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Old 03-16-2016, 08:21 PM   #1361
pmil pmil is offline
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Originally Posted by dobyblue View Post
You said "I guess you're a big believer in supplements too" - all vitamins, minerals, amino acids, etc., are supplements...there was nothing OBVIOUS about your post at all if you were only referring to protein supplements and/or weight loss supplements.

Can't seen to located any citations in your post and I don't think a shrug smiley really substitutes, but as for "crap" regarding Vitamin D, even students located errors with the IOM's RDAs.
http://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/6/10/4472/htm

An extremely restrictive diet?
"Very few foods in nature contain vitamin D"
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Vi...hProfessional/

Why would you wait until you have Type IV CHF to take ubiquinol?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19096107

What medical doctor in NA prescribes or recommends CoQ10 when prescribing statins despite knowing it depletes the body's resources?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3096178/

Why would you wait until you have c.diff to start a daily probiotic regime if you're not big on the taste of raw sauerkraut?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23728658

What percentage of an MDs curriculum is spent studying nutraceuticals?

Ignorance and deception? How did Vioxx get approved?

"The case against science is straightforward: much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue. Afflicted by studies with small sample sizes, tiny effects, invalid exploratory analyses, and flagrant conflicts of interest, together with an obsession for pursuing fashionable trends of dubious importance, science has taken a turn towards darkness."
Dr. Richard Horton, editor-in-chief, The Lancet.

"It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of the New England Journal of Medicine"
Marcia Angell, MD, former executive editor and former acting editor-in-chief, NEJM.

Supplements may well be a multi-billion dollar industry, the vast majority of inferior top selling brands owned by pharmaceutical companies (One-A-Day, Centrum), but I'd wager that SSRIs alone almost match them and even JAMA concludes they perform no better than placebo for mild to moderate depression, which given how many Americans are on them is likely a very large percentage.
jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=185157

Cymbalta all by itself is a multi-billion dollar industry.
Yep. The whole pharmaceutical industry and the FDA is corrupt. Look at where we are at today with so many people on dangerous anti-depressants. Two of the biggest side-effects from them are suicidal and homicidal thoughts and actions. I believe they are responsible for most of the mass shootings in America.

I had a couple of female friends that were prescribed anti-depressants for feeling a bit down and they turned into completely different people that weren't altogether there, and ended up quite angry and scary. It was heartbreaking to watch.

That got me interested in researching the side-effects of them and the huge amount of evidence of their danger and ineffectiveness is shocking. It's downright criminal that such a class of drugs is being sold.

Scientists, doctors, and similar analytical and logical professions, ironically, are also some of the most egotistical, biased, and corrupt people you could ever meet. Don't automatically trust doctors, including psychiatrists. Do your own research people. I'm old enough to have run into many that were unbelievably incompetent and downright dangerous.
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Old 03-16-2016, 08:27 PM   #1362
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Originally Posted by WhySoBlu? View Post
Context clues? Following the entire conversation before jumping in? Perhaps asking for clarification? No?


Clearly I struck a nerve. If you're big into snakeoil, more power to you.

"These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease."
The corrupt and fascist FDA forces natural remedy companies they are against to make such statements. God forbid we actually heal people rather than treat people to keep corrupt pharmaceutical companies being paid for BS treatments.

Science is great. Hopefully one day all scientists in the drug and medical field, especially, will be able to actual practice science. Until then such people should always be questioned and looked upon with skepticism, if you care about your well being, and the well being of others.
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Old 03-16-2016, 08:51 PM   #1363
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This is true - that can happen. Of course, dieting alone is quite often ineffective for long-term weight loss.

It can be. It can also be for losing weight. And it can also be for gaining strength. It can even be a combination of all three.

If that's true, that just means the vast majority of people that exercise regularly are doing the wrong exercises (or doing the right ones incorrectly.) They're probably focusing on cardio exercises rather than weight training (you know the types - they trundle along on a treadmill for 20 minutes before heading home, convinced they've accomplished something.)

