Epson EH-LS12000B or Optoma UHZ65LV?

[dazkyl]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

HDR10+ only gives the projector a better picture quality when native HDR10+ content is watched from 4K Blu-ray discs and streaming. There are a total of 93 HDR10+ 4K Blu-ray titles in existance. When it comes to streaming Paramount+, Amazon Prime video, Hulu, Google Play, YouTube and others use HDR10+. JVC has deeper blacks then the Sony with JVC native contrast ratio of 40,000 :1.

https://hdr10plus.org/hdr10-content/

It also depends on how long you are planning on keeping your projector. If you plan on upgrading to a native 8K LCOS model in 5 years you might want to get the low cost entry level Sony model. If you plan on keeping your projector for 10 years or more then I would go with the JVC DLA-NZ7 or a higher end JVC model.

Hi again,

i found a good deal on the Sony VPL-XW7000ES. They offered me the same price as the JVC NZ7.

Can you give your opinion and suggestion please?

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by dazkyl

Hi again,

i found a good deal on the Sony VPL-XW7000ES. They offered me the same price as the JVC NZ7.

Can you give your opinion and suggestion please?

The Sony VPL—XW7000ES list price is $27,999.99 and the only two Sony projectors better then that is the Sony VPL-GTZ380 with 10,000 lumens for $80,000 and the Sony VPL-VW5000ES with 5,000 lumens for $60,000 (on sale for $45,000).

The $27,999.99 Sony VPL-XW7000ES has a 3,200 lumens native 4K light engine with standard HDR10. However the JVC DLA-NZ9 and JVC DLA-ES4100 for $25,999.95 are better projectors with a better picture quality. The JVC DLA-NZ9 and JVC DLA-ES4100 are JVC’s flagship models with 3,000 lumens, HDR10+ and deep black levels with a contrast ratio of 100,000:1. Plus native 8K input with native 4K with 8K e-shift. The only real advantage of the Sony VPL-WV7000ES is the 3,200 lumens output over the JVC 3,000 lumens output.

https://www.jvc.com/usa/projectors/procision/dla-nz9/

For LCOS projectors under $30,000 the JVC models are better then the Sony. But when it comes to projectors where one needs 10,000 lumens output like the $80,000 Sony VPL-GTZ380 or 5,000 lumens Sony VPL-VW5000ES for $60,000 (on sale for $45,000), then Sony is the best since JVC is not able to offer models with that much brightness. So Sony is King of LCOS projectors over $30,000 if one needs a lot of lumens output but JVC is King for LCOS picture quality when it comes to better HDR, deeper blacks and higher contrast ratio. It is too bad no Sony projector offers Dolby Vision HDR or HDR10+, since those high-end Sony models would be ideal with better HDR modes.

If you can get a new or used Sony VPL-XW7000ES for around $10,999.95 instead of $27,999.99, then that is a excellent deal. That might be a clearance price since that model might be out of production as Sony introduces newer models this year.

[dazkyl]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

The Sony VPL—XW7000ES list price is $27,999.99 and the only two Sony projector better then that is the Sony VPL-GTZ380 with 10,000 lumens for $80,000 and the Sony VPL-VW5000ES with 5,000 lumens for $60,000 (on sale for $45,000).

The $27,999.99 Sony VPL-XW7000ES has a 3,200 lumens native 4K light engine with standard HDR10. However the JVC DLA-NZ9 and JVC DLA-ES4100 for $25,999.95 are better projectors with a better picture quality. The JVC DLA-NZ9 and JVC DLA-ES4100 are JVC’s flagship models with 3,000 lumens, HDR10+ and deep black levels with a contrast ratio of 100,000:1. Plus native 8K input with native 4K with 8K e-shift. The only real advantage of the Sony VPL-WV7000ES is the 3,200 lumens output over the JVC 3,000 lumens output.

https://www.jvc.com/usa/projectors/procision/dla-nz9/

For LCOS projectors under $30,000 the JVC models are better then the Sony. But when it comes to projectors where one needs 10,000 lumens output like the $80,000 Sony VPL-GTZ380 or 5,000 lumens Sony VPL-VW5000ES for $60,000 (on sale for $45,000), then Sony is the best since JVC is not able to offer models with that much brightness. So Sony is King of LCOS projectors over $30,0000 if one needs a lot of lumens output but JVC is King for LCOS picture quality when it comes to better HDR, deeper blacks and higher contrast ratio. It is too bad no Sony projector offers Dolby Vision HDR or HDR10+, since those high-end Sony models would be ideal with better HDR modes.

If you can get a new or used Sony VPL-XW7000ES for around $10,999.95 instead of $27,999.99, then that is a excellent deal. That might be a clearance price since that model might be out of production as Sony introduces newer models this year.

