Are CDs a preview to what's gonna happen to Blu-rays?

[Jar Jar Stinks]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

There are far less copies of each title sold but there aren't any less titles available. Most titles aren't sold in local stores because it's too hard to predict how many customers want each individual title in every town and city.

As long as the selection of titles available on Blu-ray continues to grow why should any of us care how many copies are sold of each one?

Because the selection won't continue to grow if sales are poor for individual titles. The titles might be increasing, but the total dollars are shrinking. A lot. When the total dollars get small enough, you'll see DVD/Blu-ray production follow the same path as the CD.

In 1999, at the music industry’s all-time revenue peak, CDs garnered $13 billion in sales, or almost 90% of music industry revenue. As file-sharing began to take its toll on the industry and revenues fell, CDs were the main casualty. Last year CDs only brought in $614 million or 5.5% of total revenue.

CDs’ year-over-year decreases in revenue hovered around the 20% from the mid-2000s until last year. But the downturn from the first half of 2019 to the first half of 2020 was 48%; CD sales were cut almost in half over the last year. CDs brought in only $130 million during the first half of this year; that’s only 2.3% of total industry revenue. CDs are now worth less to the industry than every category of music distribution other than tiny ones like ringtones and music video downloads.

[PenguinInfinity]

Yes, CDs and Blu-ray discs will both follow similar paths but neither of them are ever going to disappear. The days of new titles selling millions of copies are coming to an end but a disc only has to sell a few thousand copies to be profitable. All physical media will become more and more niche but that doesn't mean any of them will ever truly die.

Despite the fact that sales of all physical media have dropped by over 90% from their peak there are still thousands of new titles released on CD, DVD, and Blu-ray Disc every year. If the situation was really as dire as so many people make it out to be then all but the absolute most popular titles would have gone digital-only years ago. That hasn't happened and there is no sign that it will.

[PhysicalMediaNut]

This may have already been said, but I think there will always be a market for compact discs. At some point they will be considered “retro” and future hipsters will buy them like crazy. Sunrise Records is increasing there stock of cassette tapes last time I checked. I think it’s less about quality and more about possessing an artifact.

[ps3bd_owner]

Originally Posted by PhysicalMediaNut

This may have already been said, but I think there will always be a market for compact discs. At some point they will be considered “retro” and future hipsters will buy them like crazy. Sunrise Records is increasing there stock of cassette tapes last time I checked. I think it’s less about quality and more about possessing an artifact.

CDs have the advantage of offering the best audio quality while iTunes (AAC/M4A) and Amazon/Google (MP3) only provide compressed audio formats. It's ridiculous that Amazon and Google still use MP3 because it's a very outdated format.

Bandcamp on the other hand offers music in lossless format, but you won't find most artists or major ones selling their music there.

Physical media has its place for many reasons and will always be favored over streamed, at least for those who care about quality.

[Jar Jar Stinks]

Originally Posted by ps3bd_owner

CDs have the advantage of offering the best audio quality while iTunes (AAC/M4A) and Amazon/Google (MP3) only provide compressed audio formats.

Apple and Amazon offer HD quality lossless streams which are of higher quality than CDs.

[ps3bd_owner]

Originally Posted by Jar Jar Stinks

Apple and Amazon offer HD quality lossless streams which are of higher quality than CDs.

But actually downloadable it's still M4A and MP3?

I prefer to have the files than stream it.

[Jar Jar Stinks]

Originally Posted by ps3bd_owner

But actually downloadable it's still M4A and MP3?

I prefer to have the files than stream it.

You can buy downloadable HD music: https://www.qobuz.com/us-en/shop

[ps3bd_owner]

Originally Posted by Jar Jar Stinks

You can buy downloadable HD music: https://www.qobuz.com/us-en/shop

Amazing.

Wish I'd knew about this website years ago as I prefer lossless music.

[dcx4610]

Originally Posted by ps3bd_owner

Amazing.

