have thicker glass at the bottom than the top because they're flowing over time. The coating on the Blu-ray is behaving the same way. I associate "pliable" and "malleable" with metals that don't have elastic properties, but I'm not a materials engineer and we're getting off topic anyway...

My environment comment was directed towards the suggestion of high humidity causing the marks. I agree that temperature would be a factor, however small within a controlled domestic environment. Pressure seems to be by far the largest factor in causing this problem (unless you store your collection outdoors or in the freezer anyway).

I think there's going to be a quarter (or something) left on a disc in the hot sun tomorrow, and you'll find one in the freezer next to the ice cream.
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Old 01-12-2010, 08:58 PM   #23
Rik1138 Rik1138 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFattBill View Post
The OP should grab a stack that have no marks on them and sleeve them like he would normally, only this time put them in a freezer and see if the marks show up, my money would be on no. If they do I would also bet they will be substantially less invasive.

Bill
Well, sure, extreme heat or cold would make a difference just like it would with any material... Put a CD in an oven with a penny on it, and it will eventually work it's way through the disc completely. But, in a normal, low humidity room-temperature environment, a stack of 10-50 Blu-rays in sleeves will damage at least 7-12 of them. The top 2 or maybe 3 in each stack seemed okay (or very lightly marked). I think just one disc by itself would probably be okay (or take a long time to damage). Weight/pressure is definitely the main factor over anything else. But just the pressure of a piece of paper curled against the disc was enough over a 2-month period to leave marks on the disc (the disc was in a paper sleeve and tucked into the inside cover of a blu-ray case. The sleeve was a little too big, so it crinkled a little, touching the surface of the disc with a little bit of pressure...)
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:45 PM   #24
DJ Manyak DJ Manyak is offline
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damn that sucks so how many movies did you lose ?
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:37 PM   #25
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Moral of the Story. Keep the disc in the containers they come in and do not stack them.
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:24 AM   #26
raven1138 raven1138 is offline
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we should sticky this, with a disclaimer like "try at your own risk"
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:25 AM   #27
DNinja DNinja is offline
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I've seen some of these kinds of marks on discs I've received from Netflix.
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Old 01-15-2010, 02:17 AM   #28
Rojas Rojas is offline
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You can Buff them out with a soft clean dry cloth from center to outer rim.
works great on BD rental's that use a paper envelope.

Last edited by Rojas; 01-15-2010 at 09:43 PM.
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Old 01-18-2010, 03:29 AM   #29
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I've been storing mine in binders for the last 2 years or more since they've been out? I've never had a bad one or one go bad?? I'm sure there are some that haven't been moved in 2 years? I played one the other day...worked fine? I store them this way because they are easier to transport back and forth to my ex wife's for the kids?
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Old 01-18-2010, 03:44 AM   #30
Alpha Sixx Alpha Sixx is offline
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On my last deployment to Iraq I took around 70 blurays and 200 regular dvd's. When we flew I put all the disc's in a DVD book that held them all. I put them in the bag that went in the belly of the plane with hundreds of other heavy bags on top of it. When my PS3 and HDTV finally arrived none of the Blurays would play. I even tried them on a friend of mines PS3. I tried every thing disc cleaners, I tried buffing the discs out nothing worked. On the surface of all the disc's they had the pattern of the soft part of the dvd case. But I just couldn't bring myself to throw them all away so they sat for over a month and one day I decided to try one again and it worked every single disc worked and the pattern had vanished from all of the disc's. And to this day all of the disc's still work just fine.

Last edited by Alpha Sixx; 01-18-2010 at 03:46 AM.
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Old 01-18-2010, 04:00 AM   #31
jebhdb jebhdb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvm View Post
Moral of the Story. Keep the disc in the containers they come in and do not stack them.
I'm assuming its alright to stack your blu rays horizontally if they are stored in their blu ray cases right? The reason I ask is that when I fill up a shelf with blu rays that are stored vertically I will use the extra space above them and stack some blu rays on top of each other horizontally. Does anyone see any potential problems with this?
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Old 01-18-2010, 04:11 AM   #32
MovingPictureObsess MovingPictureObsess is offline
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I just started using binders like 3 months ago for accessability after years of keeping discs in cases. Never had any problems untill last week were my dog peed on my sd dvd open binders. My bluray leather binders are kept zipped hbowever so no pee can get in them. Also, my blus will be in many binders not just one big one to help prevent weight and damage. I dont see any marks on my discs.
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Old 01-19-2010, 07:23 PM   #33
Rik1138 Rik1138 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnfish View Post
I've been storing mine in binders for the last 2 years or more since they've been out? I've never had a bad one or one go bad??
I think it has a lot do with how you stack them. If you store the binders vertically like books, it may not be too bad. Having a nice, soft backing helps too (the paper sleeves aren't really that 'soft').

