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Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Home Theater > Home Theater General Discussion

View Poll Results: Do you still watch laserdiscs?
Yes, I still watch my laserdiscs. 409 55.87%
No, I was an LD user, but I no longer watch laserdiscs. 323 44.13%
Voters: 732. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-02-2022, 01:26 AM   #4841
uncledougie uncledougie is offline
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Default Pink Floyd The Wall Laserdisc

[QUOTE=bludarkknight;20238297]a friend and his girly friends said . do i have "pink floyd the wall" ? no i don't why ? we like to hear that on your sound system ? okay , i see what i can do .

so i started looking for THX/AC-3 laserdisc and yet prices was silly really silly high

"pink floyd the wall" 1982 was the fourth 70mm Dolby Stereo to use split-surrounds format 43 . only few handful of 70mm Dolby Stereo mag split-surrounds ever produced .

Pink Floyd The Wall was the go to laserdisc to show off my laserdisc audio/video setup. It never failed to impress whoever it was shown to, even though most everyone was in the dark about how much laserdiscs at the time could improve the viewing experience - my old Mitsubishi tube TV and the sound running through my Pioneer QX-747 receiver was a killer combination in its day. Loved it!

Last edited by uncledougie; 07-02-2022 at 01:33 AM.
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Old 07-02-2022, 02:59 AM   #4842
bludarkknight bludarkknight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfmarine View Post
So I went out and got a new receiver today. It's just a basic 5-channel Denon.


The menu is horrible though and severely in need of a refresh. I am still trying to get the video to show up but they don't make it easy. I hooked the optical up no problem and popped in The Lost World as the sound is the main issue I am having.

It's still doing the same damn thing--even with the new receiver. DTS light coming on and off. So I assume Lost World is a rotter which is very unfortunate.

I popped in Casper and it seemed to actually play better this time around but about halfway through it acted up again.

Jurassic Park still plays perfectly.

Looks like it's either a rot issue or something internal with my player but I still don't understand why the player would play certain DTS fine while others act up. The plot thickens.

Only real way to tell now is on a different player with AC3 and I have none that are working. This whole situation has me burned out.
so you have bundles of 7020 and they are all not playing laserdisc flawlessly ?
it's Pioneer CLD 97 .
get pioneer DVL-909 or DVL-919 they may play with no snags .

have you done longer videos of the snags ? when doing vidoe don't press stop , press pause , that way you can resume record and get a long more detailed video as i'm puzzed as why you have those macintosh gear and it's not even playing without issues ?

get a legit pioneer laserdisc player . DVL-909 or DVL-919 (cheaply and in working order)

also have you played other laserdisc on them as they are mostly PCM and if they had some snags with audio then something is broken with those players .
also does CD compact disc have same snags as CD is PCM . also have you played Laserdisc and used remote to switch to analogue and does it have the same snags as the PCM audio ?

also these new AVR are rubbish if Laserdisc video connected to AVR and AVR uses HDMI to oled and video projector the video signal may go "black screen" now and then , maybe ? as the video signal is analogue , it may do same on uhd player with video signal . all i know is the new AVR today are rubbish . the other AVR's before all this atmos rubbish , never had this snag , expect for rubbish HDMI -onkyo AVR that overheated so hot you could slowly fry an egg on the HDMI-video board .

oh , one more thing .
do you have any dts CD do they have same snag ? i find it unlikely rare that those dts Laserdiscs would have laser-rot and even if mild-laser-rot i doubt it be the dts on LD would be acting up . seems like dodgy faulty mcintosh is the snag here . get legit Pioneer DVL-909 , 919 and be a good boy , don't do any bad things as it seems the gods are angry and jinking you're Laserdisc pleasures to me ? or you have a poltergeist/gremlin in those macintosh LD players ? weird this is ?
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Old 07-02-2022, 03:01 AM   #4843
Vanguard Vanguard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfmarine View Post
So I went out and got a new receiver today. It's just a basic 5-channel Denon.

The menu is horrible though and severely in need of a refresh. I am still trying to get the video to show up but they don't make it easy. I hooked the optical up no problem and popped in The Lost World as the sound is the main issue I am having.

It's still doing the same damn thing--even with the new receiver. DTS light coming on and off. So I assume Lost World is a rotter which is very unfortunate.

I popped in Casper and it seemed to actually play better this time around but about halfway through it acted up again.

