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Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Blu-ray > Blu-ray Technology and Future Technology

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Old 08-30-2007, 08:09 PM   #1
domerdel domerdel is offline
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Exclamation Sources from HD-DVD camp: looking for counter arguments

Here's what they had to say about BD


-----------------
The manufacturing yield rates on BD50 (the 50GB discs) are only 40% from Sony manufacturers and down to 10% yields on non-Sony manufacturers. That means only one in 10 discs made by a non-Sony plant works as a BD50 disc. This in turn leads to higher costs.

BD1.1 player spec is hard to develop for, leading the only BD1.1 player to be delayed until Q2 2008.

BD-J, the language they use for special features on discs, is horrible to program for, as we saw already.

PS3 sales are only 1/4 as much as the 6 million target.

At least one studio unhappy with Blu-ray.


------------

can we do a counter attack on these items please?
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Old 08-30-2007, 08:11 PM   #2
groovyone groovyone is offline
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https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=15309
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Old 08-30-2007, 08:22 PM   #3
domerdel domerdel is offline
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thank you!
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Old 08-30-2007, 08:29 PM   #4
groovyone groovyone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domerdel View Post
thank you!

No prob. I read the same 'article' with much irritation!
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Old 08-30-2007, 08:49 PM   #5
CptGreedle CptGreedle is offline
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Well for one, any feedback on the difficulty of developing for BD1.1 is premature. Also, there will be players out this year that will support it. Even the PS3 is planning to support it. Not to mention how difficult is it to program for HDi since it was offered to the BDA as a viable option for interactivity, and they rejected it saying it was not worth the trouble of changing since they were so similar to begin with.

As for the price of the discs to manufacture, that is total BS! No company would allow such a high percent or error.. oh wait.. I forgot.. Micro$oft does. Well then you can say if it did, why are 60% of the releases this year on the BD50 format and there have been no recalls and the average prices of the discs are less than HD-DVDs (www.productwars.com/dvd).

As for BD-j, it is JAVA based by Sun systems. It is probably easier to program for since it is a universal language that is designed to work on more than just a proprietary system. HDi, if it was made standard, would be made not to run on Macintosh or Linux systems, mainly cause Micro$oft wants to hurt their main competition, Apple and Quicktime. It is a proprietary language that is controlled by Micro$oft.

Even 1/4 of the 6 million targets is still more than all the HD-DVD players.

At least one studio that is willing to take $150 million to support HD-DVD and 7 that are happy with Blu-ray without any financial incentive. (or whatever the number is)
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Old 08-30-2007, 08:58 PM   #6
Blu-Ray Buckeye Blu-Ray Buckeye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domerdel View Post
PS3 sales are only 1/4 as much as the 6 million target.
Considering that Sony has already shipped more than 6MM units and actual sales are pushing 5MM, the claims of 1.5MM (1/4 of 6) seem to be way, way off. The only console horribly missing the predictions is the 360, and by a wide margin.
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Old 08-30-2007, 09:10 PM   #7
Wiz13688 Wiz13688 is offline
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Why would any of that matter to a consumer end user as long as it doesn't impact my purchase cost? I just took a quick look on Amazon,com.

300 Blu-ray $23.95
300 HD-DVD/DVD $27.95

The Departed Blu-ray $23.95
The Departed HD-DVD/DVD $27.95

Planet Earth Blu-ray/HD-DVD $66.95 Same

Blade Runner 5 disc Blu-ray/HD-DVD $27.95 Same

HD-DVD, if anything, actually cost more in some case and the same in most. Since all these supposed problems are not costing the consumer a dime, why should they give a damn.
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Old 08-30-2007, 09:13 PM   #8
doctorD doctorD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CptGreedle View Post
Well for one, any feedback on the difficulty of developing for BD1.1 is premature. Also, there will be players out this year that will support it. Even the PS3 is planning to support it. Not to mention how difficult is it to program for HDi since it was offered to the BDA as a viable option for interactivity, and they rejected it saying it was not worth the trouble of changing since they were so similar to begin with.

As for the price of the discs to manufacture, that is total BS! No company would allow such a high percent or error.. oh wait.. I forgot.. Micro$oft does. Well then you can say if it did, why are 60% of the releases this year on the BD50 format and there have been no recalls and the average prices of the discs are less than HD-DVDs (www.productwars.com/dvd).

As for BD-j, it is JAVA based by Sun systems. It is probably easier to program for since it is a universal language that is designed to work on more than just a proprietary system. HDi, if it was made standard, would be made not to run on Macintosh or Linux systems, mainly cause Micro$oft wants to hurt their main competition, Apple and Quicktime. It is a proprietary language that is controlled by Micro$oft.

Even 1/4 of the 6 million targets is still more than all the HD-DVD players.

