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Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Audio > Speakers


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Old 07-02-2008, 05:24 AM   #1
allstar780 allstar780 is offline
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Default To Bi-Amp or not to Bi-Amp?

Alright so I have the speaker wire and banana plugs to bi-amp my RF-35s, but in the owners manual for the speaker it actually says bi-amping is not recommended as it offers little improvement... I was told bi-amping would give my speakers more power, which to me is an improvement right there... then when I run the audyssey setup again with the speakers bi-amped and the receiver in bi-amp mode it should set the sound levels properly... so I ask you Blu-Bloods... to bi-amp, or not to bi-amp?
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Old 07-02-2008, 05:56 AM   #2
sokrman14 sokrman14 is offline
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As long as it doesn't say it will damage your speakers, then I say go for it. I will be bi-amping my speakers soon as well. More power just means more headroom for your speakers, mainly during music playback for those peaks. If you have the money and equipment to do it, then do it, but don't spend tons of extra money to do it.
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Old 07-02-2008, 06:20 AM   #3
allstar780 allstar780 is offline
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well i bought extra speaker wire so I would have room to move the fronts around a bit, experiment with it... and now i have half of it left... and i bought extra banana plugs just in case... so yeah its not any extra money really...
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Old 07-02-2008, 09:55 AM   #4
krazeyeyez krazeyeyez is offline
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post your results/impressions if you end up doing this. curious to know if it has any effect.
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Old 07-02-2008, 09:56 AM   #5
musicman1999 musicman1999 is offline
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I think you mean bi-wire not bi-amp. Bi-amp requires more than extra wire, it needs an extra amp channel for every speaker. Bi-wire really does not give you extra power, just splits what you have and for most basic set ups is not worth it.

bill
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Old 07-02-2008, 10:04 AM   #6
krazeyeyez krazeyeyez is offline
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musicman, if your receiver has a second zone option and your speakers are capable wouldn't this allow as the OP said more control? i have read also on the internet it yields weak results, and when i bought my set-up the salesman just briefly mentioned the capability, so i didn't think much of it. i would think it would have some effect or why else would there even be an option.
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Old 07-02-2008, 11:15 AM   #7
haste haste is offline
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depends on the setup...

i have my front speakers bi-amped. the receiver i have uses the extra 2 channels for a 7.1 setup for the bi-amping ( i have a 5.1 setup ). i havent tried it without it, but it sounds great to me.

i have a set of polk monitor 50s hooked up to an Onkyo tx-sr605
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:14 PM   #8
Beta Man Beta Man is offline
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waste of time for that set-up in my opinion.

true "Bi-Amping" with quality equipment will provide marginal results though.
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:24 PM   #9
Ectoplasm Ectoplasm is offline
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I did notice a wider soundstage when I bi-amped. I find that some really like to trash bi-amping, because:

1. Their equipment isn't capable of it.
2. Those with receivers that do it want to keep all of their zone capability, but have to tell themselves (and others) bi-amping does nothing so that they can feel content with not doing it.
3. Those with expensive multi-amp set-ups like to give everyone else one more reason why their equipment is the schnitz, and will always state that the only kind of set-up which will show any sound improvement from bi-amping is a multi-amp set-up.
4. Some people lose 7.1 capability if they bi-amp, and follow along the same line of thinking as those in #3.
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Old 07-02-2008, 01:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beta Man View Post
waste of time for that set-up in my opinion.

true "Bi-Amping" with quality equipment will provide marginal results though.
waste of time? it takes like 2 minutes to hook up the extra wires. lol.
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Old 07-02-2008, 01:17 PM   #11
nhaase nhaase is offline
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I'm one of those whose rcvr has the option of bi-amping through the surround back outputs, at the expense of 7.1 sound. I don't understand why they do that instead of giving the option of using the front "B" speaker outputs for it.
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Old 07-02-2008, 01:33 PM   #12
billt928 billt928 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ectoplasm View Post
I did notice a wider soundstage when I bi-amped. I find that some really like to trash bi-amping, because:

1. Their equipment isn't capable of it.
2. Those with receivers that do it want to keep all of their zone capability, but have to tell themselves (and others) bi-amping does nothing so that they can feel content with not doing it.
3. Those with expensive multi-amp set-ups like to give everyone else one more reason why their equipment is the schnitz, and will always state that the only kind of set-up which will show any sound improvement from bi-amping is a multi-amp set-up.
4. Some people lose 7.1 capability if they bi-amp, and follow along the same line of thinking as those in #3.

sounds very true to me.....

