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Old 06-25-2021, 08:23 AM   #1
HDTV1080P HDTV1080P is offline
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Default Windows 11 was just announced (its suppose to be a new and improved OS)

6 years ago Windows 10 was released on July 29th 2015. Therefore Widows 10 is a 6 year old operating system. When Microsoft released Windows 10 they announced that Windows 10 would be the last Windows operating system (it use to be that around every 3 years Microsoft came out with a new and improved operating system). Microsoft changed their mind and Windows 10 is not the last major operating system.

In some ways I am glad that Microsoft after 6 years is coming out with a new and improved operating system with better security features. As long as there is no major features removed in Windows 11 that I currently use in Windows 10 Professional 64 bit, then I am all for a true upgrade.

Microsoft has just announced that Windows 11 well be officially released in the fall of 2021

Windows 10 was supposed to be the last version of the ...

Windows 10: the Last Version of Windows? | PCMag

Last edited by HDTV1080P; 07-03-2021 at 04:33 AM. Reason: corrected release date info with correct information, since one website used as a source was wrong about the date.
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Old 06-25-2021, 08:30 AM   #2
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I would like to see Microsoft come out with a free or paid app that allows one to play 4K Blu-ray discs, Blu-ray 3D discs, standard Blu-ray discs, DVD discs, and audio CD’s. While I am dreaming why not a app that also plays DSD SACD’s and DVD-audio discs.

Also I would love to see some new software based security system that replaces Intel’s SGX technology so that people with AMD and Intel based computers can play native 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray discs. If the BDA was smart they should have worked with Microsoft so that SGX technology is no longer needed and instead a Microsoft 4K Blu-ray security system for Windows 11 would be better.
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Old 06-25-2021, 10:11 AM   #3
bhampton bhampton is online now
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Seems my newest PC is too old to use it. i7 3Ghz must be old now. Times flies.

Last edited by bhampton; 06-25-2021 at 04:10 PM.
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Old 06-25-2021, 07:50 PM   #4
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Quote:
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Seems my newest PC is too old to use it. i7 3Ghz must be old now. Times flies.
Microsoft also is insisting that you have a TPM module installed to your system for Win11, but 99.99% of all DIY builds don't have one. The relevant motherboards do all have headers for them, but the modules don't actually come in the box and are an accessory.
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Old 06-25-2021, 08:14 PM   #5
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What's unclear to me is whether Win11 requires UEFI or if that's just a recommendation (like TPM 2.0 vs TPM 1.2). Particularly for running in a VM, BIOS has just been easier, at least up to now.

EDIT: Answered elsewhere, UEFI is required because Secure Boot is a hard requirement.

Last edited by CatBus; 06-25-2021 at 09:43 PM.
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Old 06-26-2021, 10:07 AM   #6
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Microsoft also is insisting that you have a TPM module installed to your system for Win11, but 99.99% of all DIY builds don't have one. The relevant motherboards do all have headers for them, but the modules don't actually come in the box and are an accessory.
While I like additional security features of the coming Windows 11. I also have been a Windows fan since the mid 1995, since I use Windows every day. Unless Microsoft makes some changes to Windows 11 before the launch date, its easy to predict that Windows 11 well be a big disaster with a small number of Windows owners upgrading. The reason I say that is because to run Windows 11 everyone must own a new desktop computer or new Notebook computer that supports secure boot and TPM version 2.0 in the BIOS. While its true that some or many PC’s in the last 5 to 7 years from AMD and Intel have the TPM 2.0 feature built into the motherboard, there are over 500 million computers that do not have the minimum security requirements to upgrade to Windows 11.

Almost everyone’s PC in the last 15 years meets the minimum hardware requirements of at least 1.0 Ghz dual-core 64-bit processor and a minimum of 4GB of RAM. The problem is several millions of PC’s fail on the minimum security requirements like secure boot and TPM 2.0.

