Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by crutzulee

if you get rid of the HT, then your physical library will not be worth it as you will not reap the A/V benefits

The reason I have a physical library is because I don't want anything to ever be modified or taken away. The A/V benefits are just a bonus.

[crutzulee]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

The reason I have a physical library is because I don't want anything to ever be modified or taken away. The A/V benefits are just a bonus.

At the risk of falling back into bad habits - I once thought like this, but a whole pile of LDs that literally sit on the floor of my HT (see my gallery LOL), for which I have no player, has disabused me of this notion...

75% of what I watch is not worthy of archiving and so an increasing percentage of my viewing is done via streaming. The remaining 25% are comprised of titles that I keep buying over and over in the latest format. I know that I'm in the minority here but I'll take a modern 4K DV enhanced, compressed ATMOS stream over a DVD any day of the week, and, in many instances, over a 1080p Bluray.

There are precious few titles that I'm worried "the man" will change or take away from me...

On a side note, and at the risk of sounding like I'm defending this thread's resident troll, I changed internet providers this week and upgraded to symetrical blah blah,blah. Up here in the great white north, our government heavily subsidizes the infrastructure of the two providers in order to ensure a fairly uniform experience from coast to coast, and to give us the illusion of choice.

After more than 25 years of relatively good service with company R, I got pissed off with some admittedly minor interruptions (that cost me money, and more importantly, time) last week and ,perhaps impulsively, decided to switch to company B. By some coincidence, a fine young cannibal from company B just happened to be going door to door while I was yelling at the poor rep from company R over my slow internet speeds.

Long story short, I'm saving $100 a month and now have a middle tier 3Gbs/1Gbs plan. I can't think of anything that I would need to upload at 1Gbs, and my son's supercomputer is the only thing in the house that has anything faster than a 1Gbs port (he gets a sustained 2.7Gbs on a 2.5 port) but I am coming around to the idea that, when there is a will, there will be a way, to delver uncompressed A/V quality via streaming...

Kaleidoscope is not yet in my price range, but I can see that it, or something streaming like it, will be in my future.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by crutzulee

75% of what I watch is not worthy of archiving... There are precious few titles that I'm worried "the man" will change or take away from me.

I don't make that judgment. Every movie, TV show, video game, and song is precious to someone so I will never support a format that doesn't give people the ability to keep the titles they love. Whether or not I personally think highly of any particular title is irrelevant.

[crutzulee]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

I don't make that judgment. Every movie, TV show, video game, and song is precious to someone so I will never support a format that doesn't give people the ability to keep the titles they love. Whether or not I personally think highly of any particular title is irrelevant.

That's totally cool...but you do realize that your support, or lack thereof, means less than nothing...in fact, if every card carrying member of Blurayforum.com went out and committed to buying 2 new releases a week, it would amount to a mouse's fart worth of needle moving energy.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by crutzulee

That's totally cool...but you do realize that your support, or lack thereof, means less than nothing...in fact, if every card carrying member of Blurayforum.com went out and committed to buying 2 new releases a week, it would amount to a mouse's fart worth of needle moving energy.

I don't know about Blurayforum.com but on Blu-ray.com (the website we are currently on) there are 657,509 members. If we all bought 2 new releases a week at an average of $20 each that would amount to 1.3 billion dollars of revenue. If we also all stopped supporting streaming services that would certainly be enough to make companies rethink releasing titles exclusively on streaming.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

I don't know about Blurayforum.com but on Blu-ray.com (the website we are currently on) there are 657,509 members. If we all bought 2 new releases a week at an average of $20 each that would amount to 1.3 billion dollars of revenue. If we also all stopped supporting streaming services that would certainly be enough to make companies rethink releasing titles exclusively on streaming.

And how many members are going to commit $1000 a year for discs? Just as a comparison, NA households spent $30.3 billion on streaming services for the year 2022.

[PenguinInfinity]

More support for physical media = more titles released on physical media = more titles that can never be modified or taken away.

It doesn't make any difference in the grand scheme of things but it makes a difference for each title that is preserved because of continued support for physical media.

Originally Posted by Guillermo del Toro

Physical copies in the age of streaming are a moral "Fahrenheit 451" level duty.

https://twitter.com/RealGDT/status/1662618182446878721

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

More support for physical media = more titles released on physical media = more titles that can never be modified or taken away.

It doesn't make any difference in the grand scheme of things but it makes a difference for each title that is preserved because of continued support for physical media.



https://twitter.com/RealGDT/status/1662618182446878721

It's a nice theory. Unfortunately disc's downward trend is increasing. Used to be 18% a year. Now approaching over 25%. Did you notice that for the first time ever, the DEG included Disc sales and rentals into a single number for Q1 2023.



