Home Video Sales Thread (HMM weekly/DEG quarterly/Nielsen Top 20/etc.)

[Lee A Stewart]

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

The facts of the matter are these:

1. DVD is the most successful consumer electronics product ever. Over 95% of households have a DVD player. If it breaks you can get a new one for about $25.

2. Joe Average covets first price then selection. Much content doesn't make it to BD - like TV shows.

3. DVD is a revolutionary product. BD and UHD-BD are evolutionary products so they would never achieve what DVD has done.

4. UHD-TVs have a penetration rate of about 44%. That means the majority will be HDTVs. Yes - if you want a 50+ inch TV - you have no choice but to get a 4K TV. But many buy 43" TVs and DVD looks fine, especially those with anamorphic transfers.

5. Money is tight right now as you know. So if you want to own your content you still can - buy a DVD. Once your collection gets to a certain size you may watch that movie maybe 2X more (If that with a large collection). So your investment is smaller.

I hate to say it but I was in my local Target store and Walmart store recently and the selection of low-cost DVD players starting at around $25 has greatly increased in selection. With the cheapest Blu-ray player costing around $59. To make matters worse my local Target store had absolutely no native 4K Blu-ray players on the store shelf. Just a choice between two entry level Blu-ray players and a large selection of DVD players. Sure, one can go to the Target website and order a selection of 4K Blu-ray players like the Sony UBP-X800M2, however years ago there was a bigger selection of 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray players and movies in both Target and Walmart. In both the Target store and Walmart store Sony 480i DVD players are still being offered for sale.

My local Walmart had a better selection of 4K Blu-ray players, Blu-ray players, and DVD players when compared to my local Target store. While Walmart only offers the very nice Sony UBP-X800M2 4K Blu-ray player online for around $248, Walmart did have a few native 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray player brands to choose from in the store itself, including the entry level Sony UBP-X700 for $189.00. But Walmart and other stores still have 4K upscaling Blu-ray players on the shelf that do not play native 4K Blu-ray discs which causes consumer confusion.

Many consumers are buying the following low cost $24.97 DVD player that comes with a free HDMI cable and 5 free DVD rentals at REDBOX. The DVD player company has to be losing money on the DVD player to be able to offer $11.25 worth of free REDBOX DVD rentals plus a free $10 HDMI cable with the $24.97 DVD player. But many consumers are buying these under $25 DVD players from Walmart, and similar low cost DVD players from Amazon and other locations since they do not want to spend around $59 on a entry level Blu-ray player. Walmart had a Philips Blu-ray player for around $59, but when people see a $24.97 DVD player with a free $10 HDMI cable and $11.25 worth of free REDBOX DVD movie rentals, most people buy the native 480i DVD player even though they might own a 4K Smart TV.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/onn-HDMI-...2&from=/search

To make matters worse both Sony and Panasonic are offering DVD players in Walmart and other retail stores for around $49.99 each and sometimes between $35-$45 each depending on the model. Sony and Panasonic should have stopped making DVD players 10 years ago. Then when a consumers existing DVD player breaks after 10 to 20 years, they would have gone out and replaced their broken DVD player with a Blu-ray player if the store shelfs only had Blu-ray players on them. That is the biggest problem right now for why the 4K Blu-ray and Blu-ray format are not replacing the DVD format. When peoples DVD players are breaking after 10 to 20 years, they are replacing them with another DVD player for under $25 or under $50 for a high-end DVD player model. Back around Feb 19th 2008 the Blu-ray format won the format war against the HD DVD format, but the Blu-ray format is struggling to win the format war against the 1997 480i DVD format that many consumers still use. Yes, Blu-ray 50GB discs are better than HD DVD 30GB discs, however if the HD DVD format would have won the format war, the DVD companies would have most likely have stopped making DVD players and would have only made HD DVD players in 2015+. Many consumers do not understand that 4K Blu-ray players and Blu-ray players play DVD discs and audio CD’s. If there is going to be a new 8K optical disc format in the year 2026+, then instead of calling the format 8K Blu-ray, maybe the format should be called 8K DVD format, since having the DVD name in a format would be popular.

One reason why the DVD format is so popular with consumers is because the DVD format uses weak encryption technology, which makes it easy for consumers to make DVD copies of movies for around 16 cents each. Where as the 4K Blu-ray format and Blu-ray format use stronger encryption with the AACS BD+ renewable security keys. Therefore, the movie studios should have stopped releasing new releases on the DVD format many years ago. In 2024+ the movie studios should only be supporting 4K Blu-ray, Blu-ray, and various streaming formats (its time for the studios to drop DVD discs from their new release schedule). Consumers that do not want to upgrade their DVD player to a new Blu-ray player for around $59, can instead rent or buy the movie as a streaming option.

