Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[PenguinInfinity]

The only software I can think of that's available from major retailers is Nero Burning Rom and that doesn't break copy-protection but works in conjunction with other software that does. It must not be that...

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Wendell it really bothers you that I say my Streaming Quality is Fantastic even though I say IMO. I'm not even comparing it to your High End Dedicated Projector HT. I paid for the Best Buy Techs to do their Calibration, they asked me some questions and put up some stations and Movie Discs. Sony has a very good bright picture, and I feel I don't have to tweak it in anyway....I'm very Satisfied with the Picture Quality!

He only asked what your TV settings are and you steadfastly refuse to answer him. If you would just answer the actual question that was put to you it would make conversing with you much less, shall we say, bothersome?

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by CV19

I recently went through some of my discs burnt back in 2004 when I bought my first Sony DVD recorder, and the discs I used were mostly Taiyo Yuden, Verbatim and Sony's. I have to say I haven't come across one yet that failed, and believe me, I have several hundreds of them. Of course, there are lots of them I haven't got round to watching yet, so time will tell.

[Show spoiler]Interestingly some years ago on an AV forum I used to look into now and again, there was a discussion on blank discs which came to the conclusion that Taiyo Yuden and Verbatim were the two top brands. However, they strongly advised to look out for Verbatim's that were made in either Japan or Taiwan. Verbatim also had production plants in China and India, and apparently those discs were to be avoided at all costs. Taiyo Yuden's were all made in Japan at the time.

Edit: After reading my post again, I should point out when I mentioned about having several hundreds of blank discs, these are all discs burnt between the years 2004 and about 2012. However my earliest discs from 2004 have so far all played perfectly.

I started making back-ups of laserdiscs and DVDs at about the same time. All of my burned discs from that period still work except for the ones that were burned onto Philips blank media. I still periodically re-burn discs just in case.

I have been using Verbatim almost exclusively for several years now and I have had no failures with their blank media. I have never paid any attention to where they were made, but I will going forward.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Wendell it really bothers you that I say my Streaming Quality is Fantastic even though I say IMO. I'm not even comparing it to your High End Dedicated Projector HT. I paid for the Best Buy Techs to do their Calibration, they asked me some questions and put up some stations and Movie Discs. Sony has a very good bright picture, and I feel I don't have to tweak it in anyway....I'm very Satisfied with the Picture Quality!

No, you are just deluding yourself. You apparently believe streaming looks great because of what you see on your TV. The only way to see some video aberrations is to have a TV or projector be as close as possible to a professional display monitor. I pointed this out to you several years ago. Since that time FilmMaker Mode has been introduced with the intent to make it much easier to make your TV be more like a monitor. Brian just posted JVC will release a firmware update that will have FilmMaker Mode for some of their projectors. Sony should do the same for their TV’s and projectors.

How you chose to view content is your business but to come to this site and proclaim something looks great will get you or anyone called out by others that truly knows the difference. There is a thread on this site called “What are your best looking UHD Blu-rays?” here. If you see the demo material on the Spears and Munsil UHD HDR Benchmark test disc on your TV with all the auto stuff turned off then you should realize just how spectacular an image could be.

[Wendell R. Breland]

For anyone that has considered the purchase of a Apple TV 4K, Amazon has the 64GB version for $140 (here) and the 32GB for $120. Paid $180 for my 64GB version in July 2021.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

No one but myself has access to my back-ups the same as with my discs. How do you figure otherwise?

if you keep both no, but if you sell the disk that is a different story, that is where we are no longer talking back-up but a second copy one that was kept and one that was sold, and you can definitely watch the copy while the person that bought the disk is watching the originally disk.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

if you keep both no, but if you sell the disk that is a different story, that is where we are no longer talking back-up but a second copy one that was kept and one that was sold, and you can definitely watch the copy while the person that bought the disk is watching the originally disk.

I don't sell my discs, but I have no problem with those that do. I may have said that already, though.

[Wendell R. Breland]

This is to put everyone on notice, IF I should ever purchase anything from you then you will convey any and all license, documents, hardware, manuals to my ownership. If I should purchase a riding mower from you then forget about thinking you can still use it mow your lawn.

[Show spoiler]own·er·ship

/ˈōnərˌSHip/
noun

the act, state, or right of possessing something.

"the ownership of land"

synonyms: possession, right of possession, holding, freehold, proprietorship, proprietary rights, title

Wonder how many land owners there are that may not know they do not own that crude oil under their property because someone else may own the mineral rights.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Laws only prohibit specified actions and they ascribe specific penalties for committing those actions. That which is not explicitly prohibited has always been presumed to be legal.

absolutely true except for one huge issue
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/106

Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following:
(1)to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords;
....

that is why 109 (aka first sales doctrine) even needs to exist in the first place. You don't need a law that says I can sell the tomatoes I grow in my garden or the table I bought at the store. You do need 109 to specify I am allowed to sell the BD I bought and did not back up because107 took that right away from everyone except the copy right holder.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

This is to put everyone on notice, IF I should ever purchase anything from you then you will convey any and all license, documents, hardware, manuals to my ownership. If I should purchase a riding mower from you then forget about thinking you can still use it mow your lawn.

[Show spoiler]own·er·ship


/ˈōnərˌSHip/
noun

the act, state, or right of possessing something.

