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Old 12-02-2019, 12:52 PM   #41
Geoff D Geoff D is offline
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So in that case, there is nothing wrong then with my display after all. I admit, my TV may not have the best HDR capability, but if I'm understanding you guys correctly, my TV is still doing an ok job. Look at my first post, for example. The red color on the munkins' outfits is more saturated in the SDR screenshot, but on the HDR screenshot, it's more detailed. You can see the creases in their sleeves while on the SDR version, the color is so saturated and overblown that the creases can barely be seen!
Excellent example with the red sleeves but it's still a little from column A, a little from column B in your case. You could be getting more saturation than that for the UHD - for example, the red of the ruby slippers when we first see them on Dorothy's feet is richer to my eyes on the HDR on my TV - but NOT the kind of blown-out ridiculousness as seen in that viewsonic "comparison" image. HDR is as much about adding nuance and shades of naturalism than just arbitrarily drenching things in more colour and brightness, which is the number one misconception about the format. I kindly refer you back to post #3:

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There is also the fact that HDR isn't really an "eye candy" thing at all. It *can* be brighter and contrastier and more colourful and really "pop", but for the most part the content is being graded to look like the content, not a piece of demo material "eye candy".

That said, not all HDR displays are equal and if you're using what's mentioned in your signature then it's on the lower end of the scale for sure, as it has very poor contrast, very low peak brightness, very limited colour gamut beyond 709 and no local dimming at all, just frame dimming. It's just about the worst possible TV for HDR you could've bought, and is most likely why HDR looks so poor compared to SDR.

Last edited by Geoff D; 12-02-2019 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 12-02-2019, 01:19 PM   #42
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Excellent example with the red sleeves but it's still a little from column A, a little from column B in your case. You could be getting more saturation than that for the UHD - for example, the red of the ruby slippers when we first see them on Dorothy's feet is richer to my eyes on the HDR - but NOT the kind of blown-out ridiculousness as seen in that viewsonic "comparison" image. HDR is as much about adding nuance and shades of naturalism than just arbitrarily drenching things in more colour and brightness, which is the number one misconception about the format. I kindly refer you back to post #3:
A fine example indeed. I mean the Wizard Of Oz was always going to look crazy levels of excellent in UHD, never mind warn a bro scanned it in 8K. It's littered with examples.

It should be very easy even for a layman to spot over saturation on this source. The background would at even very slight levels of over saturation show areas being blown out.
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Old 12-02-2019, 03:09 PM   #43
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It depends. Neons are going to pop out. Most shades of red and orange (flames) can pop. Other benefit of the format is WCG, which can lend sophistication (not necessarily a pop) to a pastel color palette for example
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Old 12-02-2019, 03:21 PM   #44
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It depends. Neons are going to pop out. Most shades of red and orange (flames) can pop. Other benefit of the format is WCG, which can lend sophistication (not necessarily a pop) to a pastel color palette for example
I think it's going to take 8k when things will look like real life for people to finally realise overally vivid colours is not a marker of good image quality.
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Old 12-02-2019, 03:51 PM   #45
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I think it's going to take 8k when things will look like real life for people to finally realise overally vivid colours is not a marker of good image quality.
When color was a new technology, many films took great care in handling it. If films such as Black Narcissus and Red Shoes were to come to the format, I would expect colors to pop. Hitchcock's Vertigo and To Catch a Theif use colors impressively too

Then you have films such as The Grand Budapest Hotel, which rely on a pastel palette. I am a fan of B&W films as well. I like the Schindler's List transfer too


Below is a video that I like as it displays nuances in shades and the relationship with light to determine "pop-ability":

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Old 12-02-2019, 05:02 PM   #46
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It's going to be interesting to see how many technicolor productions make it to the format. I also suspect academic institutions might also might contribute towards some releases.
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Old 12-02-2019, 05:14 PM   #47
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I think it's going to take 8k when things will look like real life for people to finally realise overally vivid colours is not a marker of good image quality.
But as long as the next big thing keeps being marketed as the next big thing then these assumptions from the buying public will never be overcome. 20 years ago I was selling TVs for a living (up until 2014) and lemme tell ya, the tech may have advanced massively but the song remains the same: if people don't get dazzlingly crisp, sharp and colourful imagery for every single little thing they watch on their fancy new TV - you know, "like it does in the showroom" - then they feel like they've been duped.
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Old 12-02-2019, 06:07 PM   #48
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Panasonic UB9000-Dynamic Range Conversion. That will do it.
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Old 12-02-2019, 06:12 PM   #49
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I would love to see HDR and WCG implementation on this:



This is among the most sophisticated use of colors that I have seen
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Old 12-02-2019, 06:27 PM   #50
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You'd need to be less than ft away from the TV to see 4K on anything below 50".
There are other - many would argue more significant - advantages to the format though, like wide color gamut and HDR. And in fact the discussion was about HDR, so I don't know why you're telling me this. I'm well aware of the arguments re: resolution and seating distance and all that. I was just bringing up a well-regarded 4K HDR TV that's available in a smaller size than 55".

I personally don't own a X900F and am not planning on getting one. I have the itch to upgrade soon, but am waiting to see what happens next year. Of course, I said the same about this year, and the one before... I've fallen into that "let's see what innovations come along..." mindset. When I do get my next TV, I'm leaning towards that either being a Sony LCD (X900 or Z9 series) or a Panasonic or Sony OLED, but of course I can't say for sure until I get there.
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Old 12-02-2019, 08:12 PM   #51
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There are other - many would argue more significant - advantages to the format though, like wide color gamut and HDR. And in fact the discussion was about HDR, so I don't know why you're telling me this. I'm well aware of the arguments re: resolution and seating distance and all that. I was just bringing up a well-regarded 4K HDR TV that's available in a smaller size than 55".

I personally don't own a X900F and am not planning on getting one. I have the itch to upgrade soon, but am waiting to see what happens next year. Of course, I said the same about this year, and the one before... I've fallen into that "let's see what innovations come along..." mindset. When I do get my next TV, I'm leaning towards that either being a Sony LCD (X900 or Z9 series) or a Panasonic or Sony OLED, but of course I can't say for sure until I get there.
It's a wise idea to wait till next year. I half suspect Sony has held off on variable refresh rates ect. Because they want to capitalise on the PS5 launch. So those getting new TVs don't just plop for cheaper older models.
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Old 12-03-2019, 01:33 AM   #52
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How cow!! I just played that on my TV and that video looks stunning! The richness of the colors and the beautiful textures in the image!! I even checked my TV info and HDR is indeed enabled when that video is playing. I've never seen this amazing image quality on any of the 4K HDR movies I've been streaming on Vudu, GooglePlay or Movies Anywhere. And if my TV can play that YouTube video with such beautiful brightness and colors, then why can't it play any of the 4K movies that I stream in the same way? Something is wrong somewhere!!
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:06 AM   #53
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How cow!! I just played that on my TV and that video looks stunning! The richness of the colors and the beautiful textures in the image!! I even checked my TV info and HDR is indeed enabled when that video is playing. I've never seen this amazing image quality on any of the 4K HDR movies I've been streaming on Vudu, GooglePlay or Movies Anywhere. And if my TV can play that YouTube video with such beautiful brightness and colors, then why can't it play any of the 4K movies that I stream in the same way? Something is wrong somewhere!!
I guess, it would depend upon the video/movie as not every content is created equal. For e.g., if you look at the IMAX sequences on Mission Impossible 4, you would likely be impressed with that too.

For streaming, I mostly use Apple TV 4K with 200 MBPS devoted to it. I discovered that Google Play (not available on Apple TV 4K) does wash HDR content on the app on my TV and 4K player. Therefore, I do not use it anymore for HDR purchases and rentals. Google probably fixed the issue on Chromecast Ultra so try getting it for 4K HDR content if you use GP primarily

And there are people who find SDR content better esp. in games, like the one in the video below, so until there is a standard to judge or measure HDR implementation, you may find people on both sides of the fence:

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Old 12-03-2019, 03:38 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHT View Post
How cow!! I just played that on my TV and that video looks stunning! The richness of the colors and the beautiful textures in the image!! I even checked my TV info and HDR is indeed enabled when that video is playing. I've never seen this amazing image quality on any of the 4K HDR movies I've been streaming on Vudu, GooglePlay or Movies Anywhere. And if my TV can play that YouTube video with such beautiful brightness and colors, then why can't it play any of the 4K movies that I stream in the same way? Something is wrong somewhere!!
Because movies aren't shot to be demo materi....oh forget it
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Old 12-03-2019, 04:53 AM   #55
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Because movies aren't shot to be demo materi....oh forget it
I was confused. A number of people were telling me that HDR is supposed to look like that “demo material” and the reason why I wasn’t seeing it was because I bought the crappiest TV on the market.

If I take your advice, then I guess my tv is fine then and is not complete garbage as many people here have claimed.
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Old 12-03-2019, 08:04 AM   #56
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I was confused. A number of people were telling me that HDR is supposed to look like that “demo material” and the reason why I wasn’t seeing it was because I bought the crappiest TV on the market.

If I take your advice, then I guess my tv is fine then and is not complete garbage as many people here have claimed.
Technically, concerning the major manufacturers at least, no TV is garbage exactly. There's at least a tangible base line of quality with SDR image quality, HDR not yet. It all comes down to your usage, and what you are wanting a TV for.

If you plan on just watching Coronation Street, then a 2 grand OLED is over kill.

You need to figure out your usage, and buy according to that. Simple.
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:39 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHT View Post
I was confused. A number of people were telling me that HDR is supposed to look like that “demo material” and the reason why I wasn’t seeing it was because I bought the crappiest TV on the market.

If I take your advice, then I guess my tv is fine then and is not complete garbage as many people here have claimed.
You're looking for a binary yes/no answer here but I don't have one to give you. I've said this several times in the thread already: you're encountering a combination of having one of the least-HDR-like TVs on the market PLUS the fact that movies aren't all shot to "pop" like demo material. I'm sure that demo clip looked amazing even on your TV because that's what they're supposed to do, demo clips are so overloaded with brightness and colour (designed to make the TV stand out in a brightly lit showroom) that even poorer display implementation is going to rock it, but as soon as you come up against real world content you're going to get a lot less "pop" (by design) which is only exacerbated further by the restricted HDR capabilities of your TV.
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:54 PM   #58
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I appreciate the advice, but maybe my issue lies with the Sony brand. Notice that nws56 also has a Sony TV (a higher end one, I presume) and has a similar problem as me.

My colleague has a Samsung 49" Series 7 TV, which is not the highest end TV on the market, and he keeps telling me that the HDR on his TV is jaw-dropping incredible. I'm not saying his picture "pops" but all I'm saying is that he claims that the HDR catches his eye in some sort of way.

So, I still say something is missing. And like I said, maybe it's Sony and I'll be sure to steer clear from their TVs going forward.
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Old 12-03-2019, 03:04 PM   #59
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Quote:
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I appreciate the advice, but maybe my issue lies with the Sony brand. Notice that nws56 also has a Sony TV (a higher end one, I presume) and has a similar problem as me.

My colleague has a Samsung 49" Series 7 TV, which is not the highest end TV on the market, and he keeps telling me that the HDR on his TV is jaw-dropping incredible. I'm not saying his picture "pops" but all I'm saying is that he claims that the HDR catches his eye in some sort of way.

So, I still say something is missing. And like I said, maybe it's Sony and I'll be sure to steer clear from their TVs going forward.
That's because Samsung TVs have higher colour volume, and saturation. But because of that, they don't have the most natural picture.

But sure, they "Pop".
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Old 12-03-2019, 03:51 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHT View Post

My colleague has a Samsung 49" Series 7 TV, which is not the highest end TV on the market, and he keeps telling me that the HDR on his TV is jaw-dropping incredible. I'm not saying his picture "pops" but all I'm saying is that he claims that the HDR catches his eye in some sort of way.
For vivid colors and brightness, a QLED does the trick

Btw a basic question, do you have the same saturation level for SDR and HDR content? If yes, maybe try increasing the saturation for HDR. Also play around with the dynamic contrast settings

PS Not sure which OS is on the Sony TV. But Google Play app does wash out colors of HDR content. Try Chromecast Ultra if applicable
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