Jurassic Park still plays perfectly.

Looks like it's either a rot issue or something internal with my player but I still don't understand why the player would play certain DTS fine while others act up. The plot thickens.

Only real way to tell now is on a different player with AC3 and I have none that are working. This whole situation has me burned out.
Are you able to output the audio via coaxial instead of optical? It should not matter, but its worth a shot. Can definitely rule out the receiver. Either it is the player, the actual optical port or a string of rotted discs . Testing the coaxial port would confirm.

Is DTS processed differently in the player versus other formats? One would think a DTS digital track would function the same as LPCM digital track.

If you are on the hunt for a cheap DTS disc, Kingpin(1998) ML107092 is cheaper than most DTS discs, though far from demo material.(Funny as hell though )

Last edited by Vanguard; 07-02-2022 at 03:14 AM. Reason: Disc
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Old 07-02-2022, 03:21 AM   #4844
bludarkknight bludarkknight is offline
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i have dementia not sure coaxial output supports dts that way . it should it's digital signal of ones and zeros ? but maybe worth try . i always use optical for some Dolby Stereo 4.2.4 or dts . coaxial RF to the demodulator for AC-3 , thou personally use optical output from the RF demodulator the signal won't get interrupted with electrical fridge , switching a light On/Off .
also i use the L R outputs as well for digital and analogue tracks to inputs of legitimate Dolby Stereo MP cinema decoders .

i recall when earlier DVD players in late 1990 to just around early 2000's had dts snags with certain AVP AVR where no dts signal was locked on . the snag was to do with actual chips in the AVP AVR at the time . now that snag has been resolved a few years into early 2000's .
also have tried a millennium dts 2,4,6 decoder ? i still have one not in use as no need for it to be in use now . but still have it and a rare dts CAD 5 i have that works fine on my players but only tested never fully installed it and looks cool .

these are extremely rare dts professional decoders you won't see many of these around . if i could make some rack space i would have it installed , only installed into the rack with optical lead connected . it has no fader on them , which means has to be connected to say my input of Dolby Stereo CP200 then could only be used as 6 channel , as it supports dts-ES 6.1 via AUX 1 AuX 2 of the same signal ? typical ? or could be connected to the input of the Denon AVC-X8500H and use the 8 eight outputs technically speaking 7 outputs as AUX 1 2 are same signal , so its not like dts-ES 7.1 now . these manufacturers made it so confusing like AVR that have 7.2 that is a lie there is no ".2" unless some say some Atmos discs have .2 sw channels ?
[Show spoiler]

[Show spoiler]

Last edited by bludarkknight; 07-02-2022 at 04:06 AM.
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Old 07-02-2022, 03:43 AM   #4845
bludarkknight bludarkknight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfmarine View Post
Right...the video plays fine and the LD player shows it's tracking fine. It really boggles my mind.

Made a short video for ya'll.
Laserdisc DTS problem - YouTube

Lost World played fine with my previous receiver which is why I'm starting to think it's a receiver issue. Just so strange that it plays Jurassic Park with no issue. Someone said it's disc rot but i agree it's more like audio rot but it's oddly strange to have it occur on all the discs.
watching your video for 5th time , puzzled ? get Pioneer DVL-909 919 cheap and working 100% from seller with 100% feedback .

that pressing has no reports of laser rot dts usa

dts japan no laser rot reported

Last edited by bludarkknight; 07-02-2022 at 04:06 AM.
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Old 07-02-2022, 03:53 AM   #4846
bludarkknight bludarkknight is offline
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Sam , culturedog take on dts
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Old 07-02-2022, 04:00 AM   #4847
Vanguard Vanguard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bludarkknight View Post
i have dementia not sure coaxial output supports dts that way .
At least on my Pioneer Elite CLD-79 connected directly into a Sony STR-DH790 receiver with coaxial, it played my only DTS disc just fine. Kingpin.

As well all know, LaserDisc players can wildly differ in terms of quality. Though McIntosh has always put out extremely high quality products, right up there with Theta.

Nothing more frustrating than having some beautiful equipment that does not work. Best looking dust collectors around!

Also, pro tip 'bludarkknight', wrap your images in a spoiler tag, so it takes up less space on the webpage. Keeps it cleaner looking, and helps those on mobile to not have to scroll so much.