I was looking at my family members PC’s and they all fail the minimum-security requirements to run Windows 11. A 14 year old Notebook computer has 8GB of ram, a 13 year old X38 computer has 16GB of ram, a 11 year old X58 computer has 24GB of ram, and a 6 year old X99 computer has 128GB of DDR4 memory. But the problem is the security requirements that are needed to install Windows 11. Looking at my newest computer build which is the 6 year old ASROCK X99 motherboard that supports secure boot, and back in the year 2015 I installed the latest TPM 1.2 module. However, in order to run Windows 11 I have to buy a new ASROCK TPM 2.0 module with 17 pins that was released in March of 2017. That TPM 2.0 module around 48 to 72 hours ago cost around $21, however when people heard that Windows 11 was coming out, there was a run on TPM modules and TPM 2.0 modules cost around $100-$150+ on EBAY if one can even find one now. Another issue is that some TPM 2.0 modules might be out of production since many new CPU’s have TPM 2.0 built in. I understand that many people with a PC that is only 5 to 7 years old already has a TPM 2.0 feature built into the AMD and Intel CPU. However, to make secure boot and a TPM 2.0 module mandatory during a worldwide semiconductor shortage is going to result in some consumers deciding not to upgrade to Windows 11.

While Windows 11 is a new and improved operating system that well be released soon, unless Microsoft does away with the requirements to have the secure boot feature and the TPM 2.0 feature on the motherboard, then around 500 million Windows 10 customers well choose not to upgrade to Windows 11, because they do not want to be forced into buying a new PC that meets the minimum security requirements. 20 years ago the average American family owned one or two PC’s. In the year 2021 the average American family owns at least one PC per each person living in the house. Microsoft needs to make the secure boot feature and TPM 2.0 feature an optional feature if they want the Windows 11 operating system to one day replace Windows 10. In theory Windows 10 well be supported with updates for at least another 3 years. Microsoft supported Windows 7 for 10 years and might offer a total of 10 years support for Windows 10. But after Windows 10 is supported consumers well either upgrade to a new PC with Windows 11, or consumers well instead install the free Linux operating system on to their existing PC’s.

Unless I can find a 17 pin ASROCK TPM 2.0 module in stock for my 2015 X99 motherboard, I will not be upgrading to Windows 11 either. It would have been nice to have my family members computers getting a Windows 11 upgrade but those PC’s are too old to meet the minimum security requirements for Windows 11. One cannot buy a TPM 2.0 module for $20 and stick it on any motherboard. The Motherboard needs a TPM header jack and BIOS support for secure boot and TPM 2.0. That does not exits on all or most PC’s older then 6 or 7 years old.

https://www.pcmag.com/news/what-is-a...for-windows-11

Last edited by HDTV1080P; 06-26-2021 at 10:27 AM.
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Old 06-26-2021, 10:24 AM   #7
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In my original post I was all excited about Windows 11 with all the new improved features. Then I learned about the minimum security requirements and how some families with PC’s 6 years and older are required to replace all their PC’s in their house in order to meet the minimum security requirements of Windows 11. Windows 10 is only 6 years old, so Microsoft in theory should support Windows 10 with free security updates for another 4.5 years. Perhaps in 3 years the semiconductor shortage might be over and people then well be forced to buy a new PC in order to run Windows 11 (Once Microsoft stops offering security updates for a operating system, like they did to Windows 7 in 2020, then its time for everyone to upgrade if they want their PC to remain secure).

Last edited by HDTV1080P; 07-03-2021 at 04:39 AM.
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Old 06-26-2021, 01:28 PM   #8
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According to the latest info, TPM 1 is not supported. TPM 2 is required and can be discrete or built-in hardware, UEFI software, or OS software. Many DIY enthusiast boards can be upgraded with hardware TPM or firmware update to enable TPM hardware already present, but otherwise disabled. Many boards already have TPM built in, but automatically disabled for support reasons, as security measures often cause problems for consumers who don't know what they are and how to use them. Future AMD, Intel, and ARM CPUs will incorporate an on-die "security processor", which will handle all TPM functions and the security features of current and older hardware, which includes playback of all digital rights management protected content and physical media.
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Old 06-26-2021, 04:14 PM   #9
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From what I have read you must have a Microsoft account and Internet connection to run Windows 11 Home. No longer a local account.
Will it be the same for Windows 11 Pro?

I have 3 Windows 10 Pro computers, all with local accounts. Always had local accounts with the Windows versions.

My Asus Prime Z370-A motherboards have a TPM connector. How do I know which version, 1 or 2?
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Old 06-26-2021, 05:44 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhampton View Post
Seems my newest PC is too old to use it. i7 3Ghz must be old now. Times flies.
I meet all the specs, but for the processor... Gen7 instead of Gen8. This is complete horseshit on Microsoft's part. Shit, I'm also running Win10 on a PC from 2006 and it works just fine and it is faster than when it had Win7 on it.
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Old 06-26-2021, 05:45 PM   #11
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Will it be the same for Windows 11 Pro?
No, you can have a local account.
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Old 06-26-2021, 11:09 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Mezzanine View Post
My Asus Prime Z370-A motherboards have a TPM connector. How do I know which version, 1 or 2?
You have 2 and it should be built into the CPU, through the Intel implementation of it. You need to check the UEFI settings to see if it's enabled.
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Old 06-27-2021, 01:11 AM   #13
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Because the TPM 2.0 requirement is security-related, I suspect Microsoft won't budge on it. Not sure how much wiggle room there is on processors, but if it's not security-related, they may budge there. But IIRC there were security fixes in Gen8 processors, so that may not be an arbitrary line. This approach makes sense to me even though I'm getting totally screwed by it (none of my household machines make the cut, and I have more than a few). They've set a security target for their future OS and if they compromise on these things they are not going to hit it.

Where I think they will more likely budge is Windows 10. They may extend support for that OS a couple more years (like XP), but you're not going to see them announcing anything like that until closer to 2025. Again, they want to hit their security target, and telling people there's no hurry to get onto the more secure platform will also hinder them in that goal.
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Old 06-27-2021, 01:25 AM   #14
HDTV1080P HDTV1080P is offline
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Originally Posted by LexInHD View Post
According to the latest info, TPM 1 is not supported. TPM 2 is required and can be discrete or built-in hardware, UEFI software, or OS software. Many DIY enthusiast boards can be upgraded with hardware TPM or firmware update to enable TPM hardware already present, but otherwise disabled. Many boards already have TPM built in, but automatically disabled for support reasons, as security measures often cause problems for consumers who don't know what they are and how to use them. Future AMD, Intel, and ARM CPUs will incorporate an on-die "security processor", which will handle all TPM functions and the security features of current and older hardware, which includes playback of all digital rights management protected content and physical media.
Most people with a motherboard or desktop PC no older then 7 years old should be able to run Windows 11 as long as they can purchase a TPM 2.0 chip for their desktop motherboard (requires a TPM header on the motherboard, newer PC's only a few years old have the TPM function built into the CPU itself). Some AMD and Intel CPU’s in the last 5 to 7 years have the TPM 2.0 function built into the CPU and can be turned on in the motherboard BIOS. The problem is many companies after around 5 years stop offering firmware updates to the BIOS, so getting TPM 2.0 added to a BIOS is not likely going to happen. There is literally going to be over 500 million people currently running Windows 10 that well not be able to upgrade to Windows 11 unless they sell their exiting computer or donate it to charity and go buy a new computer. Also some of the new Laptop computers on store shelfs in the year 2021 do not have the TPM 2.0 function built in. The TPM feature is easier to find on a desktop computer, its a lot harder to find on a Notebook style computer.

This well be a big disaster for Microsoft if on launch day they require the secure boot with TPM 2.0 function in order to install Windows 11. Also sometimes TPM chips go bad and end up leaving a solid state drive in a condition where Windows can not be booted and the files can no longer be accessed. If that TPM chip goes bad the encrypted solid state drive can no longer be read.

Last edited by HDTV1080P; 06-27-2021 at 01:37 AM.
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Old 06-27-2021, 01:46 AM   #15
HDTV1080P HDTV1080P is offline
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Windows 11 is suppose to be a free upgrade for existing Windows 10 users, however since most people well need to buy a new PC in order to use Windows 11, it well not be a free upgrade for many Windows 10 users.

I would rather see Microsoft charge around $200-$300+ for the Windows 11 operating system software DVD-ROM installation disc, and then offer secure boot and the TPM feature as optional features that are not required. Once one purchases Windows on DVD-ROM, one ends up getting free updates for the next 10 years. Buying Windows at a one time fee and getting free software updates for the next 10 years is a real bargain. Its better then paying a monthly subscription fee for Windows.

