Billy Wilder on Blu-ray

[Dailyan]

Originally Posted by bonehica

Good to know. Will hold out for the Kino. I do love those MoC booklets, though!

It's really bad in the opening with the dunes of the desert looking particularly rough. The interior design such as windows also suffer. It also doesn't help that Franchot Tone and Anne Baxter wear pin-striped shirts for most of the film. I'm hoping that Kino's remaster can tone these issues down.

[Gunsnroses092789]

Originally Posted by Dailyan

It's really bad in the opening with the dunes of the desert looking particularly rough. The interior design such as windows also suffer. It also doesn't help that Franchot Tone and Anne Baxter wear pin-striped shirts for most of the film. I'm hoping that Kino's remaster can tone these issues down.

Kino's new scans are usually very solid and capable, so I wouldn't worry too much.

It sucks that Eureka are touting this as a new 4K restoration when it's clearly not... I wonder if they're aware or not.

[Richard--W]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

...
I just watched Sherlock last night and was AMAZED, even in its truncated form it's brilliant. It's absolutely astounding how many genres he could work in.

Christopher Lee is interviewed on the disc and, having worked with Spielberg, Peter Jackson, Tim Burton, and a legion of other major directors, he says that Wilder was the most brilliant director he ever worked with, without question.

I still need to watch the deleted scenes.

What did you think of Robert Stephens as Holmes?

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by Richard--W

What did you think of Robert Stephens as Holmes?

I really liked him, I'd only seen him a few times before. The most notable thing I'd seen him in is the miniseries War & Remembrance, one of my favorite pieces of filmed fiction ever. I rewatch it every few years, and just rewatched it this spring. He plays the evil commandant of a concentration camp in it. Since that was the role I know him for the most, it was fascinating to see him as Sherlock.

I'll shamefully admit that I haven't read any of the Sherlock Holmes books though, so I'm not the person to ask about whether his portrayal was accurate to how the character was written.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by thatguamguy

I have the Image disc, it's reasonably solid considering that it's an obscure German movie from the '30's.

It's not worth over-paying for, the movie is really nothing special, just a curiosity. And remember, I'm the guy who *really* liked "The Emperor's Waltz", so you know I'm a sucker for Wilder.

I get the sense the Flicker Alley may just be a port of the OOP Image disc, since it has the same special feature, a short film. I'm not thrilled that the Flicker Alley is a DVD-R, but the film seems like it may not be worth the extra effort of tracking down the Image disc.

I'm definitely not expecting much, I'm re-reading the Cameron Crowe interview book now and Wilder pretty much dismisses this one completely.

It's funny to see how many of his movies Wilder dismisses completely, he seems fully aware of which ones worked and which ones didn't, which is rare for a filmmaker. I really admire it. There's no attempt to defend Buddy Buddy, for example, he recognizes it was a disaster, and is shocked when Crowe praises elements in it, or in some of his other failures.

When you have the number of sheer masterpieces he did, granted, it's easier to dismiss the outright failures.

Still, I really love how honest he is about his own work.

[Richard--W]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

I really liked him, I'd only seen him a few times before. The most notable thing I'd seen him in is the miniseries War & Remembrance, one of my favorite pieces of filmed fiction ever. I rewatch it every few years, and just rewatched it this spring. He plays the evil commandant of a concentration camp in it. Since that was the role I know him for the most, it was fascinating to see him as Sherlock.

I'll shamefully admit that I haven't read any of the Sherlock Holmes books though, so I'm not the person to ask about whether his portrayal was accurate to how the character was written.