The thing is, exercises are not all created equally. Cardio alone has been shown in studies to be far less effective for losing fat than regimens that include weight training. Weight training causes your body to burn calories even at rest, while it recovers from the workout. Gotta love that lean muscle mass...
Wrong, starting with your definition of diet. The definition of diet is simply what people *habitually* eat. One *has to* habitually consume a certain amount of calories to maintain a certain weight, period. Diet is all that matters for maintaining weight. Lifelong skinny people, such as myself, are aware of this.

This upside down world we live in has added a new definition to diet, one that involves a temporary state, opposite of what diet really means.

To burn the amount of calories to reduce significant amounts of weight in most fat people would require very many hours of exercise many times a week for it to have a meaningful effect. People simply don't understand how much effort it takes to burn calories. They have been wrongly taught that if they exercise regularly they will become thin. That will not happen since most people will never commit to doing the amount of exercise needed to accomplish a significant weight loss, and that's OK. Too much exercise is not good for you.

It doesn't matter what kind of exercise you do, in the pursuit of burning calories. You could do moderate cardio and burn very little calories. You could do strenuous cardio and burn many more calories. The same applies to weight lifting.

A big part of so many people remaining fat today is all the distracting and incorrect discussions, such as yours, that get in the way of the simple truth to maintain whatever weight you want. Amount of calories in = whatever weight you want. It's that simple.

People should exercise for health and strength and disregard the silly notion that regular and reasonable amounts of exercise is going to make a significant difference for those who are fat. It will not.

As I have always said, if you want to be thin then watch what thin people do and ask for their advice. It boggles my mind when I see so many fat people constantly discussing amongst themselves, and telling thin people, how a person should lose weight. Most times they are simply making excuses for themselves.

That's the truth. No madness and lies of political correctness.
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Old 03-16-2016, 09:07 PM   #1364
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Wrong, starting with your definition of diet.
There are multiple definitions of the word diet. My use of it was not "wrong."

But thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmil View Post
To burn the amount of calories to reduce significant amounts of weight in most fat people would require very many hours of exercise many times a week for it to have a meaningful effect.
Nonsense. Doing the right exercises 3-4 times a week will absolutely provide meaningful results. It may take a few months, or even a year, to really start seeing results, but as long as you continue to exercise you will increase lean muscle mass and burn fat. Of course, eating less helps, but weight training makes a world of difference - but you have to be consistent for best results.

I'm not sure why you're so against exercise - perhaps because, being a "lifelong skinny person" you've never been able to build any significant amount of muscle mass. Or maybe it's something else. Either way, I really couldn't care less.
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Originally Posted by pmil View Post
It doesn't matter what kind of exercise you do, in the pursuit of burning calories. You could do moderate cardio and burn very little calories. You could do strenuous cardio and burn many more calories. The same applies to weight lifting.
It absolutely does matter. Weight training causes you to burn calories even while at rest - cardio does not. There have been several studies that show that out of three choices - diet alone, diet plus cardio, and diet plus cardio plus weight training - the groups that added weight training not only lost more weight, but the weight was from fat (as opposed to a mix of fat and muscle, which is what you tend to lose if you only do cardio.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmil View Post
As I have always said, if you want to be thin then watch what thin people do and ask for their advice. It boggles my mind when I see so many fat people constantly discussing amongst themselves, and telling thin people, how a person should lose weight. Most times they are simply making excuses for themselves.
Why would someone want to be "thin?" I'd rather be fit and actually have some muscle myself, and that's not going to happen following in the footsteps of skinny people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmil View Post
A big part of so many people remaining fat today is all the distracting and incorrect discussions, such as yours, that get in the way of the simple truth to maintain whatever weight you want.
Herp a derp.

A big part of so many people remaining fat today is their sedentary lifestyle coupled with poor eating habits.

You can keep on pretending that weight training has no effect on losing weight - won't make it true.

The next logical question is: what is someone who's never struggled with losing weight doing in this thread? But of course, that answer's fairly obvious, isn't it?

Edited to add: But really - what more is there to say here? I'm basically repeating myself, so I'll just bow out and leave you guys to it.