[HDTV1080P]

Sony is still selling 4K upscaling Blu-ray players on their website, Walmart, Amazon, and other places. Sony should have years ago stopped making 4K upscaling Blu-ray players, and Sony should have only made regular 1080P Blu-ray players and also native 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray players. The problem with there being 4K upscaling Blu-ray players on the market is that it causes consumer confusion when people do not understand why a 4K Blu-ray disc will not play in a 4K upscaling Blu-ray player.

Back around the year 2016 I mentioned this issue, but for some reason Sony keeps selling these players for around $120 that cannot playback native 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray discs.


https://electronics.sony.com/tv-vide...ray/p/bdps6700

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

I hate to say it but I was in my local Target store and Walmart store recently and the selection of low-cost DVD players starting at around $25 has greatly increased in selection. With the cheapest Blu-ray player costing around $59. To make matters worse my local Target store had absolutely no native 4K Blu-ray players on the store shelf. Just a choice between two entry level Blu-ray players and a large selection of DVD players. Sure, one can go to the Target website and order a selection of 4K Blu-ray players like the Sony UBP-X800M2, however years ago there was a bigger selection of 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray players and movies in both Target and Walmart. In both the Target store and Walmart store Sony 480i DVD players are still being offered for sale.

My local Walmart had a better selection of 4K Blu-ray players, Blu-ray players, and DVD players when compared to my local Target store. While Walmart only offers the very nice Sony UBP-X800M2 4K Blu-ray player online for around $248, Walmart did have a few native 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray player brands to choose from in the store itself, including the entry level Sony UBP-X700 for $189.00. But Walmart and other stores still have 4K upscaling Blu-ray players on the shelf that do not play native 4K Blu-ray discs which causes consumer confusion.

Many consumers are buying the following low cost $24.97 DVD player that comes with a free HDMI cable and 5 free DVD rentals at REDBOX. The DVD player company has to be losing money on the DVD player to be able to offer $11.25 worth of free REDBOX DVD rentals plus a free $10 HDMI cable with the $24.97 DVD player. But many consumers are buying these under $25 DVD players from Walmart, and similar low cost DVD players from Amazon and other locations since they do not want to spend around $59 on a entry level Blu-ray player. Walmart had a Philips Blu-ray player for around $59, but when people see a $24.97 DVD player with a free $10 HDMI cable and $11.25 worth of free REDBOX DVD movie rentals, most people buy the native 480i DVD player even though they might own a 4K Smart TV.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/onn-HDMI-...2&from=/search

To make matters worse both Sony and Panasonic are offering DVD players in Walmart and other retail stores for around $49.99 each and sometimes between $35-$45 each depending on the model. Sony and Panasonic should have stopped making DVD players 10 years ago. Then when a consumers existing DVD player breaks after 10 to 20 years, they would have gone out and replaced their broken DVD player with a Blu-ray player if the store shelfs only had Blu-ray players on them. That is the biggest problem right now for why the 4K Blu-ray and Blu-ray format are not replacing the DVD format. When peoples DVD players are breaking after 10 to 20 years, they are replacing them with another DVD player for under $25 or under $50 for a high-end DVD player model. Back around Feb 19th 2008 the Blu-ray format won the format war against the HD DVD format, but the Blu-ray format is struggling to win the format war against the 1997 480i DVD format that many consumers still use. Yes, Blu-ray 50GB discs are better than HD DVD 30GB discs, however if the HD DVD format would have won the format war, the DVD companies would have most likely have stopped making DVD players and would have only made HD DVD players in 2015+. Many consumers do not understand that 4K Blu-ray players and Blu-ray players play DVD discs and audio CD’s. If there is going to be a new 8K optical disc format in the year 2026+, then instead of calling the format 8K Blu-ray, maybe the format should be called 8K DVD format, since having the DVD name in a format would be popular.

One reason why the DVD format is so popular with consumers is because the DVD format uses weak encryption technology, which makes it easy for consumers to make DVD copies of movies for around 16 cents each. Where as the 4K Blu-ray format and Blu-ray format use stronger encryption with the AACS BD+ renewable security keys. Therefore, the movie studios should have stopped releasing new releases on the DVD format many years ago. In 2024+ the movie studios should only be supporting 4K Blu-ray, Blu-ray, and various streaming formats (its time for the studios to drop DVD discs from their new release schedule). Consumers that do not want to upgrade their DVD player to a new Blu-ray player for around $59, can instead rent or buy the movie as a streaming option.

