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Old 10-05-2022, 11:32 PM   #641
Just_Discovered_3D Just_Discovered_3D is offline
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In the battle of corporation vs corporation, I don't really care to pick a side, but the one that cynically tries to play on my sympathies (union) to sway me leaves a bad taste.

As someone who rarely finds CA union dubs to be good, I'm doing the Professor Hulk line and "I see this as an absolute win." Though I acknowledge that Funi's in-house dubs have declined quality-wise (doing too much too fast, new directors, losing some top talent etc) in recent years.
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Old 10-05-2022, 11:48 PM   #642
Chie Satonaka Chie Satonaka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Discovered_3D View Post
In the battle of corporation vs corporation, I don't really care to pick a side, but the one that cynically tries to play on my sympathies (union) to sway me leaves a bad taste.

As someone who rarely finds CA union dubs to be good, I'm doing the Professor Hulk line and "I see this as an absolute win." Though I acknowledge that Funi's in-house dubs have declined quality-wise (doing too much too fast, new directors, losing some top talent etc) in recent years.
Are you seriously comparing the voice actors union to a massive global corporation like Sony? The union is an organization that represents the workers who are a part of it.
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Old 10-06-2022, 12:37 AM   #643
Just_Discovered_3D Just_Discovered_3D is offline
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Originally Posted by Chie Satonaka View Post
Are you seriously comparing the voice actors union to a massive global corporation like Sony? The union is an organization that represents the workers who are a part of it.
Leadership always claims to represent and be working for the benefit of the rank & file, but that's not always the case for all of their initiatives. Something to bear in mind.

It could be in this case, but as they are trying to play to our sympathies, I encourage taking a look at the logic of their position as quite often an emotional argument is used when logic wouldn't hold up.

Generally, I'd agree with your notion of supporting the underdog, but this is effectively corporation vs corporation and just because one is bigger than the other, IMO both are too big to be an underdog.
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Old 10-06-2022, 01:52 AM   #644
Chie Satonaka Chie Satonaka is offline
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Originally Posted by Just_Discovered_3D View Post
Leadership always claims to represent and be working for the benefit of the rank & file, but that's not always the case for all of their initiatives. Something to bear in mind.

It could be in this case, but as they are trying to play to our sympathies, I encourage taking a look at the logic of their position as quite often an emotional argument is used when logic wouldn't hold up.

Generally, I'd agree with your notion of supporting the underdog, but this is effectively corporation vs corporation and just because one is bigger than the other, IMO both are too big to be an underdog.
The union represents the voice actors, they can't collectively bargain without leverage and being part of an organization like a union is a requirement to be effective. Saying that the union is a "corporation" on the same kind of level as Sony is disingenuous. If they didn't have their union they would be in the same boat as all the non union vas in Texas who are powerless.
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Old 10-06-2022, 02:17 AM   #645
Just_Discovered_3D Just_Discovered_3D is offline
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Originally Posted by Chie Satonaka View Post
The union represents the voice actors, they can't collectively bargain without leverage and being part of an organization like a union is a requirement to be effective. Saying that the union is a "corporation" on the same kind of level as Sony is disingenuous. If they didn't have their union they would be in the same boat as all the non union vas in Texas who are powerless.
After their strike over video gaming a few years back, I don't have the same perspective on the VA union as you do.

What happened to the anime industry being a place where actors were being recruited from various walks of life and afforded a chance to make a few bucks on the side with their voice, maybe turning it into a full time job if they really resonated with the craft or got into the production side of things?

Tragically, it sure seems like the union leadership tried to make a power play, lost, and the union rank and file lost their jobs over it. From my experience, that's how it usually goes with unions.
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Old 10-06-2022, 06:21 AM   #646
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Mob Psycho is back
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Old 10-06-2022, 04:36 PM   #647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Discovered_3D View Post
After their strike over video gaming a few years back, I don't have the same perspective on the VA union as you do.

What happened to the anime industry being a place where actors were being recruited from various walks of life and afforded a chance to make a few bucks on the side with their voice, maybe turning it into a full time job if they really resonated with the craft or got into the production side of things?

Tragically, it sure seems like the union leadership tried to make a power play, lost, and the union rank and file lost their jobs over it. From my experience, that's how it usually goes with unions.
You realize you don’t have to be in SAG-AFTRA to work on SAG projects, right? You can still be cast if you’re not in the union, and then you’ll be Taft-Hartleyed into SAG-Eligible status. And if you’re in a right-to-work state (which Texas is), you’ll never be required to join, and can continue taking union gigs. Source: I’m a SAG-Eligible working actor who has lived in two RtW states (VA and GA).

Last edited by GeoffOliver; 10-07-2022 at 02:01 AM.
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Old 10-06-2022, 05:03 PM   #648
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I remember Carey Means (the Voice Actor for Frylock in Aqua Teen Hunger Force) was mentioning the difference between his career as being a Non SAG Member in Georgia vs. Dana Snyder’s(Shake) career as a SAG Member in California.

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“The thing is, people assume that I get royalties from the show: I do not,” Means said. “I don’t receive any royalties, back pay, nothing from DVD sales, primarily because I live in Georgia, which is a ‘right to work’ state… Dana might get royalties because he’s in SAG (the Screen Actor’s Guild, SAG-AFTRA) in L.A., but I don’t… I got one flat fee [per episode], nothing on the backend. It was about $2,000 per towards the end of the series, and almost $10,000 for the movie.”
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Old 10-06-2022, 09:49 PM   #649
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"Dana might get royalties"

Keyword is might. Unless said person come out and say they got royalties then we'll never know.

Last edited by neoz; 10-07-2022 at 12:05 AM.
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Old 10-06-2022, 11:34 PM   #650
GeoffOliver GeoffOliver is offline
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Originally Posted by neoz View Post
"Dana might get royalties"

Keyword is might. Unless said person come out and says they got royalties then we'll never know.
Generally, SAG actors do receive royalties from physical media sales and cable reruns. It's streaming that's complicating that issue right now.

Anime is different though since, AFAIF, the dubbing agreement only covers royalties for broadcast TV (meaning SAG voice actors can only receive residuals for anime if it runs on CBS, ABC, NBC, FOX, CW, PBS, etc). The SAG voice actors for Boruto, Yashahime, Jojo, Gundam, etc aren't getting any royalties because they're only available on cable, streaming, and/or physical media. Crispin Freeman (who's worked exclusively union for over 15 years) says he's only gotten residuals from anime once.

Last edited by GeoffOliver; 10-07-2022 at 02:02 AM.
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Old 10-07-2022, 05:48 AM   #651
Chie Satonaka Chie Satonaka is offline
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Originally Posted by GeoffOliver View Post
Generally, SAG actors do receive royalties from physical media sales and cable reruns. It's streaming that's complicating that issue right now.

Anime is different though since, AFAIF, the dubbing agreement only covers royalties for broadcast TV (meaning SAG voice actors can only receive residuals for anime if it runs on CBS, ABC, NBC, FOX, CW, PBS, etc). The SAG voice actors for Boruto, Yashahime, Jojo, Gundam, etc aren't getting any royalties because they're only available on cable, streaming, and/or physical media. Crispin Freeman (who's worked exclusively union for over 15 years) says he's only gotten residuals from anime once.
That's patheritc that broadcast tv counts but not cable. When's the last time any anime actually aired on those networks? Maybe when kidsWB was still a thing?
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Old 10-07-2022, 05:51 AM   #652
Chie Satonaka Chie Satonaka is offline
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Originally Posted by MOONPHASE View Post
I remember Carey Means (the Voice Actor for Frylock in Aqua Teen Hunger Force) was mentioning the difference between his career as being a Non SAG Member in Georgia vs. Dana Snyder’s(Shake) career as a SAG Member in California.
Man they really did him dirty. I actually met him at a convention this past summer. Cool dude and got a cool Frylock picture autographed from him.
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Old 10-07-2022, 06:48 AM   #653
Just_Discovered_3D Just_Discovered_3D is offline
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Originally Posted by GeoffOliver View Post
You realize you don’t have to be in SAG-AFTRA to work on SAG projects, right? You can still be cast if you’re not in the union, and then you’ll be Taft-Hartleyed into SAG-Eligible status. And if you’re in a right-to-work state (which Texas is), you’ll never be required to join, and can continue taking union gigs. Source: I’m a SAG-Eligible working actor who has lived in two RtW states (VA and GA).
I remember Anime News Network really pushed that Taft-Hartley exception as a sort of panacea when the unionization was under way, and it turned out it was not exactly the easy-peasy magic bullet that it was presented as being.

Frankly, I remain leery of effectively having to go through a third party to obtain employment, "David Lucas" and similar shenanigans forced by the union frame it as though if you deal with the union then you don't necessarily own the right to your own labor.

All that said, the struggle with unions here seems to circle back to benefits that would only be provided to actors who were in the union (eg: pensions). Although that does bring me to a side note, that the much-feted pay raise that the Ascendance of a Bookworm dub actress demanded and received is money that really could have been piped back to improve the quite budget animation.
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The thing is though, when corporate profits are at an all-time high, I think that that indicates to me that there's still plenty of room for everybody down at the bottom levels to get a bigger piece of the pie.
^(Kyle McCarley; "Mob")
In that same article, "Mob" mentions that the union takes a percentage that appears to sum to 14.575% of the actor's pay. Perhaps its incorrect to see the union's demands as ultimately siphoning money away from improving anime production, but that's how it sometimes seems to me.
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Old 10-07-2022, 04:50 PM   #654
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Ahhh, nothing says "anime thread" like constant complaints about...paying taxes and unions? Never change.
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Old 10-07-2022, 06:08 PM   #655
GeoffOliver GeoffOliver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Discovered_3D View Post
I remember Anime News Network really pushed that Taft-Hartley exception as a sort of panacea when the unionization was under way, and it turned out it was not exactly the easy-peasy magic bullet that it was presented as being.