Last edited by WhySoBlu?; 03-16-2016 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 03-16-2016, 11:02 PM   #1365
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The problem with using exercise over diet to lose weight (fat) is that I teaches you nothing about how to eat in moderation, it teaches you nothing about portion control. I jumped on my static bike for an hour today and, using a HRM burned my way through approximately 950 calories using a mixture of strenuous 145bpm tempo and flat out 160bpm tempo (at my age and weight my max bmp should be 150ish).
Without the help of a quality, calorie controlled diet what's stopping me thinking 'well, I've just earned enough calories for that dominos pizza, or a nice curry with naan and poppadoms. I'll wash it down with a few drinks and a pudding". That one meal might cost you 1500 calories on its own easily, and that's before you take into account everything else you have eaten.
I lost my first 4 stones in a year with nothing more than a cico diet, no exercise. If you have a substantial amount of weight to lose, leave exercise for fitness and concentrate on your diet and retraining your eating habits.
The only caveat where I would concede that exercise is as important as diet is when you are very close to your goal weight. Physically and psychologically it becomes very very difficult to lose that last bit, especially around your stomach when you have visceral fat around your organs that's always the last to go. That's when exercise can help to push you on.
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Old 03-19-2016, 02:57 PM   #1366
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Originally Posted by WhySoBlu? View Post
There are multiple definitions of the word diet. My use of it was not "wrong."

But thanks.

Nonsense. Doing the right exercises 3-4 times a week will absolutely provide meaningful results. It may take a few months, or even a year, to really start seeing results, but as long as you continue to exercise you will increase lean muscle mass and burn fat. Of course, eating less helps, but weight training makes a world of difference - but you have to be consistent for best results.

I'm not sure why you're so against exercise - perhaps because, being a "lifelong skinny person" you've never been able to build any significant amount of muscle mass. Or maybe it's something else. Either way, I really couldn't care less.

It absolutely does matter. Weight training causes you to burn calories even while at rest - cardio does not. There have been several studies that show that out of three choices - diet alone, diet plus cardio, and diet plus cardio plus weight training - the groups that added weight training not only lost more weight, but the weight was from fat (as opposed to a mix of fat and muscle, which is what you tend to lose if you only do cardio.)


Why would someone want to be "thin?" I'd rather be fit and actually have some muscle myself, and that's not going to happen following in the footsteps of skinny people.

Herp a derp.

A big part of so many people remaining fat today is their sedentary lifestyle coupled with poor eating habits.

You can keep on pretending that weight training has no effect on losing weight - won't make it true.

The next logical question is: what is someone who's never struggled with losing weight doing in this thread? But of course, that answer's fairly obvious, isn't it?

Edited to add: But really - what more is there to say here? I'm basically repeating myself, so I'll just bow out and leave you guys to it.
*Read more carefully; I'm not against exercise. I have merely stated the fact that reasonable amounts of exercise a few times a week is not going to make a meaningful difference for people that are fat. By fat I don't mean being a bit overweight.

* Thin: "not having a lot of extra flesh on the body : not fat."
-Mirriam Webster
You seem to think a person being thin equals not having muscle mass. Of course most people are not trying to become bodybuilders. It should also be obvious in the context of the discussion that thin is simply referring to the absence of excess fat.

* You do care what I have to say or you would not be responding to me.

* Since you are in this thread and are questioning why a lifelong skinny person like me is in this thread, that must mean you have struggled with your weight at one time or another, or still to this day.

The question fat people should be asking themselves is do I listen to someone like myself or do I go to those that have always been thin (the experts) and ask about and see what they do that has given them 100% success throughout their lives.

It should be very obvious why a lifelong skinny person like myself is in this thread. I am trying to help fat people achieve permanent weight loss and the most obvious way to do that is to dispel all the nonsense that fat people have to sift through in their quest to become thin and stay thin.

Sadly most fat people will ignore lifelong skinny people as genetic freaks and will continue to talk amongst themselves on what they need to do to get thin while continuing to fail over and over and over again. They will also line the pockets of those in the exercise, supplement, and medical fields that wish to profit of their continuing misery and failure to lose weight.
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Old 03-19-2016, 03:20 PM   #1367
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I think this thread should be a positive place for people trying to lose weight, not a negative one where battle lines are drawn between fat and skinny people. Share what worked for you and what didn't; no need to be unpleasant about it.
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Old 03-20-2016, 02:13 PM   #1368
Dex Robinson Dex Robinson is offline
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Originally Posted by pmil View Post
...
The question fat people should be asking themselves is do I listen to someone like myself or do I go to those that have always been thin (the experts) and ask about and see what they do that has given them 100% success throughout their lives...
Frankly, fat people shouldn't be taking advice from either group.

