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Old 11-17-2020, 09:36 PM   #27701
Vilya Vilya is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post
I grabbed Dark Fate 4K locally , looking what else is good. They released The Croods 4K (2013) today I grabbed for $20 also. Per samlop10 post
Bitrates don't matter, remember?

So says that guy who said that they do.
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Old 11-17-2020, 09:58 PM   #27702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilya View Post
Bitrates don't matter, remember?
Hmm something you didn't have in your collection.
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Old 11-17-2020, 10:14 PM   #27703
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Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post
Hmm something you didn't have in your collection.
I'm waiting for your review.

I own The Croods in scintillating 3 delicious D.
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Old 11-17-2020, 11:40 PM   #27704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilya View Post
Great score! Congratulations! Which titles did you grab?

*Inhales

1917
Venom
John Wick
John Wick 2
John Wick 3
Shazam
Black Hawk Down
Alita
Spiderman: Far From Home
Batman Begins
The Dark Knight
The Dark Knight Rises
A Quiet Place
The Invisible Man

*Exhales

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Old 11-18-2020, 12:53 AM   #27705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheez avenger View Post
*Inhales

1917
Venom
John Wick
John Wick 2
John Wick 3
Shazam
Black Hawk Down
Alita
Spiderman: Far From Home
Batman Begins
The Dark Knight
The Dark Knight Rises
A Quiet Place
The Invisible Man

*Exhales

That is a great haul! I own and enjoyed each title.
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Old 11-18-2020, 04:45 AM   #27706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheez avenger View Post
*Inhales

[Show spoiler]1917
Venom
John Wick
John Wick 2
John Wick 3
Shazam
Black Hawk Down
Alita
Spiderman: Far From Home
Batman Begins
The Dark Knight
The Dark Knight Rises
A Quiet Place
The Invisible Man


*Exhales

Nice selection; I own all of these movies, but only 9 of them on 4K disc.
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Old 11-18-2020, 06:03 AM   #27707
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Originally Posted by Vilya View Post
Nice selection; I own all of these movies, but only 9 of them on 4K disc.
I have 11 in 4K.

I sampled multiple time points to judge the digital animation quality with The Croods 4K, remember the 4K review of 2013 How to train a dragon, where going to 4K HDR10 further exemplified this stunningly beautiful animation style, its kinda the same. For me I like phenomenal animation. Be it Despicable Me, Rango as other examples.
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Old 11-18-2020, 02:39 PM   #27708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilya View Post
Bitrates don't matter, remember?

So says that guy who said that they do.
It does matter but not once it reaches the diminishing returns territory.

I can bet an animated film at 20 Mbps and 90 Mbps is going to look pretty much identical on screens <= 80 inches.
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Old 11-18-2020, 03:08 PM   #27709
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Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post
It does matter but not once it reaches the diminishing returns territory.

I can bet an animated film at 20 Mbps and 90 Mbps is going to look pretty much identical on screens <= 80 inches.
My returns must not have diminished yet then as my main TV is 85".

I think that many of us can still see differences between a 20 Mbps bitrate and a 90 Mbps bitrate even on a more conventional sized display.

If you're happy with what you see, then you're happy and in the final analysis that is all that will matter.
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Old 11-18-2020, 03:16 PM   #27710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post
It does matter but not once it reaches the diminishing returns territory.

I can bet an animated film at 20 Mbps and 90 Mbps is going to look pretty much identical on screens <= 80 inches.
I bet you are wrong.
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Old 11-18-2020, 03:26 PM   #27711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilya View Post
My returns must not have diminished yet then as my main TV is 85".

I think that many of us can still see differences between a 20 Mbps bitrate and a 90 Mbps bitrate even on a more conventional sized display.

If you're happy with what you see, then you're happy and in the final analysis that is all that will matter.
I am not seeing that much of a difference of my Panny 65 inch OLED even from a distance of 3 ft but I don't pixel peep as there are so many other things in my life to worry about.

Sound wise, completely agree. It's a no contest.

Btw, I still have 400+ UHD discs in my shelf !!
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Old 11-18-2020, 03:40 PM   #27712
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Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post
I am not seeing that much of a difference of my Panny 65 inch OLED even from a distance of 3 ft but I don't pixel peep as there are so many other things in my life to worry about.

Sound wise, completely agree. It's a no contest.

Btw, I still have 400+ UHD discs in my shelf !!
Audio is a sore subject with me due to the death of my AVR, but I certainly agree that audio on our discs is plainly superior to what we get with streamed content.