Last edited by Vanguard; 07-02-2022 at 04:03 AM. Reason: Typo
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Old 07-02-2022, 04:10 AM   #4848
bludarkknight bludarkknight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanguard View Post
At least on my Pioneer Elite CLD-79 connected directly into a Sony STR-DH790 receiver with coaxial, it played my only DTS disc just fine. Kingpin.

As well all know, LaserDisc players can wildly differ in terms of quality. Though McIntosh has always put out extremely high quality products, right up there with Theta.

Nothing more frustrating than having some beautiful equipment that does not work. Best looking dust collectors around!

Also, pro tip 'bludarkknight', wrap your images in a spoiler tag, so it takes up less space on the webpage. Keeps it cleaner looking, and helps those on mobile to not have to scroll so much.
oh , it makes it shhh spoiler secret it does .

maybe there is electrical noise floating around that is interfering with the dts signal with those macintosh LD players ?

oh , also get chromebook laptop then far easier to scroll and better keyboard for faster typing .

Last edited by bludarkknight; 07-02-2022 at 04:14 AM.
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Old 07-02-2022, 05:44 PM   #4849
sfmarine sfmarine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanguard View Post
Are you able to output the audio via coaxial instead of optical? It should not matter, but its worth a shot. Can definitely rule out the receiver. Either it is the player, the actual optical port or a string of rotted discs . Testing the coaxial port would confirm.

Is DTS processed differently in the player versus other formats? One would think a DTS digital track would function the same as LPCM digital track.

If you are on the hunt for a cheap DTS disc, Kingpin(1998) ML107092 is cheaper than most DTS discs, though far from demo material.(Funny as hell though )
I have a busy afternoon today but just wanted to update the thread on my lovely DTS issue as I've been troubleshooting like crazy. I did not think of trying Coax digital. Unfortunately it still persisted using that method as well.

So the final thing left is really to test it on another player. I did that this afternoon and got FULL DTS LOCK on Lost World! It's not a rotter! I even tested it on both receiver. So my receiver is not broken and my discs are not rotted. It's the freaking McIntosh!

Such a bizarre occurrence because it freaking plays Jurassic Park fine along with DTS CDs-which lead me to believe the player was fine. Also has no issue or breakup using the normal digital stereo out.

Feeling like this now and need a drink. Sad my player is somewhat broken but at least I know.


bludarkknight - Andy --I'll catch up with you later this weekend. I really appreciate you helping me out and suggesting certain methods to narrow things down..

Last edited by sfmarine; 07-02-2022 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 07-02-2022, 09:26 PM   #4850
captainsolo captainsolo is offline
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What you're describing sounds like RF level issues. I had this same problem with my first DTS discs and my original d702 player which had weak rf levels. I was able to use an internal switch to pull them back up slightly-but for DTS I had to wait until I got a perfectly working player to enjoy them. Basically if there's any rf level variation at all dts LDs will make your player freak out and eventually drop out audio entirely until you play non dts discs.
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Old 07-02-2022, 10:54 PM   #4851
danny24 danny24 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfmarine View Post
I have a busy afternoon today but just wanted to update the thread on my lovely DTS issue as I've been troubleshooting like crazy. I did not think of trying Coax digital. Unfortunately it still persisted using that method as well.

So the final thing left is really to test it on another player. I did that this afternoon and got FULL DTS LOCK on Lost World! It's not a rotter! I even tested it on both receiver. So my receiver is not broken and my discs are not rotted. It's the freaking McIntosh!

Such a bizarre occurrence because it freaking plays Jurassic Park fine along with DTS CDs-which lead me to believe the player was fine. Also has no issue or breakup using the normal digital stereo out.

Feeling like this now and need a drink. Sad my player is somewhat broken but at least I know.


bludarkknight - Andy --I'll catch up with you later this weekend. I really appreciate you helping me out and suggesting certain methods to narrow things down..
So it was the 7020 the whole time. hmmm. It's not really broken but it just hates DTS discs obviously.

Wouldn't we all love to own a Pioneer HDL-X0 though. Likely the best LD player ever made even if the 7020 is flashier and pretty decent itself.
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Old 07-03-2022, 05:08 AM   #4852
Vanguard Vanguard is offline
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Wow, that is wild. I guess congrats on finding the root problem?

Sorry it is an awful outcome. Is it even possible to fix?