Wish I'd knew about this website years ago as I prefer lossless music.

This site is the "main" site for lossless music if you didn't know about it:

https://www.hdtracks.com/

They aren't cheap but you gotta figure, it's not that much more than a CD, it's equal or higher quality and DRM-free.

Most of my collection I just ripped myself to FLAC but they are a good alternative for stuff you don't have if you want it legally.

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by Jar Jar Stinks

Apple and Amazon offer HD quality lossless streams which are of higher quality than CDs.

Maybe in rare cases but not really. There's little to no perceptible improvement beyond 16bit 44.1Khz and most of those 24bit 192Khz or 92Khz releases are fake and are just mainly add file size and nothing else.

[Jar Jar Stinks]

Originally Posted by Hatter

Maybe in rare cases but not really. There's little to no perceptible improvement beyond 16bit 44.1Khz and most of those 24bit 192Khz or 92Khz releases are fake and are just mainly add file size and nothing else.

Is that your opinion, or is it based on some objective criteria?

Amazon Music typically streams audio at a bitrate of around 320kbps, which is great compared to other platforms like Spotify and YouTube Music who currently only stream at 320kbps and 256kbps respectively.

Moreover, if you opt to listen to higher-quality audio, you can choose to switch to the HD setting. This option takes it a few steps further with an average bitrate of 850kbps. In some music, you can even upgrade it more with Ultra HD having an average of 3730kpbs.

Amazon Music HD doesn’t compress the original audio to deliver the highest quality sound available.

Their bitrates completely outclass anything offered by other platforms that stream at a max of 320kbps in Standard Definition (SD) with lossy compression.
https://www.headphonesty.com/2021/05...azon-music-hd/

I haven't listened to Amazon due to the limitations of my sound system. So, I can't judge as to whether HD sound is all that or not. Regardless, my point is that CDs are generally an outdated mode of file delivery.

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by Jar Jar Stinks

Is that your opinion, or is it based on some objective criteria?
[INDENT]Amazon Music typically streams audio at a bitrate of around 320kbps, which is great compared to other platforms like Spotify and YouTube Music who currently only stream at 320kbps and 256kbps respectively.

Moreover, if you opt to listen to higher-quality audio, you can choose to switch to the HD setting. This option takes it a few steps further with an average bitrate of 850kbps. In some music, you can even upgrade it more with Ultra HD having an average of 3730kpbs.

Amazon Music HD doesn’t compress the original audio to deliver the highest quality sound available.

Their bitrates completely outclass anything offered by other platforms that stream at a max of 320kbps in Standard Definition (SD) with lossy compression.


I haven't listened to Amazon due to the limitations of my sound system. So, I can't judge as to whether HD sound is all that or not. Regardless, my point is that CDs are generally an outdated mode of file delivery.

The fact that Amazon describes HD and Ultra HD it like that shows how full of s*** they are. Bit rate means absolutely nothing if the mastering job itself is garbage. One of the best modern examples is Stadium Arcadium. The CD was absolute garbage sonically. But the Vinyl sounds amazing. If they had just taken the CD and put it on vinyl, it still would have sounded like crap. But the vinyl was mastered by someone completely different (Steve Hoffman) who didn't do the industry standard of cranking everything up to 11 so that it sounds good in a car stereo.

Dynamic range comparison Stadium Arcadium


https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/l...dium+arcadium+

Look at how the 96Khz/24bit HD version seems to have taken the same terrible master they used for the CD's.

Just be careful when buying HD music. In many cases, the 192Khz/24bit option sounds no better than the 44.1Khz/16bit they are also selling due to the master used. Amazon may have some of the better regular streaming quality but I wasn't referring to that portion.