The offers I have are €8,800 for the NZ7 or €9,000 for the Sony 7000ES.
If it was you grab the Sony at that price? Is the contrast and black levels as good as the nz7? Also do you recommend pure shite or slate for projection screen in a dark room and 130” screen?

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by dazkyl

The offers I have are €8,800 for the NZ7 or €9,000 for the Sony 7000ES.
If it was you grab the Sony at that price? Is the contrast and black levels as good as the nz7? Also do you recommend pure shite or slate for projection screen in a dark room and 130” screen?

The Sony is clearly the better value if you can get a brand new one with warranty at that price. The JVC DLA-NZ7 only has 2,200 lumens output. 8K e-shift is a minor issue for me since it is not true native 8K, but just native 4K upscaled to 8K. Both JVC and Sony should have native 8K projectors by the year 2026. The Sony VPL-XW7000ES will offer 3,200 lumes output and you will not have the HDR10+ on the Sony. The JVC in general having better contrast ratio and deeper blacks plus HDR10+. But the standard HDR10 should look better on the Sony because of the extra 1,000 lumes output.

When it comes to screen technologies, you will have to research that issue, since at the moment I am not up to date with the latest screen technologies.

[dazkyl]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

The Sony is clearly the better value if you can get a brand new one with warranty at that price. The JVC DLA-NZ7 only has 2,200 lumens output. 8K e-shift is a minor issue for me since it is not true native 8K, but just native 4K upscaled to 8K. Both JVC and Sony should have native 8K projectors by the year 2026. The Sony VPL-XW7000ES will offer 3,200 lumes output and you will not have the HDR10+ on the Sony. The JVC in general having better contrast ratio and deeper blacks plus HDR10+. But the standard HDR10 should look better on the Sony because of the extra 1,000 lumes output.

When it comes to screen technologies, you will have to research that issue, since at the moment I am not up to date with the latest screen technologies.

Both the nz7 and 7000es has the same resolution?

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by dazkyl

Both the nz7 and 7000es has the same resolution?

Yes both 4096 x 2160P imaging chip.

[dazkyl]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Yes both 4096 x 2160P imaging chip.

It’s quite impressive how a projector like the nz7 has better blacks then the sony 7000es which costs alot more 🤔

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by dazkyl

It’s quite impressive how a projector like the nz7 has better blacks then the sony 7000es which costs alot more ��

Head to head testing with test patterns would need to confirm the black level and contrast ratio on the Sony and JVC. If you cannot demo these projectors, I suggest looking for professional reviews online to confirm the lower end JVC models have deeper blacks and contrast ratio then the Sony. Sony is a leader of brightness output and JVC is leader of deep blacks with contrast ratio. And this is why JVC costs more then the Sony projectors in general for most models. Not the models you are looking at, but the following info might help.

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...ojector-review

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...ojector-review

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...mizer-function

[HDTV1080P]

I just looked at the Value Electronics shootout evaluation for projectors, and the higher end Sony does have better black levels when compared to the lower end JVC, but when comparing similar models at similar price points the JVC is better. It is a little confusing, but one chart shows the JVC having deeper blacks with the DLA-NZ7 being a 8.8 and the Sony VPL-XW7000ES only being 8.7. But another chart shows the Sony being 9 for black level and the JVC 8.5.

You could also send Robert at Value Electronics a private message for more details. Overall the higher end Sony is better quality then the lower end JVC thanks to Sony’s brighter laser output.

https://valueelectronics.com/tv-proj...ut-evaluation/

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by dazkyl

Hi again,

i found a good deal on the Sony VPL-XW7000ES. They offered me the same price as the JVC NZ7.

Can you give your opinion and suggestion please?

Take the JVC and run! It has true frame by frame dynamic tone mapping and much deeper blacks. The HDR will be much better on the JVC.

Sonys also have a haunted history of panel degradation. The new Sonys haven't been out long enough to see if the issue is fixed, but that will take a lot of time and involves a lot of risk

If you absolutely need more brightness, the Sony would be suitable, but I would try to work on room treatments and screen first.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

I just looked at the Value Electronics shootout evaluation for projectors, and the higher end Sony does have better black levels when compared to the lower end JVC, but when comparing similar models at similar price points the JVC is better. It is a little confusing, but one chart shows the JVC having deeper blacks with the DLA-NZ7 being a 8.8 and the Sony VPL-XW7000ES only being 8.7. But another chart shows the Sony being 9 for black level and the JVC 8.5.

You could also send Robert at Value Electronics a private message for more details. Overall the higher end Sony is better quality then the lower end JVC thanks to Sony’s brighter laser output.

https://valueelectronics.com/tv-proj...ut-evaluation/

The Sonys average close to 10,000:1 native contrast and the JVCs are 25K-30K:1 Kris Deering and other notable calibrators have measured these. The JVC will have much better blacks.