At least one studio that is willing to take $150 million to support HD-DVD and 7 that are happy with Blu-ray without any financial incentive. (or whatever the number is)
CptGreedle...I couldn't have put it any better! Anybody trying to state that Java is difficult to write code for is probably reading stuff off of the wall. If a developer is feeding this info then they are full of it and probably a HD DVD fanboy spreading FUD!

M$ is up to their old tricks again...but trying to do it Secret Squirrel style.

Last edited by doctorD; 08-30-2007 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 08-30-2007, 09:55 PM   #9
CapiCoo CapiCoo is offline
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That should easily end that arguement. Very well put!
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Old 08-30-2007, 09:59 PM   #10
theknub theknub is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorD View Post
M$ is up to their old tricks again...but trying to do it Secret Squirrel style.


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Old 08-30-2007, 10:08 PM   #11
dialog_gvf dialog_gvf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domerdel View Post
PS3 sales are only 1/4 as much as the 6 million target.
When was a 6 million North American target ever stated, except maybe before the release was delayed in Spring 2006?

Sony targetted 6 million shipped for end of March 2007. They shipped 5.5 million.

Gary
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Old 08-30-2007, 10:10 PM   #12
Banjo Banjo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domerdel View Post
At least one studio unhappy with Blu-ray.
What studio would that be?
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Old 08-30-2007, 10:10 PM   #13
Teazle Teazle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domerdel View Post
The manufacturing yield rates on BD50 (the 50GB discs) are only 40% from Sony manufacturers and down to 10% yields on non-Sony manufacturers. That means only one in 10 discs made by a non-Sony plant works as a BD50 disc.
1) Is this claim true?
2) Even if it's true, how do BD50 yields compare to those for double-layer HD-DVDs?

They are saying that BD50s aren't economical in volume? The fact that we are hearing this fundamental objection so late in the game raises the suspicion that it's baseless. I hope the insiders lay this one to rest after the weekend.
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Old 08-30-2007, 10:17 PM   #14
dialog_gvf dialog_gvf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domerdel View Post
• The manufacturing yield rates on BD50 (the 50GB discs) are only 40% from Sony manufacturers and down to 10% yields on non-Sony manufacturers. That means only one in 10 discs made by a non-Sony plant works as a BD50 disc. This in turn leads to higher costs.

• BD1.1 player spec is hard to develop for, leading the only BD1.1 player to be delayed until Q2 2008.

• BD-J, the language they use for special features on discs, is horrible to program for, as we saw already.

• PS3 sales are only 1/4 as much as the 6 million target.

• At least one studio unhappy with Blu-ray.
For fun, let me present the response for HD DVD:

• The real world failure rate for combo discs approaches 15%. That means 15% of consumers are forced to exchange discs in hopes of getting one that works, or attempt drastic adhoc methods (like boiling the disc) to get the discs to play.

• HDi is so CPU intensive that it requires a minimum 900MHz processor, which has become the most expensive component in an HD DVD player. Toshiba decks use 2.2Ghz processors. What will the performance of the Venturer ultra-cheap be?

• HD DVD player sales are less than 1/10 the initial 2 million target.

• At least one studio is unhappy with HD DVD.

Last edited by dialog_gvf; 08-30-2007 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 08-30-2007, 10:30 PM   #15
atdm71 atdm71 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dialog_gvf View Post
For fun, let me present the response for HD DVD:

The real world failure rate for combo discs approaches 15%. That means 15% of consumers are forced to exchange discs in hopes of getting one that works, or attempt drastic adhoc methods (like boiling the disc) to get the discs to play.

HDi is so CPU intensive that it requires a minimum 900MHz processor, which has become the most expensive component in an HD DVD player. Toshiba decks use 2.2Ghz processors. What will the performance of the Venturer ultra-cheap be?

HD DVD player sales are less than 1/10 the initial 2 million target.

At least one studio is unhappy with HD DVD.
My vote for post of the month.
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Old 08-30-2007, 10:32 PM   #16
TruBlu2 TruBlu2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domerdel View Post
Here's what they had to say about BD


-----------------
The manufacturing yield rates on BD50 (the 50GB discs) are only 40% from Sony manufacturers and down to 10% yields on non-Sony manufacturers. That means only one in 10 discs made by a non-Sony plant works as a BD50 disc. This in turn leads to higher costs.

BD1.1 player spec is hard to develop for, leading the only BD1.1 player to be delayed until Q2 2008.

BD-J, the language they use for special features on discs, is horrible to program for, as we saw already.

PS3 sales are only 1/4 as much as the 6 million target.

At least one studio unhappy with Blu-ray.


------------

can we do a counter attack on these items please?
BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!!!!!!!!!!

I believe NONE of it!!!!!! hddvd bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What studio is unhappy with BD? wimpylittlehill?
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