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Old 03-16-2019, 12:41 PM   #2181
Geoff D Geoff D is offline
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Cracking episode. Yes it's all a bit clichťd (
[Show spoiler]Control sounds just like Skynet, a military system designed to help but which decides to wipe out life?
) but it looks so amazing that I'm entranced by the visuals alone.
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Old 03-16-2019, 01:24 PM   #2182
Josep5349 Josep5349 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
Cracking episode. Yes it's all a bit clichťd (
[Show spoiler]Control sounds just like Skynet, a military system designed to help but which decides to wipe out life?
) but it looks so amazing that I'm entranced by the visuals alone.
To be honest Iím perfecly fine if thatís thatís where we end up. Sometimes you canít beat a good old fashioned straight forward sci-fi cliche, particularly when the journey getting there is so enjoyable.
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Old 03-16-2019, 06:02 PM   #2183
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[Show spoiler]That is still my theory, she will be buried in space so preserved and 1000 years in the future the Discovery will recover her and Zora will transfer herself into Airiams body then start travelling back in time as the Red Angel.
I think that theory is spot on.

My only issue with the season is the shoehorning of friendships that should have been built over time. They did this first with Burnham and Saru in his "ganglia-losing" episode.

Now we learn that Tilly, Detmer, and Airiam are besties??? Should that not have been explored just a little in prior episodes?

The daisy chaining of climactic moments in now this show's M.O., and that's okay I suppose, particularly for binge watching, but the climax would have been better served if the depth of the friendship was fully formed over time.
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Old 03-16-2019, 06:05 PM   #2184
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during the opening sequence, the shot of Discovery while on the dark side of the moon was simply
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Old 03-16-2019, 06:31 PM   #2185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Havenbull View Post
I think that theory is spot on.

My only issue with the season is the shoehorning of friendships that should have been built over time. They did this first with Burnham and Saru in his "ganglia-losing" episode.

Now we learn that Tilly, Detmer, and Airiam are besties??? Should that not have been explored just a little in prior episodes?

The daisy chaining of climactic moments in now this show's M.O., and that's okay I suppose, particularly for binge watching, but the climax would have been better served if the depth of the friendship was fully formed over time.

I'll agree with the second group, but Saru/Michael seems pretty well established beforehand as they worked closely together before and after discovery.
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Old 03-16-2019, 06:37 PM   #2186
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It is fair to say had we learned a bit more of Airiam’s personal life prior to this episode then her loss would have probably had even greater emotional impact. Whilst we haven’t had much insight into the Tilly, Detmer, and Airiam dynamic, we have seen them often hanging out and eating together in the mess hall. I think a close friendship is pretty much taken as read. We know by now, from all Star Treks to date, that bridge crew members develop strong friendships. So even if it’s never really been explored in depth on screen, it’s certainly to be expected, particularly after making it through the war together.

Last edited by Josep5349; 03-16-2019 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 03-16-2019, 07:02 PM   #2187
solarrdadd solarrdadd is offline
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and the ending was pure genius, I don't mean what happened, I mean when
[Show spoiler]it went off, no music, no usual colored background, silence and black screen and no preview of the next episode either. like I said, pure genius; it really nailed the impact of the ending.
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Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post
There was a preview.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solarrdadd View Post
what the hell, there wasn't one when I watched it on Amazon Prime! it simply ended and that was it.

i'll have to watch it again. thanks for that heads up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post
Also:
[Show spoiler]While there was no music, there was the sound of ocean waves gently lapping the shore, the sound playing over the end credits. The background noise of Ariam's favorite memory.
I watch this through Amazon Prime so I can get 1080p & 5.1 audio, and I just watched it again and there was NO PREVIEW!

there was the sound of the waves and I did hear that the first and second viewing, but, didn't get it's meaning/importance until you pointed that out.

anybody else watch this via Prime and had the same issue of no preview? this is the first time I've not gotten a "next episode" preview. everything else was fine, both times. for some reason or another, I think what you get from the direct app CBS ALL ACCESS is not getting the same things as CBS ALL ACCESS via Prime example, when I went directly through the ALL ACCESS app the old show After Trek, came on a little while after that nights episode, when I switched to Prime, I would always have to wait until the next day to see After Trek.

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Old 03-16-2019, 07:05 PM   #2188
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Originally Posted by Josep5349 View Post
Although isnít it pretty much as read? We know by know, from all Star Treks to date, that bridge crew members develop strong friendships. So even if itís never really been explored on screen, itís certainly to be expected, particularly after making it through the war together.
I'm aware of that, but if they never visually explore the friendship ala Data/Geordi holodeck Sherlock Holmes, then the subsequent loss of an individual is less impactful.
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Old 03-16-2019, 07:21 PM   #2189
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I'm aware of that, but if they never visually explore the friendship ala Data/Geordi holodeck Sherlock Holmes, then the subsequent loss of an individual is less impactful.
Airiamís fate certainly would have had even more impact had we learned more about her in the lead up to the episode.
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Old 03-16-2019, 07:45 PM   #2190
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Originally Posted by Josep5349 View Post
Airiamís fate certainly would have had even more impact had we learned more about her in the lead up to the episode.
I saw enough in that episode for it to be very impactful. what they gave were very tender emotional moments in her memories over time that let you know how much she interacted with the crew. she did so more than we realized.