[dazkyl]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

I just looked at the Value Electronics shootout evaluation for projectors, and the higher end Sony does have better black levels when compared to the lower end JVC, but when comparing similar models at similar price points the JVC is better. It is a little confusing, but one chart shows the JVC having deeper blacks with the DLA-NZ7 being a 8.8 and the Sony VPL-XW7000ES only being 8.7. But another chart shows the Sony being 9 for black level and the JVC 8.5.

You could also send Robert at Value Electronics a private message for more details. Overall the higher end Sony is better quality then the lower end JVC thanks to Sony’s brighter laser output.

https://valueelectronics.com/tv-proj...ut-evaluation/

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Take the JVC and run! It has true frame by frame dynamic tone mapping and much deeper blacks. The HDR will be much better on the JVC.

Sonys also have a haunted history of panel degradation. The new Sonys haven't been out long enough to see if the issue is fixed, but that will take a lot of time and involves a lot of risk

If you absolutely need more brightness, the Sony would be suitable, but I would try to work on room treatments and screen first.

What's your suggestion on this especially regarding the degredation @HDTV1080P

[dazkyl]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Take the JVC and run! It has true frame by frame dynamic tone mapping and much deeper blacks. The HDR will be much better on the JVC.

Sonys also have a haunted history of panel degradation. The new Sonys haven't been out long enough to see if the issue is fixed, but that will take a lot of time and involves a lot of risk

If you absolutely need more brightness, the Sony would be suitable, but I would try to work on room treatments and screen first.

Brightness isnt an issue as this will be in a completely dark room. Do you suggest slate 1.2 or purewhite 1.3 ?

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by dazkyl

Brightness isnt an issue as this will be in a completely dark room. Do you suggest slate 1.2 or purewhite 1.3 ?

The higher the gain, the more screen brightness but usually more artifacts.

Are the walls and carpet a light color? Are there windows in the room?

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

The Sony is clearly the better value if you can get a brand new one with warranty at that price. The JVC DLA-NZ7 only has 2,200 lumens output. 8K e-shift is a minor issue for me since it is not true native 8K, but just native 4K upscaled to 8K. Both JVC and Sony should have native 8K projectors by the year 2026. The Sony VPL-XW7000ES will offer 3,200 lumes output and you will not have the HDR10+ on the Sony. The JVC in general having better contrast ratio and deeper blacks plus HDR10+. But the standard HDR10 should look better on the Sony because of the extra 1,000 lumes output.

When it comes to screen technologies, you will have to research that issue, since at the moment I am not up to date with the latest screen technologies.

The JVC will have FAR better HDR10 with its dynamic tone mapping. The Sony uses a "static" tone mapping. The JVC will have much deeper blacks.

[dazkyl]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

The higher the gain, the more screen brightness but usually more artifacts.

Are the walls and carpet a light color? Are there windows in the room?

Dark color walls and carpet. Light controlled room no window.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by dazkyl

What's your suggestion on this especially regarding the degredation @HDTV1080P

Since only LCOS projectors offer native 4K resolution, my first choice in projectors would be JVC and my second choice would be Sony (I have always liked the JVC over the Sony because of the deeper black levels and better contrast ratio). I would have to search the AVSforum and other forums to find out about a possible Sony panel degradation issue. All flat panels and projectors have light sources that degrade over time. Flat panels can last 60,000 to 100,000+ hours where as laser light source degradation starts to occur rapidly after 20,000 hours (which is around 10 years of use depending on how many hours a day one watches TV). For a projector or flat panel turn them off when one is not watching them since then they will last longer.

It is awesome that consumers have choices with both JVC and Sony making projectors. While I am knowledgeable about projector’s and have setup some projectors for people many years ago, I do not own a projector and do not have the everyday hands-on experience that some people have. This is not a user forum for JVC or Sony, and people like Robert at Value Electronics that sells projectors everyday and people that own and use a projector everyday will generally be more knowledgeable about projectors. But on the other hand I have the electronic knowledge ro repair and engineer a projector at the component level and also a degree in computer programming to write firmware updates. I just have never owned a projector myself, but that might change in a few years.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

The JVC will have FAR better HDR10 with its dynamic tone mapping. The Sony uses a "static" tone mapping. The JVC will have much deeper blacks.

I have been a big fan of JVC for years owning their 1080I D-VHS machine and other high quality products over the years. The JVC also has HDR10+ which Sony does not offer. However when comparing higher end Sony projectors like the $80,000 model, $60,000 model, and $28,000 model to the entry level JVC $7,000 model. The Sony will have a overall better picture quality because of the brighter lumens output and other issues. But sometimes the JVC will have deeper blacks and better contrast ratio. However its unfair to compare a entry level JVC to a high end Sony. Value Electronics test results clearly show the JVC is a better projector then the Sony when projector models of similar price points are compared to each other.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

I have been a big fan of JVC for years owning their 1080I D-VHS machine and other high quality products over the years. The JVC also has HDR10+ which Sony does not offer. However when comparing higher end Sony projectors like the $80,000 model, $60,000 model, and $28,000 model to the entry level JVC $7,000 model. The Sony will have a overall better picture quality because of the brighter lumens output and other issues. But sometimes the JVC will have deeper blacks and better contrast ratio. However its unfair to compare a entry level JVC to a high end Sony. Value Electronics test results clearly show the JVC is a better projector then the Sony when projector models of similar price points are compared to each other.