Business 101 . . . follow the money.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

It's a nice theory. Unfortunately disc's downward trend is increasing. Used to be 18% a year. Now approaching over 25%. Did you notice that for the first time ever, the DEG included Disc sales and rentals into a single number for Q1 2023.

Business 101 . . . follow the money.

If physical media was really doing as dismally as you make it seem then there wouldn't continue to be thousands of new titles released on disc every year. Physical media never has been and never will be the the most popular form of entertainment but it's still profitable.

There are a small number of people who are willing to spend drastically more on physical media then they ever would on streaming. It makes business sense to continue to cater to those people.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

If physical media was really doing as dismally as you make it seem then there wouldn't continue to be thousands of new titles released on disc every year. Physical media never has been and never will be the the most popular form of entertainment but it's still profitable.

There are a small number of people who are willing to spend drastically more on physical media then they ever would on streaming. It makes business sense to continue to cater to those people.

Most of those new titles are on DVD. Did you know that?



If it's so profitable why are major studios licensing out content to the likes of Mill Creek?

Disc isn't dying - it's a shrinking market. And you know that collectors are driving it. But inflation and high interest rates are taking their toll.

Laserdisc survived here in NA with less than 2 million households supporting it. I would be amazed if there were that many supporting 4K UHD-BD. Maybe less than half.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Most of those new titles are on DVD. Did you know that?

I have no problem with DVD.

If it's so profitable why are major studios licensing out content to the likes of Mill Creek?

If it's so unprofitable then how does Mill Creek continue to make money?

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

I have no problem with DVD.



If it's so unprofitable then how does Mill Creek continue to make money?

Take existing masters and use them to press out a limited run - maybe 3000 copies. It's a small company. Making $50K or $100K is a big deal to them. That is probably Disney's Post-it-Notes yearly budget.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Take existing masters and use them to press out a limited run - maybe 3000 copies. It's a small company. Making $50K or $100K is a big deal to them. That is probably Disney's Post-it-Notes yearly budget.

I would be fine with every movie and TV show getting a limited run release. As long as there are enough physical copies for everyone who wants them (which is obviously a small number of people) then it doesn't matter if it's a huge money maker or not.

Lately titles are disappearing from streaming services because of royalties and that will just get worse and worse. If everything was released on physical media there would be no problem. Everyone with a physical copy can watch it for the rest of their lives and the studios wouldn't have to pay another cent in royalties after the initial sale.

[crutzulee]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

I don't know about Blurayforum.com but on Blu-ray.com (the website we are currently on) there are 657,509 members. If we all bought 2 new releases a week at an average of $20 each that would amount to 1.3 billion dollars of revenue. If we also all stopped supporting streaming services that would certainly be enough to make companies rethink releasing titles exclusively on streaming.

I'm not sure what's worse - you "literally" picking apart my facetious argument with actual math or the fact that you actually think you can spearhead some grassroots movement against streaming and towards physical media.

It's the same tired argument going on in multiple threads. Movie Theaters, physical media and streaming are not going anywhere anytime soon. They will continue to take a shifting piece of the pie untill an equiibrium is reached...for a brief moment..until the next big thing comes along... and then the process starts over.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

I would be fine with every movie and TV show getting a limited run release. As long as there are enough physical copies for everyone who wants them (which is obviously a small number of people) then it doesn't matter if it's a huge money maker or not.

Lately titles are disappearing from streaming services because of residuals and that will just get worse and worse. If everything was released on physical media there would be no problem. Everyone with a physical copy can watch it for the rest of their lives and the studios wouldn't have to pay another cent in residuals.

There was a time when everything did get released on disc. The studios were making more than 2X on disc than what they were making from the BO. But that time has come and gone.

Streaming is the first time big media companies are doing business directly with the end user. They are getting very valuable information like demographics, email addresses and payment types. Thats why they fall under the heading of DTC - Direct To Consumer.

Is Disney going to pull The Mandalorian or any of the Avenger movies? I highly doubt it. So they take off a bunch of money losers. And this month like ALL months, there is new content going on to Disney+ and all the other SVODs.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

There was a time when everything did get released on disc.

Wrong. There was never a time when most TV shows were released on disc.

Is Disney going to pull The Mandalorian or any of the Avenger movies? I highly doubt it. So they take off a bunch of money losers. And this month like ALL months, there is new content going on to Disney+ and all the other SVODs.

They won't pull them anytime soon but that certainly doesn't mean they are safe forever. With anything high budget the royalty payments are also very high. Plenty of titles that are popular now will be unprofitable to stream in the future.

If they are released on disc then the people who still care about them can continue to watch their discs. If they are exclusively available via streaming then they will be completely unavailable when they are pulled from streaming.

No one should ever be unable to watch a movie or TV show they like just because it isn't popular anymore.