I do understand what you mean, but, then you would have had people complaining about "why an episode with so much Airiam in it?" leading up to this one. I'm sure there is probably more about her we will find out, perhaps in other characters flashbacks about her. I don't think they will carry on the next couple of episodes without getting more details about her and her relationship with crewmembers.
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Old 03-16-2019, 07:57 PM   #2191
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Originally Posted by solarrdadd View Post
I saw enough in that episode for it to be very impactful. what they gave were very tender emotional moments in her memories over time that let you know how much she interacted with the crew. she did so more than we realized.

I do understand what you mean, but, then you would have had people complaining about "why an episode with so much Airiam in it?" leading up to this one. I'm sure there is probably more about her we will find out, perhaps in other characters flashbacks about her. I don't think they will carry on the next couple of episodes without getting more details about her and her relationship with crewmembers.
Not so much one episode in the lead up to this one, but rather a more scattered approach through various episodes. And don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying it wasn’t emotional, but undoubtably it would have been even more emotional. I certainly don’t want to come across as negative, what they did was very effective, as as mentioned earlier I didn’t need to see the other friendships develop on sceen for me to buy into the fact they did have a strong friendship.

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Old 03-16-2019, 10:42 PM   #2192
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Personally speaking, I'm kinda loving the turbo-charged aspect of the storytelling and I was literally thinking upon this just the other day, that when the other modern Trek series had to stretch their seasons out over 24 episodes then we ended up having way too many episodes that just meander along and then push the reset button at the end anyway.

It was rare to have proper consequences, and storylines that truly lingered and impacted one season to the next - shout out to all my DS9 homies - and for that alone I'm enjoying Disco a bit too much. It only having 13 episodes means that they have to be somewhat economical with the storytelling and so this isn't like Treks of yore which allowed us to spend ages navel-gazing with whatever lowly officer was needed for the bottle show that week, every episode of Disco is like a dazzling mini-movie unto itself. I complained before about how Disco S1 seemed very choppy, that almost every scene felt very rushed with a very awkward rhythm, and although I still get whiffs of that in S2 from time to time it seems to have settled into itself now.

And yes, I do realise that TOS had upwards of 25 eps a season and never tipped over into indulging itself with every bridge officer's deepest darkest secrets but that was the genius of the show: the driving force was always that trimvirate of Kirk, Spock and McCoy and between them they could usually generate enough sparks to keep the dramatic fires burning, no matter that it wasn't an ongoing serialised storyline. Something that I like about Disco is that it's got a similar kind of focus on Pike, Burnham and Saru, NOT that it's similar in terms of the specific TOS interplay but that these three are the main anchors for the show.

Could we have had more time spent with
[Show spoiler]Airiam
to make the loss more meaningful? Yeah I guess. Am I sorry we didn't? Not for a moment. The needs of the storyline outweighs the needs of the day players.
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Old 03-16-2019, 11:22 PM   #2193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
Personally speaking, I'm kinda loving the turbo-charged aspect of the storytelling and I was literally thinking upon this just the other day, that when the other modern Trek series had to stretch their seasons out over 24 episodes then we ended up having way too many episodes that just meander along and then push the reset button at the end anyway.

It was rare to have proper consequences, and storylines that truly lingered and impacted one season to the next - shout out to all my DS9 homies - and for that alone I'm enjoying Disco a bit too much. It only having 13 episodes means that they have to be somewhat economical with the storytelling and so this isn't like Treks of yore which allowed us to spend ages navel-gazing with whatever lowly officer was needed for the bottle show that week, every episode of Disco is like a dazzling mini-movie unto itself. I complained before about how Disco S1 seemed very choppy, that almost every scene felt very rushed with a very awkward rhythm, and although I still get whiffs of that in S2 from time to time it seems to have settled into itself now.

And yes, I do realise that TOS had upwards of 25 eps a season and never tipped over into indulging itself with every bridge officer's deepest darkest secrets but that was the genius of the show: the driving force was always that trimvirate of Kirk, Spock and McCoy and between them they could usually generate enough sparks to keep the dramatic fires burning, no matter that it wasn't an ongoing serialised storyline. Something that I like about Disco is that it's got a similar kind of focus on Pike, Burnham and Saru, NOT that it's similar in terms of the specific TOS interplay but that these three are the main anchors for the show.