At least give her a hug, tell her she is a good girl and you are not mad
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Old 07-04-2022, 02:12 AM   #4853
Pondosinatra Pondosinatra is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danny24 View Post
...

Wouldn't we all love to own a Pioneer HDL-X0 though. Likely the best LD player ever made even if the 7020 is flashier and pretty decent itself.
I prefer my X9, autoflip is dandy. Plus I dig the champagne colour.
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Old 07-04-2022, 01:49 PM   #4854
sfmarine sfmarine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainsolo View Post
What you're describing sounds like RF level issues. I had this same problem with my first DTS discs and my original d702 player which had weak rf levels. I was able to use an internal switch to pull them back up slightly-but for DTS I had to wait until I got a perfectly working player to enjoy them. Basically if there's any rf level variation at all dts LDs will make your player freak out and eventually drop out audio entirely until you play non dts discs.
Sounds about right that you need a perfectly working player to enjoy DTS discs. I suppose I would've noticed it a lot sooner had I purchased more DTS discs. It is strange how The Lost World played fine initially when I got it in '19 but the player clearly has issues now. Freaking out is a perfect description. It just goes crazy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danny24 View Post
So it was the 7020 the whole time. hmmm. It's not really broken but it just hates DTS discs obviously.

Wouldn't we all love to own a Pioneer HDL-X0 though. Likely the best LD player ever made even if the 7020 is flashier and pretty decent itself.
Crazy isn't it? I thought it was my freaking receiver but at least I have it figured out now.

Yeah...it's not broken but definitely anti-DTS haha. I disconnected it for the time being. I had the opportunity to purchase a Pioneer X0 a few years ago. Wish I went for it. 7020 is definitely flashier but under the hood it's nothing special. I've owned three 7020's now and all of them had issues. They're like a Ferrari. Very attractive but way too much maintenance and unreliable. If they still made parts for it, then sure but at this point... I would not recommend the player to anyone. I know you just got a 7020, but I hope you don't run into any of the issues I've encountered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanguard View Post
Wow, that is wild. I guess congrats on finding the root problem?

Sorry it is an awful outcome. Is it even possible to fix?

At least give her a hug, tell her she is a good girl and you are not mad
lol...Yeah I'm not mad but definitely frustrated. Like Danny said...it's not broken in terms of spinning and flipping. It just hates DTS.

I'm sure it's possible to fix it. If I understood captainsolo and Kurtis correctly- it's not though or at least not worth the trouble debugging.

Here's what Kurtis said on LDDB. He is definitely on point as he said I'll have audio dropouts way before video and that is so true. The video portion is fine.

Quote:
If you take an oscilloscope and watch the RF coming from the laser you will see it returns various strengths off the disc. If the signal is just a little weak the digital decoding for the sound (this is where the DTS is also placed) will start to have dropouts way before you see any dropouts in the video. You can completely loose the digital tracks and the video still looks fine. You can open the player, adjust the RF level and experience this on any player.

With LD all discs are NOT pressed equally, normally a calibrated player is adjusted properly and these variations in RF signal will not cause dropouts but if the RF signal from the laser is weakening in the laser or electronics then the variations in the signal can cause dropouts, and YES some discs can play fine and others have dropouts.

The 7020 is a repackaged Pioneer CLD-97 (no McIntosh improvements, just many have an AC-3 board added and in a McIntosh package) and many of these have a problem with age where the signal in the unit signal degrades with time and they eventually totally stop playing. This is not the actual laser failing but somewhere in the electronics there is a failure, I have not had the time to trace the issue but I'm afraid it's going to be one of the IC's as I've done full cap replacement on the mainboard with no help.
So where do I go from here? I would like to test out the AC-3 functionality of the player, but I do not have a demodulator, so that's my next move. Kurtis said The AC-3 is on the right analog audio track which can still be good when the digital starts dropping out so it could still work but he's never tested that scenario. The main reason I bought the 7020 was for the daggone AC-3. If I can enjoy that feature then at least all will not be lost.
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Old 07-04-2022, 03:27 PM   #4855
Vanguard Vanguard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfmarine View Post

So where do I go from here? I would like to test out the AC-3 functionality of the player, but I do not have a demodulator, so that's my next move. Kurtis said The AC-3 is on the right analog audio track which can still be good when the digital starts dropping out so it could still work but he's never tested that scenario. The main reason I bought the 7020 was for the daggone AC-3. If I can enjoy that feature then at least all will not be lost.
Correct, AC-3 Dolby Digital is stored on the right analog channel, to allow a 'regular' digital track to still exist, and a simple analog track on the left channel if you are still rocking some early 80s player. Should be entirely separate from the DTS debacle.

