Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

How could anyone prove the difference between a copy of a rented disc and a copy of a purchased disc?

It's called a receipt. I have most of mine dating back to 2004. Even if I no longer had the disc, I can prove that I bought it.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Ender14

I do have the CD's. I ripped them so I could box up my CD's and store them. But regardless you are stating the act itself is illegal. If so, why is there legal software sold to consumers that perform those very tasks? Your argument is faulty.

Ripping CDs is legal. It doesn't break any copy-protection. I have never argued that ripping CDs is illegal.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Vilya

It's called a receipt. I have most of mine dating back to 2004.

So you're basically saying that it's a crime to throw out your receipts.

Originally Posted by Vilya

Even if I no longer had the disc, I can prove that I bought it.

But even if you never owned the disc, how could anyone prove that?

[Ender14]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Ripping CDs is legal. It doesn't break any copy-protection. I have never argued that ripping CDs is illegal.

The RIAA would disagree with you:

Beyond that, there’s no legal “right” to copy the copyrighted music on a CD onto a CD-R. However, burning a copy of CD onto a CD-R, or transferring a copy onto your computer hard drive or your portable music player, won’t usually raise concerns so long as:

-The copy is made from an authorized original CD that you legitimately own
-The copy is just for your personal use. It’s not a personal use – in fact, it’s illegal – to give away the copy or lend it to others for copying.
-The owners of copyrighted music have the right to use protection technology to allow or prevent copying.

Remember, it’s never okay to sell or make commercial use of a copy that you make.

https://www.riaa.com/resources-learning/about-piracy/

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

So you're basically saying that it's a crime to throw out your receipts.

But even if you never owned the disc, how could anyone prove that?

I said no such thing.

I said that I had most of my receipts dating back to 2004. I could show them if I ever wanted to, but I am under no obligation to keep them. Or to show them.

I can't prove that I never owned most somethings. You can't prove that you never owned a pink sequined mini-skirt. I can't prove that I never owned an Alphorn.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I said that I had most of my receipts dating back to 2004. I could show them if I ever wanted to, but I am under no obligation to keep them. Or to show them

Bill buys a disc creates a copy and then sells the disc. He keeps his receipt from the purchase.
Frank buys a disc creates a copy and then sells the disc. He does not keep the receipt from the purchase.
Steven downloads a rip from a someone else's disc over the internet.

Police search the houses of all 3 people and discover the copies. According to you Bill and Frank are both law abiding and Steven is not. But under the law only Bill can prove that he is law abiding so both Frank and Steven would be charged with possessing an illegal copy.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Ripping CDs is legal. It doesn't break any copy-protection. I have never argued that ripping CDs is illegal.

It still potentially violates copyright law. Most music is copyrighted.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Ender14

The RIAA would disagree with you

It doesn't sound like they would:

However, burning a copy of CD onto a CD-R, or transferring a copy onto your computer hard drive or your portable music player, won’t usually raise concerns so long as:

-The copy is made from an authorized original CD that you legitimately own
-The copy is just for your personal use.

The RIAA stated (in your quote) that they have no problem with people making copies of the CDs they own for personal use. And neither do I.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

But under the law only Bill can prove that he is law abiding so both Frank and Steven would be charged with possessing an illegal copy.

None of these people have to prove anything. The burden of proof lies entirely with the prosecutor or plaintiff. That's how the presumption of innocence works.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Vilya

None of these people have to prove anything. The burden of proof lies entirely with the prosecutor or plaintiff. That's how the presumption of innocence works.

Which brings me back to my previous point:

If copies of discs you no longer owned were legal then there would be no such thing as illegal copies because it would be impossible to prove that any copy was ever made illegally.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Ender14

The RIAA would disagree with you:



https://www.riaa.com/resources-learning/about-piracy/

Get out of the quicksand while you can! Save yourself!

[bhampton]

I hope I can get Crawl on UHD BD tomorrow.

Today I picked up Rise of Gru and Days of Thunder.

I've gone back to watching discs directly. I also can't stop buying them so I need to take over another wall for shelves.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Which brings me back to my previous point:

If copies of discs you no longer owned were legal then there would be no such thing as illegal copies because it would be impossible to prove that any copy was ever made illegally.

Not impossible, just difficult.

That's why there is essentially no enforcement regarding illegal copies and why studios so very badly want to go entirely with digital distribution.

Even with digital distribution, the studio's property still winds up on FTP sites thanks, in part, to another legal type of software: streaming capture software. It's a game of whack-a-mole at best.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Not impossible, just difficult.

It's impossible for anything ever released on disc. All someone would have to say is "I used to own that on disc but I don't keep my receipts". It would be impossible to ever disprove that statement.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

It's impossible for anything ever released on disc. All someone would have to say is "I used to own that on disc but I don't keep my receipts". It would be impossible to ever disprove that statement.

The enforcement emphasis is on people trafficking in bootlegs and the money trail that goes with it.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Vilya

The enforcement emphasis is on people trafficking in bootlegs and the money trail that goes with it.

Bootlegs are an extremely tiny part of the piracy problem. Most people download free copies, they don't buy bootlegs.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by bhampton

I hope I can get Crawl on UHD BD tomorrow.

Today I picked up Rise of Gru and Days of Thunder.

I've gone back to watching discs directly. I also can't stop buying them so I need to take over another wall for shelves.

I have 16 disc titles arriving this week. I know their allure well.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Bootlegs are an extremely tiny part of the piracy problem. Most people download free copies, they don't buy bootlegs.

I use "bootleg" to encompass all illegally made, sold, and/or acquired IP.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I use "bootleg" to encompass all illegally made, sold, and/or acquired IP.

But a huge amount of "bootlegs" don't have any money trail at all because there is no profits being made. Is there no piracy occurring if people are freely sharing illegal copies?

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

But a huge amount of "bootlegs" don't have any money trail at all because there is no profits being made. Is there no piracy occurring if people are freely sharing illegal copies?

Much of the enforcement against illegal distribution is focused upon shutting down the FTP sites that host the illegal content and sometimes prosecuting/suing the owner of the FTP site. Sometimes they have even been able to identify those who are uploading the illegal files and they go after them, too.