I saw The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes during its original roadshow release, which
lasted about two weeks. According to the film-going journal I kept at the time -- and
my own flypaper memory -- the audience I was with reacted badly to the first twenty
minutes. As soon as Holmes opened his mouth to speak, the film was over for them,
and the ensuing joke was not appreciated. Nobody laughed. I think people expected
a suspense-adventure and weren't ready for a Sherlock Holmes comedy. I didn't
have another chance to see it again because it left too soon. It's one of my favorite
films. In my top 10. I think it's white-hot brilliant. You know, it was intended for Peter
O'Toole and Jack Lemmon. O'Toole turned it down to do the remake of Goodbye Mr.
Chips, and Lemmon had conflicting commitments. Stephens -- who was then riding
high on The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie -- fails to find the right groove as Holmes. He's
way off-pitch. But Colin Blakely steals the film. His performance is a juggling act as
he keeps a dozen different states-of-being going at once and each one is pitch-perfect
in relation to the other. His apoplectic reaction to Holmes' little joke is painfully hilarious.
I can't imagine Lemmon doing any better. I bought the paperback noveliziation, then
the VHS, the laser disc, the DVD and now two different blu-ray editions (MoC preferred).
It's the only one-sheet I own. I hope they are able to fully restore the excised footage
someday, although it doesn't look hopeful.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by Richard--W

I saw The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes during its original roadshow release, which
lasted about two weeks. According to the film-going journal I kept at the time -- and
my own flypaper memory -- the audience I was with reacted badly to the first twenty
minutes. As soon as Holmes opened his mouth to speak, the film was over for them,
and the ensuing joke was not appreciated. Nobody laughed. I think people expected
a suspense-adventure and weren't ready for a Sherlock Holmes comedy. I didn't
have another chance to see it again because it left too soon. It's one of my favorite
films. In my top 10. I think it's white-hot brilliant. You know, it was intended for Peter
O'Toole and Jack Lemmon. O'Toole turned it down to do the remake of Goodbye Mr.
Chips, and Lemmon had conflicting commitments. Stephens -- who was then riding
high on The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie -- fails to find the right groove as Holmes. He's
way off-pitch. But Colin Blakely steals the film. His performance is a juggling act as
he keeps a dozen different states-of-being going at once and each one is pitch-perfect
in relation to the other. His apoplectic reaction to Holmes' little joke is painfully hilarious.
I can't imagine Lemmon doing any better. I bought the paperback noveliziation, then
the VHS, the laser disc, the DVD and now two different blu-ray editions (MoC preferred).
It's the only one-sheet I own. I hope they are able to fully restore the excised footage
someday, although it doesn't look hopeful.

I really loved it too. Having now seen all but three Wilder films (Mauvaise Graine, Five Graves to Cairo and The Emperor Waltz) it's among my favorites. I watched all the deleted scenes, and they're all great, but the emotional core is his love affair with the

[Show spoiler]female German spy

, so I don't miss those portions so much, their loss doesn't ruin the film. The only one I really wish could have been re-inserted is the opening sequence with John Williams as the banker in charge of the safe deposit box and Blakely as Watson's grandson.

I especially love the ending. The editor has a big long featurette on the BD, where he mentions that he tried to convince Wilder to include a comedic scene at the end, with a joke reminiscent of the one at the end of Some like It Hot, but Wilder steadfastly refused. Thank goodness. The

[Show spoiler]mournful, bleak ending, with Holmes retreating back into his cocaine on learning of her death,

is really powerful.

And the Rosza score is gorgeous.

[Richard--W]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

I really loved it too. Having now seen all but three Wilder films (Mauvaise Graine, Five Graves to Cairo and The Emperor Waltz) it's among my favorites. I watched all the deleted scenes, and they're all great, but the emotional core is his love affair with the

[Show spoiler]female German spy

, so I don't miss those portions so much, their loss doesn't ruin the film. The only one I really wish could have been re-inserted is the opening sequence with John Williams as the banker in charge of the safe deposit box and Blakely as Watson's grandson.

I especially love the ending. The editor has a big long featurette on the BD, where he mentions that he tried to convince Wilder to include a comedic scene at the end, with a joke reminiscent of the one at the end of Some like It Hot, but Wilder steadfastly refused. Thank goodness. The

[Show spoiler]mournful, bleak ending, with Holmes retreating back into his cocaine on learning of her death,

is really powerful.