[dcx4610]

Originally Posted by Hatter

The fact that Amazon describes HD and Ultra HD it like that shows how full of s*** they are. Bit rate means absolutely nothing if the mastering job itself is garbage. One of the best modern examples is Stadium Arcadium. The CD was absolute garbage sonically. But the Vinyl sounds amazing. If they had just taken the CD and put it on vinyl, it still would have sounded like crap. But the vinyl was mastered by someone completely different (Steve Hoffman) who didn't do the industry standard of cranking everything up to 11 so that it sounds good in a car stereo.

Dynamic range comparison Stadium Arcadium


https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/l...dium+arcadium+

Look at how the 96Khz/24bit HD version seems to have taken the same terrible master they used for the CD's.

Just be careful when buying HD music. In many cases, the 192Khz/24bit option sounds no better than the 44.1Khz/16bit they are also selling due to the master used. Amazon may have some of the better regular streaming quality but I wasn't referring to that portion.

Has Hoffman's Stadium Arcadium master appeared anywhere other than vinyl? Any digital versions (other than vinyl rips) available?

[Jar Jar Stinks]

Originally Posted by Hatter

The fact that Amazon describes HD and Ultra HD it like that shows how full of s*** they are. Bit rate means absolutely nothing if the mastering job itself is garbage. One of the best modern examples is Stadium Arcadium. The CD was absolute garbage sonically. But the Vinyl sounds amazing. If they had just taken the CD and put it on vinyl, it still would have sounded like crap. But the vinyl was mastered by someone completely different (Steve Hoffman) who didn't do the industry standard of cranking everything up to 11 so that it sounds good in a car stereo.

You're arguing two different things. A garbage mastering job on a specific CD doesn't mean much within the context of talking about HD streams. I follow the discussions on SHF and I understand that dynamic range is often compromised on newer remastered releases. However, if the technology is optimally used, HD music (streams or dowloaded files) will be superior to conventional CD music.

[Hatter]

Many of those HD streams unfortunately are also resampled from 44.1Khz sources. At that point your just paying for wasted disk space. There are countless examples where the FLAC 44.1Khz/16 bit download version is the same as the 92-192Khz 24 bit ones because they are derived from the same initial source.

If done right of course they should be better, but that's more often not the case.

[MrChopChop]

If someone wants a physical format that is higher quality than CD what is there? Vinyls? SACD, DVD-A are pretty much dead and I don't think much music gets released on Blu-ray.

[gpete]

To me I just can't get on board with buying digital music because most of the stuff I'm looking for I can find cheaper on a CD, which is kind odd. That and hey, the old Sony 200 disc player still works just fine. I do rip the discs as well though.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by MrChopChop

If someone wants a physical format that is higher quality than CD what is there? Vinyls? SACD, DVD-A are pretty much dead and I don't think much music gets released on Blu-ray.

I'm lucky because most music I collect is Pink Floyd and they seem to be enthusiastic about Blu Ray. I'm happy with Pink Floyd Related Blu Rays I've purchased. I only have a single SACD and that's DSotM. I wouldn't expect vinyl to be higher quality than CD.

Pink Floyd Related Blu Rays so far

[Show spoiler] Dark Side of the Moon
Wish You Were Here
Meddle
Atom Heart Mother (Quad)
A Momentary Lapse of Reason
The Division Bell
The Endless River
Pulse
Delicate Sound of Thunder
(Animals is due this year)
Live 8 (DVD)

Roger Waters Amused to Death, The Wall (2014), In the Flesh (DVD), Us and Them
David Gilmour Live at Pompeii, Remember That Night, Rattle That Lock, Gdansk, On an Island
Nick Mason Saucerful of Secrets

I think my kids have no physical music collection. We do have Apple Music and there's some high res better than CD stuff on there including Pink Floyd Animals months ahead of a physical release. I have lost some CDs I didn't ever plan to get rid of and they are not on Apple Music.

[R3P0]

Originally Posted by MrChopChop

If someone wants a physical format that is higher quality than CD what is there? Vinyls? SACD, DVD-A are pretty much dead and I don't think much music gets released on Blu-ray.

Vinyl has made a comeback lol its expensive as hell and limited but its out there