[Lee A Stewart]

t

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Wrong. There was never a time when most TV shows were released on disc.

You moved the goal posts - we were talking about movies not TV shows. Back in 2005 one of THE most popular genres were workout videos. Did you know that?

They won't pull them anytime soon but that certainly doesn't mean they are safe forever. With anything high budget the royalty payments are also very high. Plenty of titles that are popular now will be unprofitable to stream in the future.

If disc sales fall low enough do you think the major studios will continue to release them? I don't. Nor do I believe SVODs will remove their "core" content.

If they are released on disc then the people who still care about them can continue to watch their discs. If they are exclusively available via streaming then they will be completely unavailable when they are pulled from streaming.

But the people who still care about them is shrinking. Less and less each quarter. While the number of people paying for SVODs is increasing. These are cold hard facts.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

You moved the goal posts - we were talking about movies not TV shows. Back in 2005 one of THE most popular genres were workout videos. Did you know that?

I was always talking about both movies and TV shows. I believe everything should remain available. If people want to continue watching old workout videos they should be able to. No one should ever be unable to watch anything they enjoy because it has been removed from every source.

If disc sales fall low enough do you think the major studios will continue to release them? I don't.

Which is why it's important to keep buying discs, so that disc sales never fall that drastically low.

Nor do I believe SVODs will remove their "core" content.

Core content is a moving target. Do you really think that core content of today will still be considered core content 20 years from now? The number of hit movies and TV shows that are still popular decades later is extremely small. With TV it's easy to stop showing reruns of the expensive shows that drop in popularity, with streaming the same thing will basically happen: shows that are no longer popular will no longer be available.

But the people who still care about them is shrinking monthly/yearly. Less and less each quarter. While the number of people paying for SVODs is increasing.

With so many people obsessed with subscriptions it doesn't do any harm to release everything on disc. The studios will get a bit of money from collectors, they'll appease every type of customer, and they'll barely lose any subscribers (they may even increase their subscriber base because people will be anxious to watch the next season or sequel).

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

I was always talking about both movies and TV shows. I believe everything should remain available. If people want to continue watching old workout videos they should be able to. No one should ever be unable to watch anything they enjoy because it has been removed from every source.

That is your subjective opinion. In the real world, today and for the foreseeable future, ALL expenses and costs will come under a microscopic.

Which is why it's important to keep buying discs, so that disc sales never fall that drastically low.

But that's not happening. You see the Pie Charts in the PM Sales Thread. They are weekly snapshot views of the disc market. Do they look healthy to you?

Core content is a moving target. Do you really think that core content of today will still be considered core content 20 years from now? The number of hit movies and TV shows that are still popular decades later is extremely small. With TV it was easy to stop showing reruns of the expensive shows that dropped in popularity, with streaming the same thing will basically happen: shows that are no longer popular will no longer be available.

The SVODs have a very important tool: they know EXACTLY how many of their subscribers are watching which particular content. With the emphasis no longer on sub counts and instead on profitability, they will make decisions based on . . . you guessed it . . . FOLLOW THE MONEY. If Star Wars movies don't do well in theaters but they do well as TV shows - Disney will create less movies and more TV shows. That's that they been doing for the last 3 years.

Trying to foretell the future 20 years out . . . that's a fool's errand.

With so many people obsessed with subscriptions it doesn't do any harm to release everything on disc. The studios will get a bit of money from collectors, they'll appease every type of customer, and they'll barely lose any subscribers (they may even increase their subscriber base because people will be anxious to watch the next season or sequel).

You want to see The Mandalorian - no problem. Subscribe to Disney+. And while you are there you can explore other content. I personally found a great series on their Nat Geo section call ed Drain The Oceans. Really enjoyed it.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

The SVODs have a very important tool: they know EXACTLY how many of their subscribers are watching which particular content. With the emphasis no longer on sub counts and instead on profitability, they will make decisions based on . . . you guessed it . . . FOLLOW THE MONEY.

That's exactly the problem. Royalty payments are paid out based on whether or not a title is available regardless of whether it is being watched. When titles stop being watched in high numbers they will be removed from subscriptions and become completely unavailable.

The point of my argument is always to show why streaming is bad for fans of movies and TV shows. I care about the movies and TV shows themselves; I'm not focused on business like you.

Anyone who relies on studios providing ongoing support of every movie and TV show will inevitably lose access to movies and TV shows they like.

You want to see The Mandalorian - no problem. Subscribe to Disney+. And while you are there you can explore other content. I personally found a great series on their Nat Geo section call ed Drain The Oceans. Really enjoyed it.

You want to continue to watch The Mandalorian after it has dropped drastically in popularity? Too bad, it's not profitable for Disney to provide it.