And the Rosza score is gorgeous.

I agree. I would also like to see the deleted scene in which Watson and Lestrade fake a
murder and nail the furniture to the ceiling to see if they can fool Holmes. Holmes' little
joke at the ballet at Watson's expense may then be taken as getting even. At current
length I'd say for about 95 minutes it's the best Sherlock Holmes films ever made. I
found the Rosza score on CD and a CD of the classic score he based it on. I guess it's
my favorite score.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by Richard--W

I agree. I would also like to see the deleted scene in which Watson and Lestrade fake a
murder and nail the furniture to the ceiling to see if they can fool Holmes. Holmes' little
joke at the ballet at Watson's expense may then be taken as getting even. At current
length I'd say for about 95 minutes it's the best Sherlock Holmes films ever made. I
found the Rosza score on CD and a CD of the classic score he based it on. I guess it's
my favorite score.

Ah, that's true, because that sequence makes their friendship clearer, and ends with that really sad note of Sherlock promising not to use any more drugs, but the promise being a lie. It's a nice character beat.

Shame all those deleted scenes only exist in fragments, so none can be reinserted.

I was re-reading the Cameron Crowe book last night, and Wilder mentioned this. Crowe asked him if he'd be in favor of the deleted scenes being reinserted, if they could be found, but Wilder said no, even though he felt the film had been brutalized by the editors in his absence, he said the film should remain as it was, he was not a fan of tinkering with films after they were released. yet another reason to like him.

[James Luckard]

Wow, the Beaver review shows that the MoC BD of Five Graves has a cigarette burn in one of the frame examples, just like the DVD. That would mean it can't be from the negative, it must be from a release print. No way this is KL's restoration. Glad I held off on ordering the MoC and waited for the KL.

Look at the final comparison captures:
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film9/blu-r...ro_blu-ray.htm

[Dailyan]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

Wow, the Beaver review shows that the MoC BD of Five Graves has a cigarette burn in one of the frame examples, just like the DVD. That would mean it can't be from the negative, it must be from a release print. No way this is KL's restoration. Glad I held off on ordering the MoC and waited for the KL.

It's most likely something like a fine grain master. Certain films can have cigarette burns introduced during the pre-print process (most likely to test how reel changes will be in theaters). Almost no major studio is going to use a release print as a basis for a home video master unless it might be the absolute best surviving element (ironically, a lot of audio masters can be taken directly from a film print). The cigarette burns are present throughout the film. Surprisingly, there's very little in terms of something like white specks or scratches.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by Dailyan

It's most likely something like a fine grain master. Certain films can have cigarette burns introduced during the pre-print process (most likely to test how reel changes will be in theaters). Almost no major studio is going to use a release print as a basis for a home video master unless it might be the absolute best surviving element (ironically, a lot of audio masters can be taken directly from a film print). The cigarette burns are present throughout the film. Surprisingly, there's very little in terms of something like white specks or scratches.

Ah, interesting, I didn't know that much about the process, I thought cigarette burns were only on release prints. At least they shouldn't be on KL's 4K remaster, which I presume is from the negative.

[Dailyan]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

Ah, interesting, I didn't know that much about the process, I thought cigarette burns were only on release prints. At least we know they won't be on KL's 4K remaster from the negative.

I know that the HD master for the Criterion release of "Head" had the cue marks zoomed in so they wouldn't show (all home video releases have been made from the same IP). Also, I don't believe Kino ever stated what element they were using for their remaster.

[Dailyan]

I cooked up a quick comparison with the French disc and the Eureka disc just to double confirm that it is the same master (the only real difference, besides any encoding, is the French release is slightly brighter):
https://screenshotcomparison.com/com...5395/picture:0

[Reddington]

Beaver's review of the KL release of Five Graves to Cairo, with comparison to the MoC:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film9/blu-r...ro_blu-ray.htm

[James Luckard]

Wow, HUGE difference.
Glad I held out for the KL.