I watch my 85" TV at a distance of 9.5' and I never approach my screen to look for flaws. I see no need to look for trouble, but the artifacts associated with low bitrates are obvious, anyways. I notice them even on my 60" TV in my ooffice (office sounds too productive and serious, so mine is an ooffice ).

Congrats on that big UHD disc collection! You should list your titles with the collection tools of this website, so that my jealously can be specific instead of generalized.

Last edited by Vilya; 11-18-2020 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 11-18-2020, 04:00 PM   #27713
lgans316 lgans316 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilya View Post
Audio is a sore subject with me due to the death of my AVR, but I certainly agree that audio on our discs is plainly superior to what we get with streamed content.

I watch my 85" TV at a distance of 9.5' and I never approach my screen to look for flaws. I see no need to look for trouble, but the artifacts associated with low bitrates are obvious, anyways. I notice them even on my 60" TV in my ooffice (office sounds too productive and serious, so mine is an ooffice ).

Congrats on that big UHD disc collection! You should list your titles with the collection tools of this website, so that my jealously can be specific instead of generalized.
Low bit rates = its subjective. Define low? If you see Total Recall 4K disc review, it says the bit rate drops to 2 Mbps on a particular scene resulting in macroblocking. Now that's super low. Apparently the DV FEL layer magically (6-7 Mbps) comes to the rescue and fixes it.

Streaming has come a long way. I was exactly like some of you in this thread in full denial of digital. But trying iTunes and MoviesAnywhere has invalidated my prejudice.

Here is my compilation of bit rates of many films on streaming platforms:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

One thing I like about these platforms is the bit rates doesn't go below a certain number say 10 Mbps, so you barely see blocking and other basic artifacts. It comes as some sort of minimum guarantee.

I do remember seeing some blocking on Star Wars Rise of the Skywalker on D+ but not on iTunes/MA.

Avengers Endgame - 4K disc AVBR is 36 Mbps. Streaming is 25 Mbps. Not that far.

Now, I enjoy a mix of both digital and physical depending upon my mood and convenience. Most of the time, its the latter as I am in my 40s with not much of spare time and family constantly pressurising me to ditch the discs
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Old 11-18-2020, 04:12 PM   #27714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post
Low bit rates = its subjective. Define low? If you see Total Recall 4K disc review, it says the bit rate drops to 2 Mbps on a particular scene resulting in macroblocking. Now that's super low. Apparently the DV FEL layer magically (6-7 Mbps) comes to the rescue and fixes it.

Streaming has come a long way. I was exactly like some of you in this thread in full denial of digital. But trying iTunes and MoviesAnywhere has invalidated my prejudice.

Here is my compilation of bit rates of many films on streaming platforms:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

One thing I like about these platforms is the bit rates doesn't go below a certain number say 10 Mbps, so you barely see blocking and other basic artifacts. It comes as some sort of minimum guarantee.

I do remember seeing some blocking on Star Wars Rise of the Skywalker on D+ but not on iTunes/MA.

Avengers Endgame - 4K disc AVBR is 36 Mbps. Streaming is 25 Mbps. Not that far.

Now, I enjoy a mix of both digital and physical depending upon my mood and convenience. Most of the time, its the latter as I am in my 40s with not much of spare time and family constantly pressurising me to ditch the discs
I was in the same boat as you before I discovered Plex in April this year. The combination of streaming convenience and same quality as on-disc can't be beaten. It is a big investment in terms of equipment & time. Since then, I have stopped buying digitals and bought hundreds more 4K and HD discs. I still redeem the digital codes that comes with the discs in hope that some days I will be back traveling for work again.
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Old 11-18-2020, 04:14 PM   #27715
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All I care about is whether I can see the artifacts on my screen easily (ie: without the need to be analytical). Thus far, nearly all streaming options I have at my disposal (Netflix, Amazon Prime Video, Disney+) are very distractingly noticeable in the artifacts department (especially colour banding) even on my calibrated 65” OLED viewed from 12ft away.

I still watch some streaming contents though, especially when it comes to streaming exclusives (what choice do I have?) or movies that I don’t really care about (just playing in the background while I’m writing my AV review articles, etc).

I don’t care whether it’s 2 mbps or 100 mbps. If I can very easily detect the artifacts, it’s just not good enough.
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Old 11-18-2020, 04:15 PM   #27716
Vilya Vilya is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post
Low bit rates = its subjective.
[Show spoiler]Define low? If you see Total Recall 4K disc review, it says the bit rate drops to 2 Mbps on a particular scene resulting in macroblocking. Now that's super low. Apparently the DV FEL layer magically (6-7 Mbps) comes to the rescue and fixes it.