The people that shop in those stores are not the same folk that value quality. It’s easier just to order a Blu or 4K player online.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

The people that shop in those stores are not the same folk that value quality. It’s easier just to order a Blu or 4K player online.

In the US Amazon delivery vans can been seen everywhere. B&M store closings can be seen everywhere.

I have been a mail order type for a very long time mainly because most of the stuff I wanted was not available locally. As to home theater most equipment was purchased online.

When I started with LaserDisc there was Video Concepts but the local store closed so I started ordering most titles from The Lasers Edge. At Amazon Top Gun: Maverick is not stuck on some shelf with DVD's like Walmart does. Best Buy and Target is not much better at grouping and displaying titles for easy selection.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

[Lee A Stewart]

[unberechenbar]

What a jump for UHD!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by unberechenbar

What a jump for UHD!

It’s normal when a big blockbuster hits (Ant Man in this case)

Should be decent next week with Creed 3 and Shazam.

[avs commenter]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Curious to what the data for the % drop from 4-5 years ago to now

[cgpublic]

Originally Posted by avs commenter

Curious to what the data for the % drop from 4-5 years ago to now

Five years ago it wasn’t uncommon to have a week in excess of $100M+, with Blu/UHD in excess of $50M+.

In that context, mass market sales have declined in excess of approximately 75% to 85%.

Go back another five years, and the decline for physical media overall is staggering.

[Vilya]

In 2017, The Digital Entertainment Group stated that physical media sales totaled (for North America) $4.71637 billion dollars for the year.

In 2022, that figure was $1.58287 billion dollars.

$1.58287 billion dollars is a decrease of 66.44% from $4.71637 billion dollars.





https://www.degonline.org/industry-data/

[Vilya]

For a look at global sales see Lee's post here:

[Show spoiler]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Remember to add the "U.S. Physical" and the "International Physical" together if you want to get a global perspective. Data for 2022 has not been posted yet as far as I can tell.

One quick summary is that globally physical media sales for 2021 are down 56.08% compared to 2017.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

In 2017, The Digital Entertainment Group stated that physical media sales totaled (for North America) $4.71637 billion dollars for the year.

In 2022, that figure was $1.58287 billion dollars.

$1.58287 billion dollars is a decrease of 66.44% from $4.71637 billion dollars.

You should not confuse posters with facts.

Still waiting on the list of titles from the experts that show titles that should be selling in the numbers of yesteryear.

Now that streaming is starting to saturate wonder of the disc naysayers will start to learn the concept.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

You should not confuse posters with facts.

I'm just sharing what the actual data shows for those that care about such things.

I don't have the energy to debate what it foretells for the future of physical media. I'm too busy trying to foretell my future.

[avs commenter]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

You should not confuse posters with facts.

Still waiting on the list of titles from the experts that show titles that should be selling in the numbers of yesteryear.

Now that streaming is starting to saturate wonder of the disc naysayers will start to learn the concept.

You do realize you can have a weekly or even monthly drop of 75-85% while still having a yearly drop of 66% right?

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by avs commenter

You do realize you can have a weekly or even monthly drop of 75-85% while still having a yearly drop of 66% right?

But that was not the subject, the implication was a yearly drop 75-85%.

[avs commenter]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

But that was not the subject, the implication was a yearly drop 75-85%.

I only see the word week so that’s how I interpreted. And it was the subject as my question was in regards to the weekly numbers from 5/13

[cgpublic]

If we're speaking of this year, not 2022, and the related trend for physical media, we're looking at approximately $1B, less than half of that number specific to Blu/UHD.

So, if we're speaking of YTD sales for 2017 in comparison to the anticipated YTD numbers for 2023, yeah, that's about 75% to 85%.

I didn't look up any charts or make specific calculations, but that's about the gist of it.

Once again, mass market physical media is nearing the end of its lifecycle. A micro market, much like vinyl, will remain and by all accounts remain until something new addresses quality and ownership considerations, which may never happen.

Why worry?

You do have to consider the fact that the decline in physical media sales has an impact beyond a loss of revenue, but the loss of the ecosystem, e.g., only one remaining disc replication plant left in North America, only two remaining global manufacturers for Blu-ray Disc drives, etc. Once consoles phase out disc drives and major studios stop releasing titles themselves and license to others for physical, or not at all, then everyone will get the message.

All of the above, of course, assumes what one wants to watch is available on physical media, which in many cases today, even weeks or months later post-streaming or digital availability, is not.

So, there's that.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart