Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Meh. Message me when we have high bit rates and a cracking Dolby a Atmos track. 20 years time?

I would love to do a test with you because I honestly don't think you could tell which is which. Maybe sound wise (but then I don't have atmos) but picture wise, I'm not sure you could. Certainly if I swapped out the 4K for the Blu Ray (on certain titles) you'd struggle to see a difference.

The reason to have physical media is the artwork and the extras. There are very few extras for the Star Wars titles on Disney+ but then I rarely watch them anyway. With that said, as I've always had physical media, I struggle to let it go even though it could save me a fortune - £20 - £25 a disc.

Disney+ The picture is crystal clear and super sharp on my television. I've only tried Empire so far but it looked great. Bitrates on discs drop too, while watching Dispicable Me, I saw the bitrates change as low as 2! The highest was around 23.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I do not know about Disney+, but all that Netflix did in Europe was to reduce their bitrates by about 25%.

If you enjoyed what you saw with Disney+, then that's all that matters anyway.

Have you signed up to see the quality on Disney+ Vilya? I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on the 4K HDR titles. I haven't checked Netflix so I don't know how much (if at all) the picture quality has changed.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I was referring to our domestic Amazon; I always indicate when I mean Amazon.uk or .fr or .de, etc.

I placed orders with both Amazon.uk and Amazon.fr at the beginning of the month before the pandemic exploded into what it is now and those orders were delivered as expected. I do not plan to order from them again until May and as fast as things are changing I have no idea what to expect tomorrow yet alone that far ahead.

It says April 28th on Amazon UK too but if you go to checkout, it then says March 29th. So, you might get them sooner.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by SCLee

I would love to do a test with you because I honestly don't think you could tell which is which. Maybe sound wise (but then I don't have atmos) but picture wise, I'm not sure you could. Certainly if I swapped out the 4K for the Blu Ray (on certain titles) you'd struggle to see a difference.

The reason to have physical media is the artwork and the extras. There are very few extras for the Star Wars titles on Disney+ but then I rarely watch them anyway. With that said, as I've always had physical media, I struggle to let it go even though it could save me a fortune - £20 - £25 a disc.

Disney+ The picture is crystal clear and super sharp on my television. I've only tried Empire so far but it looked great. Bitrates on discs drop too, while watching Dispicable Me, I saw the bitrates change as low as 2! The highest was around 23.

My experience of streaming (4K ITunes, 4K Netflix) has been a nice crisp picture but on demanding scenes I see issues. Slow pans for example. Also, areas of solid colours in backgrounds are sometimes blocky. I can easily spot artefacts on my projector with less than great quality sources.
Streaming quality is acceptable for the masses but I’m not the masses. I started chasing cinema quality at home, I found it and I ain’t giving it up.

[Steedeel]

I have eight titles in Various states of shipping. Hopefully I get al, by the first week in April.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

My experience of streaming (4K ITunes, 4K Netflix) has been a nice crisp picture but on demanding scenes I see issues. Slow pans for example. Also, areas of solid colours in backgrounds are sometimes blocky. I can easily spot artefacts on my projector with less than great quality sources.
Streaming quality is acceptable for the masses but I’m not the masses. I started chasing cinema quality at home, I found it and I ain’t giving it up.

If that's what you're seeing, then I understand but honestly, that's not what I see. OLED has solid blacks and there is zero artifacts via streaming on my TV. The picture is as crystal clear as UHD disc. Sure disc is better, it has no compression and better bitrates overall, but to me, the difference is small in terms of actual picture quality. And sometimes streaming has Dolby Vision that is not on disc, like the Star Wars films.

However, I do get the appeal of disc as I like artwork, extras and having something on the shelf. But there's no denying streaming is convenient and cheaper!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by SCLee

If that's what you're seeing, then I understand but honestly, that's not what I see. OLED has solid blacks and there is zero artifacts via streaming on my TV. The picture is as crystal clear as UHD disc. Sure disc is better, it has no compression and better bitrates overall, but to me, the difference is small in terms of actual picture quality. And sometimes streaming has Dolby Vision that is not on disc, like the Star Wars films.

However, I do get the appeal of disc as I like artwork, extras and having something on the shelf. But there's no denying streaming is convenient and cheaper!

Well, disc does have compression but I know what you mean.

Didn’t you say you sit 8 feet away from your tv? I can imagine you will see less artefacts at that distance. Doesn't mean they are not there though.

Convenient and cheaper are not two considerations for me. Anything good is with the effort. I mean, it’s incredibly hard work sliding my hand across my shelves and picking s film, popping it in and doing a few minor adjustments. 2 hours of glory for that incredibly small inconvenience.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Well, disc does have compression but I know what you mean.

Didn’t you say you sit 8 feet away from your tv? I can imagine you will see less artefacts at that distance. Doesn't mean they are not there though.

Convenient and cheaper are not two considerations for me. Anything good is with the effort. I mean, it’s incredibly hard work sliding my hand across my shelves and picking s film, popping it in and doing a few minor adjustments. 2 hours of glory for that incredibly small inconvenience.

I do and I don't. In the living room, I do but in the bedroom I can sit as little as three feet away.

I'm lazy, even if I have the Star Wars films on disc, I'll likely just play them on Disney+ instead. The other issue I have is time, after I've watched a film it ends up sitting on the shelf - as there is so much content everywhere. So should I buy a film at £25 or rent it for £4.49? It depends on the film but I do think I should wait for titles like Frozen 2. £24.99 on disc and it comes on Disney+ in July. In the mean time I could rent it, same with Rise of Skywalker.

Even titles like the Bond films, I'm in two minds about, I own the Blu Ray set and so, do I need the 4K versions? Because there are so many other things I could be watching! Hmm... it's a tricky one.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by SCLee

I do and I don't. In the living room, I do but in the bedroom I can sit as little as three feet away.

I'm lazy, even if I have the Star Wars films on disc, I'll likely just play them on Disney+ instead. The other issue I have is time, after I've watched a film it ends up sitting on the shelf - as there is so much content everywhere. So should I buy a film at £25 or rent it for £4.49? It depends on the film but I do think I should wait for titles like Frozen 2. £24.99 on disc and it comes on Disney+ in July. In the mean time I could rent it, same with Rise of Skywalker.

Even titles like the Bond films, I'm in two minds about, I own the Blu Ray set and so, do I need the 4K versions? Because there are so many other things I could be watching! Hmm... it's a tricky one.

All the films I love I like to have to hand in the best quality.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

All the films I love I like to have to hand in the best quality.

You do have them in hand via streaming too. But I get what you're saying and yes, the internet could go down, and they could reduce the bitrates. But if I find that to be the case I will then search out the discs - when they are cheaper. The other thing is, I've noticed in the past that when I sell something, i quickly no longer care about it. It's like a bandaid.

It's like Vinyl, the artwork is amazing and there's something special about putting a record on but I have Alexa and it's convenient and cheap! I have been thinking of collecting Vinyl but it's very expensive compared to the monthly Alexa cost.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by SCLee

You do have them in hand via streaming too. But I get what you're saying and yes, the internet could go down, and they could reduce the bitrates. But if I find that to be the case I will then search out the discs - when they are cheaper.

It's like Vinyl, the artwork is amazing and there's something special about putting a record on but I have Alexa and it's convenient and cheap! I have been thinking of collecting Vinyl but it's very expensive compared to the monthly Alexa cost.

All that stuff is in constant flux though. I like the tried and trusted way. Alexa is not going to compare with separates for example. CD, Vinyl or otherwise.

You have embraced convenience and I love quality. We are never going to meet in the middle!

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

All that stuff is in constant flux though. I like the tried and trusted way. Alexa is not going to compare with separates for example. CD, Vinyl or otherwise.

You have embraced convenience and I love quality. We are never going to meet in the middle!

Ha! Sure but once you go Alexa, you never go back It's like having your own jukebox! It's fun and hours fly by. I do miss the physical music for the artwork and the act of putting it on but it's inconvenient to have discs / records all over the place and the cost would easily add up. Plus I often like individual songs rather than the whole album.

[SCLee]

I did a quick comparison of Toy Story on disc and Disney+ and unsurprisingly the disc won out. The colours are more vibrant on disc and the resolution is better, noticeable on Mr Potato Head and the blue title card at the beginning. On the disc, you can see imperfections (that you're supposed to see) on the Blue title card, on Disney+ the card is all light blue and the imperfections are hard to make out. It just looks smooth.

I mean, it's not night and day, it's a small but definitely noticeable upgrade on the disc.

[Steedeel]

It’s been reported in some quarters that Netflixe’s 4K streams have went from 15Mbps to 7.5 Mbps. Wow, that’s going to be fugly.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by SCLee

[Show spoiler]I did a quick comparison of Toy Story on disc and Disney+ and unsurprisingly the disc won out. The colours are more vibrant on disc and the resolution is better, noticeable on Mr Potato Head and the blue title card at the beginning. On the disc, you can see imperfections (that you're supposed to see) on the Blue title card, on Disney+ the card is all light blue and the imperfections are hard to make out. It just looks smooth.

I mean, it's not night and day, it's a small but definitely noticeable upgrade on the disc.

I won't be getting rid of my Marvel / Disney discs just yet. It's good that I can finally compare streaming with disc, without having to buy expensive 4K titles on digital.

Of course, it's possible Disney have lowered the bitrate (on +) and this is why the resolution / colours aren't as good. Only time will tell.

[flyry]

Have not read the thread bud it just came to me with the new Warner Brothers titles available for purchase today that if we ever went full digital no more cheap codes

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by SCLee

Ha! Sure but once you go Alexa, you never go back

Have had Alexa and Google Mini for sometime now, each has their ±s. The Google Mini has the advantage of casting to my Chromecast Audio devices, one connected to AVR and the other connected to my AVP. Both are connected via S/PDIF Toslink. Most of our music streaming is from Pandora (paid version), AVR and AVP have the Pandora app built in.

Serious music listening is via CD ripped to FLAC files and stored on a Synology NAS.

[Ender14]

Originally Posted by SCLee

Ha! Sure but once you go Alexa, you never go back It's like having your own jukebox! It's fun and hours fly by. I do miss the physical music for the artwork and the act of putting it on but it's inconvenient to have discs / records all over the place and the cost would easily add up. Plus I often like individual songs rather than the whole album.

I may be paranoid but I have avoided Alexa and other voice activated devices because I'm not sure I want an open microphone in my home at all times. WAY too much like 1984 only we did it willingly.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by SCLee

Have you signed up to see the quality on Disney+ Vilya? I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on the 4K HDR titles. I haven't checked Netflix so I don't know how much (if at all) the picture quality has changed.

As I own pretty much every Disney title that I want on disc, I have not felt any need to try them out and nor have my friends; if they had, I'd likely be sharing that streaming account, too.

I have little interest in The Mandalorian, which I refer to as the Baby Yoda Show, so even that offering does nothing to entice me.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

The results that I did get showed a received bit rate that varied from 3.62 Mbps-3.99 Mbps for this HD stream. I have not tried it with any other service or with 4K streamed content yet.

The changes in bit rate most likely from the various adaptive stream rates. All the streams that I have saw are CBR (constant bit rate). Most disc use VBR (variable bit rate) and can vary widely, depends on video content. ATSC and a lot of DVB-S uses CBR but the actual video can be VBR and they insert null packets to make it CBR.

Last night during prime time we watched a Netflix UHD TV show, it went to 15.25 Mbps pretty quick. Next we started another UHD TV show and it never would get above 3 Mbps. So I went to the Netflix network test screen and ran the test and it showed 187 Mbps. Then we selected a 3rd UHD show and it ramped up to 15.25 Mbps pretty quick but like so much of their content it was junk.

Disgusted after wasting quite a few minutes, I grabbed a BD title and watched happily for the rest of the viewing evening.