Streaming has come a long way. I was exactly like some of you in this thread in full denial of digital. But trying iTunes and MoviesAnywhere has invalidated my prejudice.

Here is my compilation of bit rates of many films on streaming platforms:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

One thing I like about these platforms is the bit rates doesn't go below a certain number say 10 Mbps, so you barely see blocking and other basic artifacts. It comes as some sort of minimum guarantee.

I do remember seeing some blocking on Star Wars Rise of the Skywalker on D+ but not on iTunes/MA.

Avengers Endgame - 4K disc AVBR is 36 Mbps. Streaming is 25 Mbps. Not that far.

Now, I enjoy a mix of both digital and physical depending upon my mood and convenience. Most of the time, its the latter as I am in my 40s with not much of spare time and family constantly pressurising me to ditch the discs
There is nothing subjective about seeing compression artifacts. They are either visible to you or they are not. How much they bother us is the only subjective part.

I consider an average bitrate of 20-25 Mbps to still be too low for 4K content. The best 4K streaming services peak near 30 Mbps. At these levels, even my old eyes can see artifacts, especially in more demanding scenes. I am not saying that 4K streams at this bitrate level look terrible, if I felt that way I would not even bother watching them, but their limitations are plainly noticeable.

As you have said the audio difference is really no contest and the audio is every bit as important, so the net result is that streaming provides a "less than" overall experience. I use streaming, and I have a digital collection, but it is never my preferred choice.

Last edited by Vilya; 11-18-2020 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 11-18-2020, 04:27 PM   #27717
Vilya Vilya is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angry Virginian View Post
I was in the same boat as you before I discovered Plex in April this year. The combination of streaming convenience and same quality as on-disc can't be beaten. It is a big investment in terms of equipment & time. Since then, I have stopped buying digitals and bought hundreds more 4K and HD discs. I still redeem the digital codes that comes with the discs in hope that some days I will be back traveling for work again.
The time part is what keeps me from trying this the most; I shudder to think how long it would take to make 1:1 rips of my collection as it stands now.
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Old 11-18-2020, 04:33 PM   #27718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilya View Post
There is nothing subjective about seeing compression artifacts. They are either visible to you or they are not. How much they bother us is the only subjective part.

I consider an average bitrate of 20-25 Mbps to still be too low for 4K content. The best 4K streaming services peak near 30 Mbps. At these levels, even my old eyes can see artifacts, especially in more demanding scenes. I am not saying that 4K streams at this bitrate level look terrible, if I felt that way I would not even bother watching them, but their limitations are plainly noticeable.

As you have said the audio difference is really no contest and the audio is every bit as important, so the net result is that streaming provides a "less than" overall experience. I use streaming, and I have a digital collection, but it is never my preferred choice.
Itís not suitable for HT quality lovers, letís put it that way.
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Old 11-18-2020, 04:49 PM   #27719
Angry Virginian Angry Virginian is offline
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Originally Posted by Vilya View Post
The time part is what keeps me from trying this the most; I shudder to think how long it would take to make 1:1 rips of my collection as it stands now.
It is all worth it at the end (at least for me). I am finding that I use my collection much more often than I did before the pandemic. Too lazy to find & change discs, having to wait for the disc to load, annoyance of having to skip through the BS previews, etc. Plus, the superior PQ & AQ contained in 4K discs cannot be beaten in my mid-grade HT system - LG C9 65", 5.1.2 with Ascends Sierra 2EX LCR, Axiom M3 surrounds & overheads, and the old SVS PC+ 16-46. I have 535 titles in my Plex collection now with about 350 of those being 4K titles. Having a desk job also helps as each 4K disc takes about an hour to rip.
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Old 11-18-2020, 05:14 PM   #27720
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post
I can bet an animated film at 20 Mbps and 90 Mbps is going to look pretty much identical on screens <= 80 inches.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post
I am not seeing that much of a difference of my Panny 65 inch OLED even from a distance of 3 ft but I don't pixel peep as there are so many other things in my life to worry about.

Btw, I still have 400+ UHD discs in my shelf !!
With all those statements why do you buy UHD BD disks? Just wondering, it can’t because of just the audio.

It doesn’t matter if it’s animation or live acting compression artifacts are still visible. This from someone that compares both all the time. No you don’t need to look at a display 3 feet away either, you actually see them from a reasonable distance..

Last edited by JohnAV; 11-18-2020 at 05:19 PM.
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