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Old 06-28-2021, 05:49 AM   #21
rdodolak rdodolak is offline
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Microsoft needs to be careful as they may be seen as colluding with the PC manufacturers to sell more, unnecessary hardware by forcing people to upgrade. I wonder how much money/investment MS is getting from them.
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Old 06-28-2021, 11:34 AM   #22
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The current major problem is that if Windows 11 requires secure boot and TPM 2.0, its going to be a problem for over 500 million PC owners that have no hardware based TPM option. Motherboards older then the year 2015, most of the time do not have a required TPM header on the motherboard. Also while its true that AMD and Intel both make new CPU’s with TPM 2.0 built into the CPU, the problem is old motherboards well not accept those new CPU’s. One has to buy a new motherboard. New motherboard means buying a new CPU and usually new memory, etc.

So far 100% of the time TPM 2.0 always has to be hardware based. The advantage of having a old motherboard from 2015+ with a TPM header, is that if TPM version 3.0 comes out many years from now, all one needs to do is spend around $20 for a TPM module that plugs directly in the motherboard. The problem with placing the TPM 2.0 built into the AMD and Intel CPU is that if many years in the future TPM 3.0 is released, then one has to buy both a new motherboard and new CPU that supports TPM 3.0. There are big advantages of having a TPM header module on the motherboard, since one does not have to upgrade the entire PC as long as TPM modules are created for older motherboards from the years 2015+.

The biggest problem with requiring secure boot and TPM version 2.0 is that almost 100% of desktop and portable computers made before the year 2015 do not have any TPM hardware option. Currently Windows 11 security requires 100% hardware based TPM 2.0 to be either a plug in feature on the motherboard TPM header jack or a TPM 2.0 CPU. Its too bad Microsoft does not allow a TPM 2.0 PCI-e card or TPM 2.0 mini USB device that plugs into ones USB port. If TPM 2.0 could be offered as a simple mini USB stick that plugs into any USB port, then Windows 11 would work on PC’s up to 15 years old if the BIOS does not have to support TPM 2.0. Also if someone could develop a virtual software based TPM 2.0 program (which is not as secure as hardware based), then that would be another solution. But the biggest problem is motherboard manufactories are going to refuse to offer firmware updates on computers that are older then 5 years old, which well force people to buy a new PC if they want Windows 11.

So unless something changes if one wants to run Windows 11, they need a 100% hardware based TPM 2.0 option that is only offered in two forms: First option is a hardware based TPM 2.0 module that plugs into some motherboards that are no older then 6 or 7 years old. Second option is to buy a new Intel or AMD CPU and motherboard that supports TPM version 2.0.
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Old 06-28-2021, 12:02 PM   #23
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Maybe I'll get lucky and I can get my brother to upgrade my PC again when I see him in town again. He did just put a SSD and more memory into this thing, have to imagine doing that upgrade as well would be a major boost to the longevity and overall performance of my computer.
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Old 06-28-2021, 12:11 PM   #24
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I only have 2 PCs and neither supports W11. They are old and I will recycle them.

This new OS is just the nudge I needed to dump M$ completely. I don't use M$ in work environments and never had an Xbox so I don't lose anything.

My hope is I can tell people to stop asking me to make Windows work for them.
I will miss the "thrill" of making Windows work but I think I'm ready for life after Microsoft.

Thankfully printers will still give that techno frustration from time to time.

Last edited by bhampton; 06-28-2021 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 06-28-2021, 01:30 PM   #25
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There's an old saying, "If it's not broke, don't fix it.". Microsoft has yet to learn from this.
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Old 06-28-2021, 06:08 PM   #26
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Windows tells me my ASUS ROG STRIX B350-F is compatible. Not sure why I'd wanna upgrade, though. I'm sure they won't fix any of the issues I had with Windows 10, 8 and 7. Or implement a search/tagging system that isn't so limited and crappy.
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Old 06-29-2021, 12:01 AM   #27
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so if your check and tpm is saying 2.0 ya good and can go into windows 11 eh
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Old 06-29-2021, 12:55 AM   #28
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Looks like MS may ease up on the CPU requirements just a touch, allowing 7th gen Intel CPUs. The limiting factor may be hypervisor-protected code integrity (HVCI), which was new in 7th gen chips. There's not much feature difference between 7th and 8th to allow one and not the other.

TPM 2.0 may not be going anywhere, though.

I'd hold off on running out to get new equipment until this shakes out more thoroughly.
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Old 07-01-2021, 10:59 PM   #29
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The average consumer upgrades their main PC every 5 years. However, people with many family members sometimes keep their older PC’s for up to 15 years. Since Microsoft might not be making any changes to the Windows 11 requirements before launch date. This means that many people that want to upgrade from Windows 10 to Windows 11 well need to purchase a new PC if their PC is older then around 6 years old. There are over 500 million PC’s that do not have secure boot and TPM version 2.0 feature and one will be forced to run Windows 10 until free security updates are no longer offered. Microsoft normally supports a operating system for around 10 years, so in another 3 to 4 years Windows 10 in theory well not be getting any updates or security updates (but Microsoft has not officially announced when they well stop supporting Windows 10 yet).

6 years ago back in 2015, I did build a couple of ASROCK X99 motherboards with a i7 core processor for a family member and I, but I installed TPM version 1.2, since TPM version 2.0 chips were not released by ASROCK until March of 2017. The ASROCK TPM2-S module use to sell for around $15.99 plus free shipping, but now they cost around $150 each on EBAY if one can find one. If I do decide to go to Windows 11, hopefully ASROCK well decide to manufacture some more TPM 2.0 modules, or I would be forced to buy a new CPU and motherboard or pay around $150+ each for a TPM 2.0 module on EBAY that use to sell for $15.99 before the run on TPM chips. One of the main reasons i7 core CPU’s are on the minimum required Windows 11 list (Some motherboards that support i5 core CPU's might also work if a TPM feature exists on the motherboard, but that would require more reserch time in which I plan on not doing at this time), is because getting a CPU and motherboard older then i7 means no TPM header on the motherboard. If one owns a 13 year old X38 motherboard it lacks both i7 and the TPM header. A family member I know only has one 13 year old X38 computer. However, many people own a 11 year old X58 motherboard that does use a i7 CPU, however because a TPM header was not installed on the X58 motherboards no one can use one of those motherboards for Windows 11. So anyone on the planet earth and my family members that are using a X58 motherboard well not be able to run Windows 11 because of the minimum-security requirements of secure boot with TPM version 2.0. While I have never personally owned a Intel X79 motherboard that was released in November of 2011, the good news is, in my research I see some of the X79 motherboards which are i7 also have a Trusted Point Module header on the motherboard. Therefore if ones BIOS supports secure boot and if the motherboard manufactory still makes TPM version 2.0 modules (some only made version 1.2 modules), then the minimum entry level motherboard for Windows 11 would be the X79 motherboard if the BIOS has secure boot and if one can obtain a TPM version 2.0 module which might be out of production for some companies that made X79 and X99 motherboards.

In August of 2014 Intel released the X99 motherboards which became very popular and easy to obtain in the year 2015. X99 motherboards also have a i7 with a trusted point module header on the motherboard. So the oldest Intel based motherboards that can be used with Windows 11 is the X79 under ideal conditions and the X99 motherboards.

There is still going to be over 500 million PC’s that well not run Windows 11, but people with an older PC older then 6 years old that want to run Windows 11 well need to buy a new PC. The old PC’s well either be using a Lixux operating system instead of Windows, or the old PC’s well be sold and given to charity. Even some new PC’s on store shelfs, lack the TPM 2.0 feature in the CPU or on the motherboard, this is going to be a bigger problem then what Microsoft and most people expect when it comes time to upgrade to Windows 11.

If the Windows 11 launch ends up being a disaster then people can install Linux instead if they do not want to purchase a new PC. If one can make old i7 processors work with Windows 11 then the real limiting factor is the required secure boot with TPM 2.0 module feature that many people do not have.

Select quote from PC magazine article:

Much has been made over the system requirements for Windows 11, but they’re actually very low—1GHz CPU, 4GB RAM, and 64GB storage. You’ll also need a computer with a TPM security chip and Secure Boot capability. Those are less of a problem than the internet is making them out to be, as they’ve been standard on most PCs for the last six or so years. The real limiter will be the CPU model, which needs to be from about the last four years.

Microsoft Windows 11 Preview | PCMag

Last edited by HDTV1080P; 07-01-2021 at 11:33 PM.
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Old 07-01-2021, 11:28 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV1080P View Post
The average consumer upgrades their main PC every 5 years. However, people with many family members sometimes keep their older PC’s for up to 15 years.
Indeed. Between kids and parents, my personally-supported family IT infrastructure spans a wide range of hardware, none of it particularly new. Grandma's still rocking a laptop from 2007, which will make it 18 when Windows 10 goes EOL. The problem is, if the Win11 base specs remain as strict as they currently are, grandma can't get a hand-me-down like she normally would -- it's new machines for everyone, and that's quite a chunk of change.
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Old 07-01-2021, 11:30 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatBus View Post
Looks like MS may ease up on the CPU requirements just a touch, allowing 7th gen Intel CPUs. The limiting factor may be hypervisor-protected code integrity (HVCI), which was new in 7th gen chips. There's not much feature difference between 7th and 8th to allow one and not the other.

TPM 2.0 may not be going anywhere, though.

I'd hold off on running out to get new equipment until this shakes out more thoroughly.
Current reports say that the Windows 11 insider build can infact be installed on any hardware without any work arounds, so it will be interesting to see what the final requirements will be once we get the official build.
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Old 07-01-2021, 11:40 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatBus View Post
Indeed. Between kids and parents, my personally-supported family IT infrastructure spans a wide range of hardware, none of it particularly new. Grandma's still rocking a laptop from 2007, which will make it 18 when Windows 10 goes EOL. The problem is, if the Win11 base specs remain as strict as they currently are, grandma can't get a hand-me-down like she normally would -- it's new machines for everyone, and that's quite a chunk of change.
Also if someone does decide to spend several thousands of dollars to upgrade all their PC’s in the house, there is currently a semiconductor shortage. Maybe in a year or two that shortage well no longer exist. But if everyone on the planet went out and purchased only one new computer in late 2021 or early 2022, there would not be enough motherboard's and CPU’s to meet the demand. New computers could inflate 3 times their cost in a worse case scenario.

Last edited by HDTV1080P; 07-01-2021 at 11:45 PM.
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Old 07-01-2021, 11:40 PM   #33
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Didn't realize Windows 10 was so old. The last one I had was Windows 7 and it's obviously been a hot minute.
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Old 07-02-2021, 03:13 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV1080P View Post
The average consumer upgrades their main PC every 5 years. However, people with many family members sometimes keep their older PCs for up to 15 years. Since Microsoft might not be making any changes to the Windows 11 requirements before launch date. This means that many people that want to upgrade from Windows 10 to Windows 11 well need to purchase a new PC if their PC is older then around 6 years old. There are over 500 million PCs that do not have secure boot and TPM version 2.0 feature and one will be forced to run Windows 10 until free security updates are no longer offered. Microsoft normally supports a operating system for around 10 years, so in another 3 to 4 years Windows 10 in theory well not be getting any updates or security updates (but Microsoft has not officially announced when they well stop supporting Windows 10 yet).
My laptop is only four years old and "supposedly" won't be supported because of the i7 processor.
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Old 07-02-2021, 04:06 AM   #35
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Ha! I run Win 8.1 with a Classic Windows desktop.
Besides my self built i7 cpu system won’t even run ver. 11 evidently.

See no reason to try to figure out how Win 10 or 11 would work.
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Old 07-03-2021, 03:47 AM   #36
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Ha! I run Win 8.1 with a Classic Windows desktop.
Besides my self built i7 cpu system won’t even run ver. 11 evidently.

See no reason to try to figure out how Win 10 or 11 would work.
Windows 7 came out on October 22nd 2009, which is almost 12 years ago. On January 14th 2020 Microsoft stopped supporting the operating system with no more updates including no more security updates. That was 10 years of support. Then most people switched to Windows 10 in order to have a secure operating system.

Windows 8.1 was released on October 17th 2013 and Microsoft still supports the operating system with critical security updates. Microsoft has announced on January 10th 2023 that they well stop supporting the Windows 8.1 operating system including all security updates. This is when anyone still using Windows 8.1 well need to switch to a newer operating system like Windows 11 or something else. That is another example of Microsoft supporting a operating system for 10 years.

Windows 10 was released on July 29th 2015, which means that theoretically if the 10 year software support cycle holds, then Microsoft would stop supporting Windows 10 with no more updates including no more security updates in January of 2026. That would be 4 years and 6 months from now Windows 10 support would end. Then people would need to switch to Windows 11.

It was my understanding that some people were able to get their i7 and i5 core computer systems to work with Windows 11 BETA, as long as they had TPM 2.0 with secure boot feature on the motherboard. Reading some articles its when one does not have secure boot and TPM is when the install well not happen. Sometimes people with older CPU’s below 8th generation can get them to work.

I guess we well have to wait and see until the Windows 11 release date to see what the final absolute requirements are from Microsoft. But if TPM 2.0 with secure boot is a absolute requirement then Windows 11 might end up being a disaster at launch date with very few people being able to use the operating system.

Last edited by HDTV1080P; 07-03-2021 at 04:26 AM.
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Old 07-03-2021, 09:36 AM   #37
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I just read the Blue Screen of Death (BSOD) will be upgraded to a Black Screen of Death in windows 11.

That should reduce energy consumption a bit and it can keep the same initials.

I have to stop making my go to joke that I haven't used Windows in so long I can't remember what color the Blue Screen of Death is.

Seems like a pretty good reason to upgrade even if it means buying new hardware.

link-

https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/1/22...th-bsod-change

Microsoft certainly has a sense of humor, most everyone thought it was a joke when you had to use control/alt/delete to log onto Windows NT. Joke or not it was funny.

Last edited by bhampton; 07-03-2021 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 07-06-2021, 03:45 PM   #38
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The manufacturers of Mobos are pooping out lists of their boards that meet the security requirements for Windows 11 and firmware updates for select boards that don't have support for those features enabled will be released in the next year. Check your board update software and support pages regularly for more information.
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Old 07-07-2021, 09:54 PM   #39
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QUOTE

"If your PC doesn't meet one or more of the requirements above, it can't officially run Windows 11. If that's the case, youve got three main options. The easiest is to continue using Windows 10. Microsoft's current operating system is already excellent, and the company has committed to supporting it through at least 2025, which means your Windows 10 PC will continue to get security and feature updates for years to come."

https://www.pcmag.com/news/can-my-pc-run-windows-11
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Old 08-02-2021, 02:27 PM   #40
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Will this one go to 11?
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