I have a 5300ES (only used as a pre-amp) connected to a sunfire TGA7200 Bi-amping a pair of Martin Logan ReQuest with 4 of the sunfires channels. it also drives the center and surrounds. The rear surrounds are powered by the internal 5300ES amp

the system never sounded so good. I do think it depends alot on your speakers though. I did try this with a pair of polk rt800's and not as much of a change as the ML's gained by going bi-amp

Think the sony 5300 even has a option to use the rear surround channels for bi-amping
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Old 07-02-2008, 01:56 PM   #13
Beta Man Beta Man is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhaase View Post
I'm one of those whose rcvr has the option of bi-amping through the surround back outputs, at the expense of 7.1 sound. I don't understand why they do that instead of giving the option of using the front "B" speaker outputs for it.
That would be different..... your AVR will send the surround data to the fronts then
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Old 07-02-2008, 01:59 PM   #14
Beta Man Beta Man is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ectoplasm View Post
I did notice a wider soundstage when I bi-amped. I find that some really like to trash bi-amping, because:

1. Their equipment isn't capable of it.
2. Those with receivers that do it want to keep all of their zone capability, but have to tell themselves (and others) bi-amping does nothing so that they can feel content with not doing it.
3. Those with expensive multi-amp set-ups like to give everyone else one more reason why their equipment is the schnitz, and will always state that the only kind of set-up which will show any sound improvement from bi-amping is a multi-amp set-up.
4. Some people lose 7.1 capability if they bi-amp, and follow along the same line of thinking as those in #3.

My speakers are certainly capable of it, and "NO" I don't have an expensive multi-amp set up, and I wouldn't lose 7.1 capability, since it's completely unrelated... it's different audio signals being sent, you don't want to connect surround outs, to your front speakers!

and I don't care about "zone capabilities"



Just because I don't believe there would be any benefit for his setup, doesn't make me completely oblivious to why some do it.
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Old 07-02-2008, 02:35 PM   #15
RUR RUR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ectoplasm View Post
I did notice a wider soundstage when I bi-amped. I find that some really like to trash bi-amping, because:......
All generalizations are wrong, including this one.

Using spare AVR channels hooked up to two sets of speaker terminals and using the speaker's internal (passive) crossover is called "passive" bi-amping. As with so many things, opinions vary as to its value, but its generally considered to provide little, if any, improvement in sound quality.

Using two discrete amps and an active crossover is called "active" bi-amping and, when properly executed, actually does provide audible improvement.

Last edited by RUR; 07-02-2008 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 07-02-2008, 03:10 PM   #16
007james 007james is offline
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I've had my Paradigm Studio 40's bi-amped with my Denon 3808 for about a year now, I figured the amp was not being used and the Denon has a option to use the amp for bi-amping so I used it and it has worked fine......
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Old 07-02-2008, 03:41 PM   #17
allstar780 allstar780 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman1999 View Post
I think you mean bi-wire not bi-amp. Bi-amp requires more than extra wire, it needs an extra amp channel for every speaker. Bi-wire really does not give you extra power, just splits what you have and for most basic set ups is not worth it.

bill
no, i meant bi-amp the receiver is 7.1 and if you are using 5.1 you have the option to run the surround rear jacks as a bi-amp for the fronts, then you set it to bi-amp mode so it knows they aren't surround rears connected, thus it provides double the power (i think) to the speakers


Betaman, whats wrong with my setup? lol
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Old 07-02-2008, 03:57 PM   #18
Woody Woody is offline
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Meh, as above posters have said, do it or don't do it. It doesnt really matter.

Especially with ultra efficient speakers like Klipsch.

Bi-amping is only useful IMO when you have multiple amps and external crossovers as RUR said.
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Old 07-02-2008, 04:12 PM   #19
nhaase nhaase is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beta Man View Post
That would be different..... your AVR will send the surround data to the fronts then
On my rcvr the surround back outputs can be set either for the surr. backs of a 7.1 system, two speakers in a different room for the "zone 2" setup, or bi-amping the front speakers. I have two sets of front outputs, A and B. I was saying I wished you could select the front B outputs to either bi-amp one set of front speakers or send the front signal out to two sets of front speakers, which is all my font B outputs can do. Just a wish.
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Old 07-02-2008, 04:38 PM   #20
richteer richteer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allstar780 View Post
Alright so I have the speaker wire and banana plugs to bi-amp my RF-35s, but in the owners manual for the speaker it actually says bi-amping is not recommended as it offers little improvement... I was told bi-amping would give my speakers more power, which to me is an improvement right there... then when I run the audyssey setup again with the speakers bi-amped and the receiver in bi-amp mode it should set the sound levels properly... so I ask you Blu-Bloods... to bi-amp, or not to bi-amp?
Given that you already have everything you need, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by bi-amping.

Bi-amping is almost never the most cost effective way of improving one's audio system, but if you're absolutely smitten with what you're hearing, bi-amping might help.

Although I nearly always advocate bi-wiring wherever possible, I'm more reserved about recommending bi-amping, because I feel the extra cash can be spent elsewhere for more improvement. For example, I use a pair of PrimaLuna Prologue 7 monoblocs to drive my bi-wired speakers. But instead of buying another pair to bi-amp, I'll invest in something else (probably a new pair of speakers).

Bear in mind that I prefer to make big, infrequent upgrades, because I feel I get better "wow" factor, and because it's cheaper in the long run.
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