Frankly, I remain leery of effectively having to go through a third party to obtain employment, "David Lucas" and similar shenanigans forced by the union frame it as though if you deal with the union then you don't necessarily own the right to your own labor.

All that said, the struggle with unions here seems to circle back to benefits that would only be provided to actors who were in the union (eg: pensions). Although that does bring me to a side note, that the much-feted pay raise that the Ascendance of a Bookworm dub actress demanded and received is money that really could have been piped back to improve the quite budget animation.

^(Kyle McCarley; "Mob")
In that same article, "Mob" mentions that the union takes a percentage that appears to sum to 14.575% of the actor's pay. Perhaps its incorrect to see the union's demands as ultimately siphoning money away from improving anime production, but that's how it sometimes seems to me.
Have you ever worked under a SAG contract? Have you ever been Taft Hartleyed? I have for both. It’s very common, and usually happens when actors work background. Many anime voice actors were THed when Netflix started dubbing their anime exclusively under SAG contracts, and Kyle himself says he doesn’t know of any anime VAs that were turned down from union membership because of it. SAG is one of the easiest unions to join. Aside from paying your annual fee (which varies depending on where you live, but usually around $900 annually) and promising to never work non-union, they’re very straight-forward to deal with, and offer so many more protections (both financial and otherwise) and benefits that non-union acting never could. It’s certainly not a “third party” that you have to seek employment through. Is it always the best idea to join? No. If you live in a RtW state, it isn’t unless you’re established and working all the time, which is why being SAG-Eligible (which I am) is such a desirable position to be in (it makes it easy to work both union and non-union). There’s also Fi-Core status, which allows actors to work both with no hang ups. Many anime VAs have declared financial core status so they can do both, but some (like Erin Fitzgerald) have gone back to exclusively union because more and more anime and video games are being recorded with SAG contracts.

But the bottom line is: actors deserve fair pay and fair treatment. They simply aren’t getting that with non-union projects. A project being union doesn’t solve all the problems (the dubbing pay is still extremely low), but it definitely gives the actors an advantage to fight for fair treatment. If you personally worked both (which I have), you could absolutely understand the difference. Even when I worked non-union on SAG projects, there was a world of difference between that and a completely non-union project (where they could keep us for as long as they wanted for no overtime pay, worse filming conditions, a highly disorganized set, questionable ethics, etc).
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Old 10-15-2022, 06:40 PM   #656
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As we're seeing another VA pay related issue crop up, this time between Platinum/Nintendo and Hellena Taylor for Bayonetta 3, it's pretty clear that across both the anime and video game industry, VAs are pretty disrespected and offered peanuts by the major corporations profiting from their work.

I found these comments from Sean Chiplock interesting when discussing his own pay









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Old 10-15-2022, 10:53 PM   #657
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Originally Posted by bigzgod View Post
As we're seeing another VA pay related issue crop up, this time between Platinum/Nintendo and Hellena Taylor for Bayonetta 3, it's pretty clear that across both the anime and video game industry, VAs are pretty disrespected and offered peanuts by the major corporations profiting from their work.

I found these comments from Sean Chiplock interesting when discussing his own pay









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to be fair, the pay rate probably depends on the popularity of the series, and Legend of Zelda is more popular than Bayonetta
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Old 10-15-2022, 11:19 PM   #658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigzgod View Post
As we're seeing another VA pay related issue crop up, this time between Platinum/Nintendo and Hellena Taylor for Bayonetta 3, it's pretty clear that across both the anime and video game industry, VAs are pretty disrespected and offered peanuts by the major corporations profiting from their work.
Taylor directly mentions Platinum and only Platinum in that Twitter thread, nothing about Nintendo iirc
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Old 10-15-2022, 11:36 PM   #659
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Taylor directly mentions Platinum and only Platinum in that Twitter thread, nothing about Nintendo iirc
Nintendo was not directly mentioned but considering Taylor is calling for a boycott and Nintendo is the publisher of Bayonetta 3, they are impacted, regardless of the fact that they likely weren't involved with the decision-making in this entire affair.
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Old 10-16-2022, 03:41 AM   #660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigzgod View Post
As we're seeing another VA pay related issue crop up, this time between Platinum/Nintendo and Hellena Taylor for Bayonetta 3, it's pretty clear that across both the anime and video game industry, VAs are pretty disrespected and offered peanuts by the major corporations profiting from their work.
Wait until you hear how much translators get paid, and whether or not they always even so much as get credited despite the fact that without them, there would be nothing.

Seriously though, so many different positions despite their importance end up not being very good in terms of pay, working conditions, or benefits. That's what happens when the workplace is this top-down undemocratic hierarchy.
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