"the ownership of land"



synonyms: possession, right of possession, holding, freehold, proprietorship, proprietary rights, title

Wonder how many land owners there are that may not know they do not own that crude oil under their property because someone else may own the mineral rights.

What if I 3D printed a back-up of the riding mower before selling you the original?

The license is not ours to transfer; it belongs to the copyright holder. It is granted to us by the act of purchasing and nothing revokes that license once granted.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

absolutely true except for one huge issue
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/106



that is why 109 (aka first sales doctrine) even needs to exist in the first place. You don't need a law that says I can sell the tomatoes I grow in my garden or the table I bought at the store. You do need 109 to specify I am allowed to sell the BD I bought and did not back up because107 took that right away from everyone except the copy right holder.

You are allowed to sell the BD no matter what you did with it previously.

Making a back-up in no way infringes upon your rights under the First Sales Doctrine.

If making the back-up was illegal, that's another matter entirely and it has nothing to do with your rights under the First Sales Doctrine.

Your link makes it look like any average Joe who has ever ripped anything for any reason can look forward to being charged with copyright violations. Better build more prisons.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I own several such types of software all legally purchased from established and well known vendors right here in the U.S. Forum rules prohibit my being more specific as this type of software can be abused.

irrelevant, for example people can buy cars easily that does not give them the right to use it to plough into people or other similarly destructive choice.

that is exactly what Studios vs Sony said when when the studios brought them in front of the court. A beta machine could be used illigaly (I.e. make one or more pira5ted copies) but it can also be used for time shifting and time shifting does not contravene the law.

DMCA does not state the copyright owner is not allowed to brake/circumvent encryption if he needs to (was than we would not have home media), it states everyone else is not allowed to do it.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

irrelevant, for example people can buy cars easily that does not give them the right to use it to plough into people or other similarly destructive choice.

that is exactly what Studios vs Sony said when when the studios brought them in front of the court. A beta machine could be used illigaly (I.e. make one or more pira5ted copies) but it can also be used for time shifting and time shifting does not contravene the law.

DMCA does not state the copyright owner is not allowed to brake/circumvent encryption if he needs to (was than we would not have home media), it states everyone else is not allowed to do it.

Ripping software is legal. Software for ripping discs is what allows people to have their own movie servers. Those that buy and use this software to create their servers are not criminals no matter how much some people may want to portray them as such.

No one has said that the copyright owner is restricted in any way; I have no idea why you are stating the obvious in your last paragraph.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I don't sell my discs, but I have no problem with those that do. I may have said that already, though.

no one said you should have a problem with them, I don't either. when I was in high school, I had a bunch of good friends, some of which I am still in touch with, that would rent VHS tapes and make copies for the group. I never joined into it but that did not stop them from being my friends. I also don't judge people that speed but there is a term for breaking that law, I don't judge people that jay walk but there is a term for that as well and there is a term for people that take one copy and turn it into more than one (even if it is 0only two) and that is piracy.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

no one said you should have a problem with them, I don't either. when I was in high school, I had a bunch of good friends, some of which I am still in touch with, that would rent VHS tapes and make copies for the group. I never joined into it but that did not stop them from being my friends. I also don't judge people that speed but there is a term for breaking that law, I don't judge people that jay walk but there is a term for that as well and there is a term for people that take one copy and turn it into more than one (even if it is 0only two) and that is piracy.

Making a copy, or even copies, of something that you legally bought for your own personal use is NOT piracy.

Piracy is basically selling and profiting from products (i.e. bootlegs) that you do not have the right to make and sell. We are not profiting from our personal use back-ups. We are not buying, or selling, bootleg discs at a flea market. We are just protecting what we legally bought.

I have backed up the rarest of my laserdiscs, which have no DRM so the DMCA can suck it. The ability to play these laserdiscs is getting harder to do all the time as the players are all very old now. With some of the rarest of these laserdiscs, I have backed them up twice.

If it makes you feel any better, I still have the laserdiscs that I made back-ups from. I even still have a working player, but for how much longer is anyone's guess. I will not allow my laserdisc collection to become unplayable, so I backed them up. I apologize to no one for doing it.

[russweiss1]

It appears that no one will convince the other of their point of view. I will commend the fact that this back and forth hasn't broken down into petty name calling and insults.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by russweiss1

It appears that no one will convince the other of their point of view. I will commend the fact that this back and forth hasn't broken down into petty name calling and insults.

I luvs everybody here. No one has to agree with me to participate in a

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by russweiss1

I will commend the fact that this back and forth hasn't broken down into petty name calling and insults.

Because most involved in this truly are physical media supporters, some in a really big way.

The problem as I see it, no case law for reference as to an individual owning a backup or copy. The reason would appear the content owners consider it illegal to make a copy. Kaleidescape was sued for copying disc but they prevailed in court only to be overturned later by the courts.

When Zappiti opened a USA site they offered their NAS server for sale. Later they removed that device from the USA site. Dollar against a doughnut says they received a cease and desist order. I contacted the Canadian importer/dealer for Zappiti and he told me he would not ship the NAS to the US.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I luvs everybody here. No one has to agree with me to participate in a

Ten years I have known you lot (well known as in online buddies)

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

I contacted the Canadian importer/dealer for Zappiti and he told me he would not ship the NAS to the US.

Sounds like reason enough for a road trip.