So, more light output doesn't = better PQ.

LED TVs often put out more light than OLEDs, yet many prefer OLEDs because of their infinite contrast ratios.

So blacks become the key part of an image.

Now, it's true, one needs a sufficient amount of light based on screen size, gain, room, and personal preference. It's generally recommended to get at least 30 ftL for HDR. Dynamic tone mapping (on the JVC) can allow one to get a brighter image versus static mapping (on the Sony). Dynamic tone mapping is a much more "intelligent" way to tone map and it analyzes each frame and how much brightness is available to form the gamma curve.

As alluded, the NP5 will also be close to 30,000:1 native contrast and that Sony 7000 is closer to 10,000:1. This is a MASSIVE different. 3X. These were measured by Kris Deering in a shootout that was performed last year. Objective numbers are important because they take out biases. This will result in notably deeper black levels on the JVC. Kris Deering is widely considered one of the very top calibrators. But I know of other calibrators who have measured similarly.

The NP5 will also have a wider P3 color gamut vs the Sony 7000. Now, the NP5 is a lamp-based unit. The NZ7 is laser based and basically the same projector otherwise at $11K.

The 7000 will have a better lens, but from regular seating distances with moving content, it may be very tough to discern as JVCs have very good lenses.

I would take the NP5 over the Sony - UNLESS - one NEEDS all of that Sony brightness. And quite frankly, if someone buys the Sony then they should just consider buying a Lumagen or Envy for dynamic tone mapping. If they can afford the Sony 7000, then the Lumagen is pretty cheap really.

The Sonys are very, very overpriced and have been for a loooong time. They are much cheaper in Europe.

And all of the Sonys have suffered from engine block deterioration and Kris Deering and other calibrators have talked about this over at AVS. It remains to be seen if it's fixed on new units, but I'm skeptical until proven otherwise.

Every calibrator I've talked to considers JVC at #1 with Sony a distant #2 followed by Epson at #3. With long throw DLP's only around 1,000:1 native contrast, it's hard to consider (especially since most show rainbow effects)...unless we're talking super high end Christies which run over $100,000.

[dazkyl]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

So, more light output doesn't = better PQ.

LED TVs often put out more light than OLEDs, yet many prefer OLEDs because of their infinite contrast ratios.

So blacks become the key part of an image.

Now, it's true, one needs a sufficient amount of light based on screen size, gain, room, and personal preference. It's generally recommended to get at least 30 ftL for HDR. Dynamic tone mapping (on the JVC) can allow one to get a brighter image versus static mapping (on the Sony). Dynamic tone mapping is a much more "intelligent" way to tone map and it analyzes each frame and how much brightness is available to form the gamma curve.

As alluded, the NP5 will also be close to 30,000:1 native contrast and that Sony 7000 is closer to 10,000:1. This is a MASSIVE different. 3X. These were measured by Kris Deering in a shootout that was performed last year. Objective numbers are important because they take out biases. This will result in notably deeper black levels on the JVC. Kris Deering is widely considered one of the very top calibrators. But I know of other calibrators who have measured similarly.

The NP5 will also have a wider P3 color gamut vs the Sony 7000. Now, the NP5 is a lamp-based unit. The NZ7 is laser based and basically the same projector otherwise at $11K.

The 7000 will have a better lens, but from regular seating distances with moving content, it may be very tough to discern as JVCs have very good lenses.

I would take the NP5 over the Sony - UNLESS - one NEEDS all of that Sony brightness. And quite frankly, if someone buys the Sony then they should just consider buying a Lumagen or Envy for dynamic tone mapping. If they can afford the Sony 7000, then the Lumagen is pretty cheap really.

The Sonys are very, very overpriced and have been for a loooong time. They are much cheaper in Europe.

And all of the Sonys have suffered from engine block deterioration and Kris Deering and other calibrators have talked about this over at AVS. It remains to be seen if it's fixed on new units, but I'm skeptical until proven otherwise.

Every calibrator I've talked to considers JVC at #1 with Sony a distant #2 followed by Epson at #3. With long throw DLP's only around 1,000:1 native contrast, it's hard to consider (especially since most show rainbow effects)...unless we're talking super high end Christies which run over $100,000.

Very detailed answer. So the NZ7 over the 7000es? What about screen? Pure white or slate?