Could we have had more time spent with
[Show spoiler]Airiam
to make the loss more meaningful? Yeah I guess. Am I sorry we didn't? Not for a moment. The needs of the storyline outweighs the needs of the day players.
14 episodes
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Old 03-16-2019, 11:37 PM   #2194
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Considering all the positive vibes in here re. season 2, I'm actually starting to get a little excited to get more info on the Picard series.
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Old 03-16-2019, 11:46 PM   #2195
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14 episodes
Sweet, I get one more!!
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Old 03-17-2019, 09:55 AM   #2196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
Personally speaking, I'm kinda loving the turbo-charged aspect of the storytelling and I was literally thinking upon this just the other day, that when the other modern Trek series had to stretch their seasons out over 24 episodes then we ended up having way too many episodes that just meander along and then push the reset button at the end anyway.

It was rare to have proper consequences, and storylines that truly lingered and impacted one season to the next - shout out to all my DS9 homies - and for that alone I'm enjoying Disco a bit too much. It only having 13 episodes means that they have to be somewhat economical with the storytelling and so this isn't like Treks of yore which allowed us to spend ages navel-gazing with whatever lowly officer was needed for the bottle show that week, every episode of Disco is like a dazzling mini-movie unto itself. I complained before about how Disco S1 seemed very choppy, that almost every scene felt very rushed with a very awkward rhythm, and although I still get whiffs of that in S2 from time to time it seems to have settled into itself now.

And yes, I do realise that TOS had upwards of 25 eps a season and never tipped over into indulging itself with every bridge officer's deepest darkest secrets but that was the genius of the show: the driving force was always that trimvirate of Kirk, Spock and McCoy and between them they could usually generate enough sparks to keep the dramatic fires burning, no matter that it wasn't an ongoing serialised storyline. Something that I like about Disco is that it's got a similar kind of focus on Pike, Burnham and Saru, NOT that it's similar in terms of the specific TOS interplay but that these three are the main anchors for the show.

Could we have had more time spent with
[Show spoiler]Airiam
to make the loss more meaningful? Yeah I guess. Am I sorry we didn't? Not for a moment. The needs of the storyline outweighs the needs of the day players.
This is my sentiments exactly, the need to be economical given the amount of episodes available, which btw has been extended to 14 episodes.
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Old 03-17-2019, 11:18 AM   #2197
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The old 26 episode season format does make for inconsistent seasons overall. Though I suppose at least there’s the option of skipping the non-arcs and fillers when doing a re-watch. DS9 in particular benefits immensely from that. You do need to keep a record of which episodes you can skip though.
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Old Yesterday, 02:46 AM   #2198
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Originally Posted by solarrdadd View Post
I saw enough in that episode for it to be very impactful. what they gave were very tender emotional moments in her memories over time that let you know how much she interacted with the crew. she did so more than we realized.

I do understand what you mean, but, then you would have had people complaining about "why an episode with so much Airiam in it?" leading up to this one. I'm sure there is probably more about her we will find out, perhaps in other characters flashbacks about her. I don't think they will carry on the next couple of episodes without getting more details about her and her relationship with crewmembers.
I can't speak to the current sequence of events. I don't want to spend the money on CBSAA just for this; but once all the S2 eps are out, I'll see about doing a free trial and binging the season instead of waiting for the Blu-ray like I did for S1. But I digress...

What I wanted to say is that Airiam was, during the first season, a complete mystery character. I don't recall them ever even mentioning her name, and only worked out what it must be by watching the cast list at the end of the episodes.

Detmer? Check. Owosekun? Check. But the cyborg person? I really wanted to know what her deal was.

From what people are saying here, it sounds a bit like the NexTrek episode "Skin of Evil", where they shoehorn some backstory about Tasha, and you suddenly go, "OK, things aren't looking to good for her..."
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Old Yesterday, 05:46 AM   #2199
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Originally Posted by jayembee View Post
From what people are saying here, it sounds a bit like the NexTrek episode "Skin of Evil", where they shoehorn some backstory about Tasha, and you suddenly go, "OK, things aren't looking to good for her..."
Yeah, that's pretty much what they did, but even Tasha had more backstory than Airiam did.

And earlier I wasn't even suggesting that they dedicate a whole episode the character building. Heck, they could had Airiam congratulate Tilly her epic half marathon run a few weeks ago, and that would have been better than nothing.
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Old Yesterday, 07:55 AM   #2200
Josep5349 Josep5349 is offline
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From what people are saying here, it sounds a bit like the NexTrek episode "Skin of Evil", where they shoehorn some backstory about Tasha, and you suddenly go, "OK, things aren't looking to good for her..."
No, it’s not comparable to Tasha. She already had her own episode early on in the series (Code of Honor). Even before Code of Honor we learned about the hostile environment she grew in, such as being chased by rape gangs. Subsequent to Code of Honor and throughout the season we did learn more about her and she had a fair amount of interaction with other crew members prior to Skin of Evil.

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