Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[master gandhi]

I actually use the three big digital providers (Amazon, iTunes and VUDU). Of course, there's no UV redemption with Amazon or iTunes, but there's still a lot of movies that include iTunes codes. All three providers sometimes have good sales too, but iTunes has the best sales IMO, and more special features than the others. My favorite is easily iTunes, which is why I buy discounted gift cards for it whenever I can.

But there's no current way for me to restrict myself to just one provider. That's way too limiting, unless the industry finds a way to create a universal Keychest system like DMA, where all my VUDU copies and Amazon copies would migrate into iTunes as well. That would be amazing, and there's talk of something like that happening someday, which makes me want to stop buying movies on iTunes that I already have on Amazon/VUDU just in case.

[huskerbear]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

I actually use the three big digital providers (Amazon, iTunes and VUDU). Of course, there's no UV redemption with Amazon or iTunes, but there's still a lot of movies that include iTunes codes. All three providers sometimes have good sales too, but iTunes has the best sales IMO, and more special features than the others. My favorite is easily iTunes, which is why I buy discounted gift cards for it whenever I can.

But there's no current way for me to restrict myself to just one provider. That's way too limiting, unless the industry finds a way to create a universal Keychest system like DMA, where all my VUDU copies and Amazon copies would migrate into iTunes as well. That would be amazing, and there's talk of something like that happening someday, which makes me want to stop buying movies on iTunes that I already have on Amazon/VUDU just in case.

That's the thing, they did...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digita...tent_Ecosystem

They can't make them join. Should they re name it to see if they will join then? I don't have the answers either, it's all guess work

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by huskerbear

That's the thing, they did...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digita...tent_Ecosystem

They can't make them join. Should they re name it to see if they will join then? I don't have the answers either, it's all guess work

Right. I mean, something like UV/Keychest that is adopted by all the studios and providers. Somehow (money), Disney got all the major providers to support DMA, which makes it superior to UV. Buy on Amazon, get it on iTunes/VUDU. The best UV can do is let you buy it on FandangoNow and get it on VUDU. That is, unless it's DMA, and then it's stuck on FandangoNow.

For the average consumer, digital is a bit of a headache, unless you do just stick to one provider and ignore all the others. For the more savvy individuals, digital is still a mess. It needs to be cleaned up. I'm sure most of us agree on that.

[huskerbear]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

Right. I mean, something like UV/Keychest that is adopted by all the studios and providers. Somehow (money), Disney got all the major providers to support DMA, which makes it superior to UV. Buy on Amazon, get it on iTunes/VUDU. The best UV can do is let you buy it on FandangoNow and get it on VUDU. That is, unless it's DMA, and then it's stuck on FandangoNow.

For the average consumer, digital is a bit of a headache, unless you do just stick to one provider and ignore all the others. For the more savvy individuals, digital is still a mess. It needs to be cleaned up. I'm sure most of us agree on that.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong but I think it would take a name change and give Apple a 1yr. exclusive (they like to feel special) similar to what Disney did..... they probably still wouldn't. I know many disagree but I just don't think allowing competition to itunes on the Apple tv is something they would consider, as far as buying and renting movies. I'm just glad I didn't start with itunes as many did. Disney and Apple had a chance to vote in the DECE and chose not to, they probably already had the DMA thing in the works.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

The Studios do want more control over their Movies, and I think with Digital they get this. Your titles should not disappear, if you keep good records and stay with one Provider your Library is pretty safe. With UV it also saves them on various Servers. What I have been telling you guys about FTTH, and in The Home has been verified by my Magazine Sound & Vision. They said with Streaming Video Fiber will be needed, especially with 4k+. I watch all the recent Movies now Streaming, because I can see them way before they come out on Disc. These time intervals are getting shorter and shorter, and I'm sure First Run Movies are next to come to Streaming.

It doesn't matter how many servers the movies are stored on. I'm not worried that the studios are going to accidentally lose the files. I'm worried that they will lose the rights to movies or TV shows. I'm worried that they'll remove titles because they don't want to sell them. This has already happened with plenty of titles and it will become more and more common.

With physical media the used market ensures that there is no possible way that anyone can prevent a title from being available.

[stonesfan129]

I love iTunes, buy most of my music there, but not movies. The thing that kills it for me is the DRM and that most of the encodes look worse than somebody who ran the Blu-ray through x264 on their computer. What would make my day is if Blu-ray players could decrypt iTunes DRM so that I could watch all my purchases off of an external HDD on my Blu-ray player. iTunes as an app. I don't see why it couldn't be done. And I don't get why UV codes stopped being redeemable in iTunes.

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

It doesn't matter how many servers the movies are stored on. I'm not worried that the studios are going to accidentally lose the files. I'm worried that they will lose the rights to movies or TV shows. I'm worried that they'll remove titles because they don't want to sell them. This has already happened with plenty of titles and it will become more and more common.

With physical media the used market ensures that there is no possible way that anyone can prevent a title from being available.

Either that or they'll take them off of the purchase sites in favor of streaming. Music is going in the same direction.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

I love iTunes, buy most of my music there, but not movies. The thing that kills it for me is the DRM and that most of the encodes look worse than somebody who ran the Blu-ray through x264 on their computer. What would make my day is if Blu-ray players could decrypt iTunes DRM so that I could watch all my purchases off of an external HDD on my Blu-ray player. iTunes as an app. I don't see why it couldn't be done. And I don't get why UV codes stopped being redeemable in iTunes.

Either that or they'll take them off of the purchase sites in favor of streaming. Music is going in the same direction.

You guys have to wake up and smell the Digital, Discs are a thing of the past. Technology moves fast, one day Blu-ray was King and the next day people are wondering what happened. Discs had a good run, but now it's all about Digital Streaming. I saw this coming years ago when I Streamed DVD Video from my Home Server. I think it's a good thing to watch First Run Movies when they come out.

[PCFan]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You guys have to wake up and smell the Digital, Discs are a thing of the past. Technology moves fast, one day Blu-ray was King and the next day people are wondering what happened. Discs had a good run, but now it's all about Digital Streaming. I saw this coming years ago when I Streamed DVD Video from my Home Server. I think it's a good thing to watch First Run Movies when they come out.

When I go to Best Buy and see someone carry out a TV, it says 4k on the box 4 out of 5 times and I would not be surprised if their main 4k source was 4k streaming from one of the major subscription streaming services.

[Mr Kite]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Infancy, where have you been.....It's here now, and only getting better. I don't buy Disc anymore if it doesn't have a Digital Copy. I watch all my movies on Streaming now, it's getting to be a waste of money buying Disc. I see barrels of Blu-ray going for $5, and no one buying them because few have Digital Copies. The demise of the Disc is just around the corner!

I hope not.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You guys have to wake up and smell the Digital, Discs are a thing of the past. Technology moves fast, one day Blu-ray was King and the next day people are wondering what happened. Discs had a good run, but now it's all about Digital Streaming. I saw this coming years ago when I Streamed DVD Video from my Home Server. I think it's a good thing to watch First Run Movies when they come out.

How is this an argument against our points? We are well aware that digital is popular and will continue to get more popular. But all of the problems we mentioned will continue to exist no matter how popular it is. The studios love digital because they have full control over it; they're never going to give up that control.

We don't have to support digital just because it's popular and frankly I'm not sure why you care that we do. Since the studios prefer digital and digital is getting more popular the physical supporters aren't doing digital any harm... no matter how many titles we buy on physical media everything will still be released digitally. Obviously the opposite isn't true, more people supporting digital means less support for physical media and less titles available on physical media.

Please stop comparing ripping your own physical media to digital media. The important thing is the distribution method, not how you watch it. If you get content physically from the studios but watch it digitally via rips that's still physical distribution.

[stonesfan129]

The only reason studios are pushing streaming is because then you have to keep paying them whereas with physical you pay once and own it forever.

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

The only reason studios are pushing streaming is because then you have to keep paying them whereas with physical you pay once and own it forever.

You're thinking of a subscription serivice. We're talking more about digital services like iTunes and VUDU. There's no monthly cost with them.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You guys have to wake up and smell the Digital, Discs are a thing of the past. Technology moves fast, one day Blu-ray was King and the next day people are wondering what happened. Discs had a good run, but now it's all about Digital Streaming. I saw this coming years ago when I Streamed DVD Video from my Home Server. I think it's a good thing to watch First Run Movies when they come out.

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

How is this an argument against our points? We are well aware that digital is popular and will continue to get more popular. But all of the problems we mentioned will continue to exist no matter how popular it is. The studios love digital because they have full control over it; they're never going to give up that control.

We don't have to support digital just because it's popular and frankly I'm not sure why you care that we do. Since the studios prefer digital and digital is getting more popular the physical supporters aren't doing digital any harm... no matter how many titles we buy on physical media everything will still be released digitally. Obviously the opposite isn't true, more people supporting digital means less support for physical media and less titles available on physical media.

Please stop comparing ripping your own physical media to digital media. The important thing is the distribution method, not how you watch it. If you get content physically from the studios but watch it digitally via rips that's still physical distribution.

It's not only popular, but mainstream too. You Disc Lovers put Digital down because you say it's not as good as Physical, when in fact it's all Digital now. Your Slogan, that Streaming and Downloads are the Death of the preservation of The Arts, does not make sense anymore. You have to go all the way back to Film, to really put meaning to your Slogan. When I talked about Streaming DVD from my Home Server, that was Decades ago that I would put DVD Files to Stream to my HDTV. My only concern, and point is that HD Digital and Physical are one in the same when the BitRate is equal. With the right set up and Bandwidth this is possible, especially with FTTH.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

It's not only popular, but mainstream too.

Saying that digital is popular and mainstream isn't an argument about its merits.

Originally Posted by alchav21

You Disc Lovers put Digital down because you say it's not as good as Physical, when in fact it's all Digital now.

The files on a disc are digital, but they are distributed physically.

Originally Posted by alchav21

Your Slogan, that Streaming and Downloads are the Death of the preservation of The Arts, does not make sense anymore. You have to go all the way back to Film, to really put meaning to your Slogan.

Digital distribution isn't as good as physical distribution because the studios have full control: they can make a title unavailable at any time... I've stated this repeatedly. If a title is unavailable then it isn't preserved, that's what my signature is referring to. The used market prevents this from ever happening with physical media.

There is a reason I said "streaming and downloads" rather than "digital" in my signature. I don't have a preference of analog over digital. I have a preference of physical distribution over digital distribution.

[pabloccb]

Sorry, but physical copies are forever. Digital depends on computers, internet connection, streaming services. Remember when Prince catalog used to be on Spotify and then he dediced it shouldn't be there anymore. I still have my cd's.

[stonesfan129]

I don't understand why it's still illegal to buy the physical disc and create your own digital copies.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

I don't understand why it's still illegal to buy the physical disc and create your own digital copies.

Because the studios have powerful lobbyists. It's also illegal to remove DRM from purchased digital copies for the same reason.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Your Slogan, that Streaming and Downloads are the Death of the preservation of The Arts, does not make sense anymore. You have to go all the way back to Film, to really put meaning to your Slogan.

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

The files on a disc are digital, but they are distributed physically.

There is a reason I said "streaming and downloads" rather than "digital" in my signature. I don't have a preference of analog over digital. I have a preference of physical distribution over digital distribution.

I see your point now, you're not putting down Digital Streaming but from the point of Distribution, Physical is better. That may be so, but the way I see it, it will only get more expensive. 4k is around $30, and Blu-ray $20 for new releases. I know you Disc Lovers count on the prices even lower, like you said, the used market. So I think what will happen, especially with 8k, 16k+, is the prices will keep going up. It's all about supply and demand, even in the used market. So if you want Disc, you're going to pay for it!

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I see your point now, you're not putting down Digital Streaming but from the point of Distribution, Physical is better. That may be so, but the way I see it, it will only get more expensive. 4k is around $30, and Blu-ray $20 for new releases. I know you Disc Lovers count on the prices even lower, like you said, the used market. So I think what will happen, especially with 8k, 16k+, is the prices will keep going up. It's all about supply and demand, even in the used market. So if you want Disc, you're going to pay for it!

New release digital titles are around $20 as well. The studios will charge whatever they think customers will pay, regardless of the costs associated with distribution.

4K sales have been pretty good lately and they'll go lower as 4K becomes more popular. At launch Blu-ray frequently went for $35-$40 but 4K is already cheaper than that. If I'm not mistaken DVDs launched for even higher. Prices are trending downward for all media.

[Lowenbotten]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I see your point now, you're not putting down Digital Streaming but from the point of Distribution, Physical is better. That may be so, but the way I see it, it will only get more expensive. 4k is around $30, and Blu-ray $20 for new releases. I know you Disc Lovers count on the prices even lower, like you said, the used market. So I think what will happen, especially with 8k, 16k+, is the prices will keep going up. It's all about supply and demand, even in the used market. So if you want Disc, you're going to pay for it!

Knock it off already. Your act is tiresome. Do you have some kind of personal stake in digital goods? You seem determined to convince everyone that digital is superior to the point of saying things that are blatantly untrue, especially your claim that Vudu = Blu-ray (it doesn't). Yes, I know you'll go on about fiber to the home. Fiber to the home doesn't magically make the video source, Vudu's files on their servers, the same as Blu-ray.