They don't need advice from other fat people and they don't need advice from people who have always been thin.

An alcoholic won't get useful advice from another alcoholic...or from a teetotaler. I've never been an alcohol drinker. If an alcohlic came to me and asked for advice, I'd say, "Just do exactly what I do. I'm an expert. Stop drinking. Problem solved".

Yeah, that helps.

Fat people need advice from people who were fat at one time, lost weight...and kept the weight off. In other words, they need advice from somebody who fought the battle and won. Thin people are armchair generals: full of ideas that they've never put into practice.

I was a fat kid. And I got fatter. By the time I was a high school senior, I was 245lbs...on a frame that's 5' 9" on a good day (5' 8 1/2" on most days ). I realized that weight wasn't going to cut it when I got out into the real world (I wanted to learn to fly...and I did). I entered my last year of high school in 1975 at 245lbs. I graduated in June of 1976 at 165lbs. My Department of Transport ID card from September of 1976 lists my weight as 165lbs. I got on the scale last Friday and, almost 40 years later, my weight shows as 166.4lbs.

This message is already too long to go into the detailed story.

Short version: Less food, more activity. My food intake is portion controlled. I deny myself nothing. I couldn't live in a world without pizza, cake, French fries or Doritos. But I can't eat them every day. And when I want a big bag of Doritos, I'll settle for a small bag. Don't sit all day. I'm about to go for an hour long walk. I have no place to go and, honestly, I'd rather watch TV...but I get out and go for a long walk every single day because it's not only exercise but it keeps me away from the refrigerator .
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Old 03-20-2016, 02:31 PM   #1369
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I recently joined the gym and have been working on my diet to lose weight. I have a question though, one not necessarily specifically weight orientated but more exercise orientated and I couldn't find a better place to ask. When I do weights, it obviously hurts at the time but it then takes several days for the muscle soreness to kick in, is that normal? I know what DOMS is, but shouldn't that kick in the next day and then worsen for a couple of days? Rather than being fine for a few days THEN kick in?
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Old 03-22-2016, 05:21 PM   #1370
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I recently joined the gym and have been working on my diet to lose weight. I have a question though, one not necessarily specifically weight orientated but more exercise orientated and I couldn't find a better place to ask. When I do weights, it obviously hurts at the time but it then takes several days for the muscle soreness to kick in, is that normal? I know what DOMS is, but shouldn't that kick in the next day and then worsen for a couple of days? Rather than being fine for a few days THEN kick in?

It should never 'hurt' (as in pain) while training, if it is then you need to stop/rest and reevaluate your weight/form.
As for DOMS there's no rule really, a lot will depend on the extent of muscle damage that's being repaired and how active your are, I've had days were I've had DOMS the day after, 2/3 days after and days where I have had no DOMS at all.
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Old 03-22-2016, 05:32 PM   #1371
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Thoughts on keto?
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Old 03-23-2016, 09:13 AM   #1372
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Thoughts on keto?
It's a popular diet for sure however it's far to restrictive for my lifestyle and would be unsustainable day to day so i concentrate on cico and making sure my macro's hit the right ratios.
Typically though, a ketogenic diet will be a calorie deficit diet with macros of approx 70% fat, 25% protein and 5% net carbs.
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Old 06-09-2016, 03:42 PM   #1373
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Its a shame this thread devolved into arguments, I have been trying to lose weight over the last few months and if there is one thing I learned from the reading I have done is that different approaches work for different people and that everyone has their own story to tell. Reading what people had to share here about themselves was for the most part inspiring and it sucks to see so little activity now as it appears people are less willing to share their experiences. It really sucks when someone diminishes the effort that you have taken, it might seem petty but for example I work with mostly women and I couldn't tell you how many times that someone noticed I had lost weight and then made mention of how easy it is for men or that I didn't need to lose any anyways.