As long as you have a cable plugged into the AC-3 out port, and its on a device that can accept it, the player will default to the AC-3 track. At least I have never had to manually change it. If the player does not support AC-3, or the cable is unplugged, it will default to the digital track. Any coax cable is fine to use.

In case you were unaware, here is a very good list of known AC-3 compatible equipment. https://www.avsforum.com/threads/lis...o-gear.652457/
Though most has been compiled at LDDB in their hardware section, a bit cleaner and with corresponding pictures: https://www.lddb.com/hardware/part/ac3rf/

Stick with a AC-3 Decoder or Demodulator. Preferably one with a Digital Out to plug into your favorite AVR. The most popular models are the Sony, Pioneer and Yamaha Demodulators. They are super small, and only do AC-3 demodulation. Expensive though. McIntosh did produce a nice looking Demodulator, the RFD2. Rare as hell though.

I ended up getting a Sony SDP-E800 Decoder. Cheapest device I could find at the time, though way overkill for just doing AC-3 demodulation.
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Old 07-04-2022, 04:11 PM   #4856
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Thanks for those useful links. I was unaware of the McIntosh demod, but I'm sure it is rare and overpriced. --None listed on ebay. One did sell for $225 a few months ago but it was only for parts.

Hoping the AC-3 work around will breathe new life into my player and as you said..it's separate from DTS, so I should be ok.

I've actually been on the hunt for the E800 but there are none currently on Ebay. You did say it's overkill so maybe go for the EP9?

If the AC-3 does end up working once I get the right equipment I guess I'll run the McIntosh for AC-3 releases until maybe I can find someone to install the AC-3 output on my s2.
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Old 07-04-2022, 09:37 PM   #4857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfmarine View Post

I've actually been on the hunt for the E800 but there are none currently on Ebay. You did say it's overkill so maybe go for the EP9?

If the AC-3 does end up working once I get the right equipment I guess I'll run the McIntosh for AC-3 releases until maybe I can find someone to install the AC-3 output on my s2.
Oh yeah, the EP9ES would be good. See one on eBay right now for $150, which is about what I paid for the E800. No remote is necessary, as it looks like it has a handy dedicated AC-3 button right on front to switch to that input.
Looks like the only difference between the E800 and the EP9 is that the EP9 lacks composite inputs. But for the price, it will be ready if you ever need to plug in additional equipment that uses optical, then it can simply pass them through to the AVR.

Finally looked up the Pioneer LD-S2. What a thing of beauty! Looks like it could survive a tank rolling over it too

Last edited by Vanguard; 07-04-2022 at 09:46 PM. Reason: S2
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Old 07-04-2022, 10:24 PM   #4858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanguard View Post
Oh yeah, the EP9ES would be good. See one on eBay right now for $150, which is about what I paid for the E800. No remote is necessary, as it looks like it has a handy dedicated AC-3 button right on front to switch to that input.
Looks like the only difference between the E800 and the EP9 is that the EP9 lacks composite inputs. But for the price, it will be ready if you ever need to plug in additional equipment that uses optical, then it can simply pass them through to the AVR.

Finally looked up the Pioneer LD-S2. What a thing of beauty! Looks like it could survive a tank rolling over it too
Im going to hold out for a bit to see if any E800s pop up as that would be my preferred choice. Ill likely settle for the EP9 though.

The S2 is literally theft-proof. Aint nobody gonna haul that sucker out of my house unless they're Thor. Sucker has a cast iron baseplate & weighs 75lbs lol!

The S2 is just a dedicated single-sided player and it only plays LDs which = less parts/components to break! Its worked well for me so far. Ive owned it a few years now.
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Old 07-05-2022, 11:50 AM   #4859
Pondosinatra Pondosinatra is offline
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Parts for sale (not my listing)...

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/295078612769...&segname=11021
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Old 07-09-2022, 02:47 AM   #4860
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Thought this would be fun to share.
Finally got both House 3 and 4

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