Last edited by HDTV1080P; 06-27-2021 at 02:28 AM.
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Old 06-27-2021, 11:59 AM   #16
LexInHD LexInHD is offline
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Here is the list of compatible CPUs

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...tel-processors

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...amd-processors

The Intel list is all over the place and it's somewhat unclear as to what the exact requirements are, because the Intel specs and names for their security tech are fairly jumbled up, giving you no clear definition of what meets the TPM requirements.
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Old 06-27-2021, 06:25 PM   #17
Misioon_Odisea Misioon_Odisea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LexInHD View Post
Here is the list of compatible CPUs

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...tel-processors

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...amd-processors

The Intel list is all over the place and it's somewhat unclear as to what the exact requirements are, because the Intel specs and names for their security tech are fairly jumbled up, giving you no clear definition of what meets the TPM requirements.
Yeah, but it's no use to me after all. I'm ticked off that my still perfectly-capable-for-my-needs Intel Core i7-6700K is explicitly unsupported, forcing me to miss out completely on this Windows until I build another PC (which I can't at the moment) despite my rig supporting Intel's PTT (TPM 2.0) with UEFI and Secure Boot on. I remember having once flawlessly installed Windows 10 on a Vista-era computer back when it was offered brand-new and free (I don't know if it still works there, I gave away that computer shortly afterwards), so this new cut-off feels like a major blunder to me.
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Old 06-27-2021, 06:50 PM   #18
LexInHD LexInHD is offline
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Originally Posted by Misioon_Odisea View Post
Yeah, but it's no use to me after all. I'm ticked off that my still perfectly-capable-for-my-needs Intel Core i7-6700K is explicitly unsupported, forcing me to miss out completely on this Windows until I build another PC (which I can't at the moment) despite my rig supporting Intel's PTT (TPM 2.0) with UEFI and Secure Boot on. I remember having once flawlessly installed Windows 10 on a Vista-era computer back when it was offered brand-new and free (I don't know if it still works there, I gave away that computer shortly afterwards), so this new cut-off feels like a major blunder to me.
I've been trying to unscramble the mess that is Intel's list and I think that the key is that the CPU must have Intel's PTT or Intel's Trusted Execution Technology. Yours doesn't have those, though you can possibly throw a TPM module on the board and have it meet the requirement.
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Old 06-27-2021, 08:29 PM   #19
Mezzanine Mezzanine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LexInHD View Post
You have 2 and it should be built into the CPU, through the Intel implementation of it. You need to check the UEFI settings to see if it's enabled.
I found the setting under PCH-FW Configuration and enabled it. And it is TPM 2.0. Also enabled Secure Boot in BIOS.
Then I ran Windows PC Health Check. My PC meets the system requirements and Windows 11 can run on this computer.

Windows 11.JPG
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Old 06-28-2021, 05:43 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by HDTV1080P View Post
[FONT=&quot]Almost 7 years ago Windows 10 was released on September 30th 2014. Therefore Widows 10 is a 7 year old operating system. When Microsoft released Windows 10 they announced that Windows 10 would be the last Windows operating system (it use to be that around every 3 years Microsoft came out with a new and improved operating system). Microsoft changed their mind and Windows 10 is not the last major operating system.
This. I'm glad I wasn't the only one who remembered. It's annoying how they offered 10 as the end all of windows systems, and they delivered what they delivered. And now they will expect everyone to jump to 11, then whatever other version they cough out in a few years. Business models change, but that's a pretty significant one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV1080P View Post
Windows 11 is suppose to be a free upgrade for existing Windows 10 users, however since most people well need to buy a new PC in order to use Windows 11, it well not be a free upgrade for many Windows 10 users.

I would rather see Microsoft charge around $200-$300+ for the Windows 11 operating system software DVD-ROM installation disc, and then offer secure boot and the TPM feature as optional features that are not required. Once one purchases Windows on DVD-ROM, one ends up getting free updates for the next 10 years. Buying Windows at a one time fee and getting free software updates for the next 10 years is a real bargain. Its better then paying a monthly subscription fee for Windows.
Personally, I hate this whole "subscription" model, especially for stuff like an OS and core software. Paying a sub for your antivirus makes sense, but this whole move towards every single program you run needing a sub is a bit much. I definitely agree on the fored system upgrade negating the entire "free upgrade" part. But that's been their sop going back a few versions now.

Last edited by Bobafett345; 06-28-2021 at 05:47 AM. Reason: formatting
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