So far I'm down 34lbs since March 9th, I've been counting calories and eating at a deficit and I have committed to a keto diet. I am not exercising any more than I normally would, I walk a fair amount and play at least 6 games of softball a week from May to October as I have for years. I am drinking a whole lot more water. My plan is to hit my goal of 170lbs (13 more to go) and then either try for another 10 or start moving towards a maintenance caloric intake and reintroduce carbs again and start on some lifting. I have some anxiety over the whole gym thing though, I generally don't like crowds and busy places, I don't want to have to wait around for certain machines and I generally don't care to socialize with the stereotypical meat heads; ultimately though this all probably has most to do with insecurities that I carry.

I decided on trying keto as after the first week of calorie counting and eating at a deficit I was hungry and craving snacks a lot. When I looked at my macros my diet consisted of around 60% carbs and it always has; I grew up in a meat and potato family. I didn't think I ate terribly but once I started counting and seeing the numbers add up with my multiple coffees with 2 creams and 2 sugars throughout the day, fruit juices (here I figured I would cut out pop and drink juice like it would be any better), evening snacks while watching tv with my wife and my concept of portion size was right out to lunch.

So thanks to everyone here who has shared their experiences and helped me to stop procrastinating and get off my butt and actually do something about what was bothering me for sometime.
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Old 06-09-2016, 07:08 PM   #1374
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That's awesome Master 8Ball! 34 pounds is something to be proud of.


I lost over 30 lbs and have kept it off for going on 2 years now, I went from 205 to 170. It took a lot of hard work and discipline but I feel so much better now. Keep it up!
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Old 06-09-2016, 09:37 PM   #1375
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Well, about a year ago, I started jogging 5 days a week. I started with 1 mile a day and now I jog about 5. I ran my first 10k a few months ago.

I also changed the way I eat, not what I eat. I'm a bread junkie and love my carb-ridden foods. I simply cut down the amount I eat and the size of my portions. I've dropped 30 pounds (from 230 to 200) since I started this routine. I'm 40 and feel like I'm back in my 20s.
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Old 06-10-2016, 03:51 PM   #1376
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As a gamer and a generally lazy person I find the following technique (for exercise) works pretty well for me

I tend to play a lot of competitive RTS online (like Starcraft 2), so if I lose a game, then I do 15 pressups. I have a stubborn streak, so I force myself to do it (like punishment for losing the game)

It also gives me a break from the game, and obviously is a bit of exercise

Is it ideal? nope, but its better than doing absolutely nothing

Likewise, I have a small foldup exercise bike in my room. Whenever I watch a TV show for whichever series I am hooked on, e.g. Game of Thrones, I am only allowed to watch it while doing some (light) cycling. I am so engrossed in watching it, I barely notice the exercise part. Again, not the best, but better than nothing
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Old 06-10-2016, 06:55 PM   #1377
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As a gamer and a generally lazy person I find the following technique (for exercise) works pretty well for me

I tend to play a lot of competitive RTS online (like Starcraft 2), so if I lose a game, then I do 15 pressups. I have a stubborn streak, so I force myself to do it (like punishment for losing the game)

It also gives me a break from the game, and obviously is a bit of exercise

Is it ideal? nope, but its better than doing absolutely nothing

Likewise, I have a small foldup exercise bike in my room. Whenever I watch a TV show for whichever series I am hooked on, e.g. Game of Thrones, I am only allowed to watch it while doing some (light) cycling. I am so engrossed in watching it, I barely notice the exercise part. Again, not the best, but better than nothing
what is a pressup?
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Old 06-10-2016, 11:29 PM   #1378
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Quote:
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what is a pressup?
A "pressup" is a reference to an "Earth push" or "pushing the world down", or "up" depending on perspective. For example: Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups he pushes the world down (or "pressdowns" or "pressups").

In short, when you feel the earth moving, it's not an earthquake. It is either Chuck Norris or Fossets doing "pressups".
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Old 06-15-2016, 04:45 PM   #1379
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Finally got back in the gym today after taking the last week off. Hit biceps and back pretty good, should be feeling it in the morning.
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Old 06-15-2016, 05:28 PM   #1380
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Finally got back in the gym today after taking the last week off. Hit biceps and back pretty good, should be feeling it in the morning.
My groin is still bothering me but as I get into a work-out routine I should get used to the aches and pains, still going to go tonight and just try to avoid the legs.
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