It's a shame that MoC is falsely advertising that the 4K restoration is on their disc too. Even as I type this, their website still says their disc has the 4K restoration:
https://eurekavideo.co.uk/movie/five-graves-to-cairo/

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

Wow, HUGE difference.
Glad I held out for the KL.

It's a shame that MoC is falsely advertising that the 4K restoration is on their disc too. Even as I type this, their website still says their disc has the 4K restoration:
https://eurekavideo.co.uk/movie/five-graves-to-cairo/

I've had very good experiences with EUREKA customer service and, of course, have had very few issues with most of their releases, so I'm willing to cut them some slack. But I think the way they've handled this release does not put them in a good light. They posted awhile back that they were sent the wrong materials by Universal, but also intimated they did not realize this until the Blu had already been released? If so, that's pretty hard to believe. Maintaining on their site that this is indeed the proper 4K remaster is downright deception.

James, I'm happy you held off and didn't buy the MOC like I did, but at least I learned a lesson and that is no more pre-orders before the facts are in and certainly not from overseas where returning them for a refund is cost prohibitive. I honestly think EUREKA should man up on this one, redo it and offer their customers a replacement disc. No matter how one might try to explain or excuse it, it still comes up as false advertising.

[Gunsnroses092789]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

I've had very good experiences with EUREKA customer service and, of course, have had very few issues with most of their releases, so I'm willing to cut them some slack. But I think the way they've handled this release does not put them in a good light. They posted awhile back that they were sent the wrong materials by Universal, but also intimated they did not realize this until the Blu had already been released? If so, that's pretty hard to believe. Maintaining on their site that this is indeed the proper 4K remaster is downright deception.

James, I'm happy you held off and didn't buy the MOC like I did, but at least I learned a lesson and that is no more pre-orders before the facts are in and certainly not from overseas where returning them for a refund is cost prohibitive. I honestly think EUREKA should man up on this one, redo it and offer their customers a replacement disc. No matter how one might try to explain or excuse it, it still comes up as false advertising.

To my knowledge, it's the only time Eureka has made a mistake, so I won't hold it against them, though it is very disappointing.

When did Eureka acknowledge that they were aware that their master was not the correct one?

If I had to guess, I would what happened is that when Universal knew that Kino was working on a 4K scan, they probably put on their "list" that they had a 4K master before they had it in their possession and didn't inform Eureka of it. So Eureka, thinking it already existed, put their release date for August and by the time they found out, it would have messed up their plans. I don't buy that they didn't realize until after the release. I would buy that they didn't realize until after they manufactured all the discs.

[Professor Echo]

^^^

I couldn’t find the original quote while searching on my phone, but I had re-posted my frustration with the situation in the dedicated EUREKA thread and someone was kind enough to respond with Eureka’s original comment (see link below). It isn’t exactly as I remembered, but it still strikes me that they are being deceptive with their advertising. I love EUREKA, but I didn’t love their response and I’m disappointed that I have to spend more money to buy something over again because they weren’t as forthcoming as I think they should have been. Oh well, lesson learned about pre-orders before reading reviews.

http://https://forum.blu-ray.com/sho...ostcount=36620

[Gunsnroses092789]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

^^^

I couldn’t find the original quote while searching on my phone, but I had re-posted my frustration with the situation in the dedicated EUREKA thread and someone was kind enough to respond with Eureka’s original comment (see link below). It isn’t exactly as I remembered, but it still strikes me that they are being deceptive with their advertising. I love EUREKA, but I didn’t love their response and I’m disappointed that I have to spend more money to buy something over again because they weren’t as forthcoming as I think they should have been. Oh well, lesson learned about pre-orders before reading reviews.

http://https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=18047929&postcount=36620

Yes, it is disappointing. And I would guess someone is BSing. Either Eureka or Universal. I would highly doubt Eureka's is from a 4K master. It looks like a nice/solid but older HD. If it was a 4K scan, Kino wouldn't have spent the extra money to make their own.