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha Sixx View Post
On the surface of all the disc's they had the pattern of the soft part of the dvd case. But I just couldn't bring myself to throw them all away so they sat for over a month and one day I decided to try one again and it worked every single disc worked and the pattern had vanished from all of the disc's. And to this day all of the disc's still work just fine.
Well, this is good to hear. It confirms two things:
1- even a soft-back binder can cause this 'damage' to the discs
2- apparently they will 'fix' themselves given enough time (you can speed this process up with a hair dryer as mentioned in the original post)

Looking at my discs in the sleeves (that are all now stored vertically), the impressions are starting to become less obvious, but they are still there. I suspect with enough time they will go away completely (or I attack them with the hair dryer! ).

So, in the end, it appears this damage is not permanent. But it still a problem if you want to just pull out a disc and watch it right away. The best advice seems to be: Don't stack them horizontally (if you have them in sleeves/binders/etc), especially with a lot of weight on them...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jebhdb View Post
I'm assuming its alright to stack your blu rays horizontally if they are stored in their blu ray cases right?
Yeah, in the original cases will be fine, as long as there isn't enough weight to actually crush the cases (and if you have 'eco cases', put those on the top of the stack, it won't take much to crush those and press the cut out design into the disc...). In general, the cases are designed to prevent the surface of the disc from being touched.

I do the same thing with mine, putting 2 or 3 horizontally on top of the verticals, never had a problem there...

Rik
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Old 01-19-2010, 08:30 PM   #34
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The cover layer material is the culprit to the "impression" being left in it on the disc. This is not permanent as mentioned above and placing the disc back in a proper case will allow the cover layer to expand back to its normal state. The heating effect will speed this process up but too much heat and you can possible warp the disc to the point that it can damage your player ( Not recommended).

There have always been environmental specs for discs and the most common is that a disc be placed in an environmental chamber for 96hrs at 80C and 85% humidity. Once it is removed from the chamber the disc is then tested for all applicable tests ( HF, Jitter, Tilt,etc) if it passes then the process and the materials used are deemed safe for harsh environments such as Taiwan. Now if all manufacturers follow this.....I don't know but whom I work for does for all formats...DVD & BD

downward
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:01 AM   #35
cowls192 cowls192 is offline
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It's been a while, but did anybody find any solution yet?

I was searching for storage box for BR discs, (no binder, jewel case, paper case, or rack. Just like a shipping box but extra sturdy like a desk drawer) and i still find this thread disturbing.

Right now, i just keep my discs in one of those 25-pk or 50-pk plastic case, (where you just stack the discs on top of another) and i was wondering if this would damage my discs.

And what about those "jewel" cases? I'm talking about those slim plastic cases that can barely hold one disc. (I've seen some folks trying to squeeze TWO discs in a case. Retail music cd case can actually hold two discs, in case you didn't notice.)

I mean, i read a lot of posts about damages coming from paper cases, but those "original" BR cases are pretty much plastic after all.

And what if the original BR case is broken? I have a case that has the center part broken, (the part you're supposed to push in order to take the disc out) and i am reluctant right now to buy 10-pk or 20-pk retail sized BR cases online because of this thread.

Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:29 AM   #36
cowls192 cowls192 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowls192 View Post
Right now, i just keep my discs in one of those 25-pk or 50-pk plastic case, (where you just stack the discs on top of another)
Just to let you know, i've been keeping discs by stacking on top of each other, because that's how those blank discs were sold. I mean, logically, if those discs were sold in cases that way, probably after sitting on the store shelf for about half a year, and have no problem burning, maybe it's okay to store them in those 50-pk cases.
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:33 AM   #37
Monterey Jack Monterey Jack is offline
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This is why I will never, EVER, store Blus, DVDs or CDs in anything other than the original packaging.
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:54 AM   #38
Rik1138 Rik1138 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowls192 View Post
Just to let you know, i've been keeping discs by stacking on top of each other, because that's how those blank discs were sold. I mean, logically, if those discs were sold in cases that way, probably after sitting on the store shelf for about half a year, and have no problem burning, maybe it's okay to store them in those 50-pk cases.
Actually, blank discs work in spindles because they are all made at the same time, by the same manufacturer when placed on those spindles. It's also done in a clean environment to guarantee there's no dust/dirt/etc in between them. If you look between the discs themselves you will see that they are _NOT_ touching. They only touch at the point of a little ring near the hub. If you combine discs from different replication facilities, the spacing of the ring could be off, and the discs can get scratched. If you try to stuff more discs in the case than it's designed to hold (like putting 60 in a 50-spindle), you can actually force the discs to touch. I've seen the text printed on a disc impressed into the bottom of the disc above it that way...

Spindles are a bad idea if you really care about your discs. But they work okay if you can accept that one might get scratched one day (it's worse for CDs than anything, but not recommended for any discs...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cowls192 View Post
It's been a while, but did anybody find any solution yet?

I was searching for storage box for BR discs, (no binder, jewel case, paper case, or rack. Just like a shipping box but extra sturdy like a desk drawer) and i still find this thread disturbing.
It turns out that these impressions will leave the disc if it's just left out not touching anything for a day or two. Apparently the surface is sort of viscous, but wants to return to it's original shape.

The key is to not have _any_ pressure on the surface of the disc. If you want to use those really skinny jewel cases, one disc per case, that would work fine since they are designed just for that purpose.

I've found that if I keep using the Tyvek sleeves, and store them vertically in a drawer (made for that purpose), and never put in so many discs that they are 'packed' in there, I don't have problems with them. If you stack them all horizontally in a stack on your desk, the ones on the bottom will start to get these impressions, and they do cause playback problems (but every disc I've found with these impressions was fixable by either leaving it out for a few days, and gently heating it with a hair dryer to speed up the process (which can warp the disc, so you really shouldn't try that)).

I wouldn't use those zippered disc binders for Blu-rays either, when they are full there's enough pressure against the disc to impress the patter of the material into it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monterey Jack View Post
This is why I will never, EVER, store Blus, DVDs or CDs in anything other than the original packaging.
Unless the original packaging is a cardboard or paper sleeve, this is a very good idea. If you have a blu-ray that was a bonus disc or something just stuffed in a cardboard sleeve, it might be better to put them in jewel cases or something. Same goes for box sets where the disc isn't actually snapped on a disc holder (like the Alien set for example). It would be better for the discs to store them another way, but at least the boxes are made so there's not a lot of pressure on the discs... Still, it's a stupid design for Blu-ray.

Last edited by Rik1138; 12-16-2012 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:27 PM   #39
Cevolution Cevolution is offline
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Maybe the Bond 50 set isn't as harmless to the discs as many think if this kind of issue can happen over a period of a couple of years by having them stored in such a way
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Old 12-20-2012, 01:51 AM   #40
cowls192 cowls192 is offline
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Originally Posted by cowls192 View Post
I was searching for storage box for BR discs, (no binder, jewel case, paper case, or rack. Just like a shipping box but extra sturdy like a desk drawer)
Silly me, for not making myself clear....

What i meant was that i was looking for a storage box for "BR cases", and i really meant "retail-size BR cases". For example, i found this thing called "Really Useful" boxes at Staples (you can also Amazon that), especially 3.0 liter box, where you can store 10 DVD cases quite neatly. And right when i was about to grab it to buy it, i realized that most retail BR cases are "shorter" than most retail DVD cases. I mean, it's pretty easy to find DVD storage boxes, but not Blu-ray storage boxes. It's been 4-5 years since it officially succeeded the DVD, yet no such accessories exist. Come on, not even a shipping box for them????
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