Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I looked at the image only, you know because instagram=pictures, and there is no physical media shown in it. I don't read hashtag # sign gibberish.

For the third time: I do not care what is coming to any streaming service.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by cheez avenger

The Abyss has a better shot at being placed on Disney+. The theatrical cut can also be accessed via HULU through the HBO add-on subscription if one does not have HBO directly.

I much prefer the extended cut of The Abyss and in its widescreen presentation. I want it on blu-ray or 4K disc not via Hulahoop or HOBO.

[cheez avenger]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I much prefer the extended cut of The Abyss and in its widescreen presentation. I want it on blu-ray or 4K disc not via Hulahoop or HOBO.

But they're currently in the best presentation ever outside of D-VHS.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by cheez avenger

But they're currently in the best presentation ever outside of D-VHS.

If the presentation is in pan & scan like the Vudu disc 2 digital conversion is, then there is nothing "best" about it at all. Pan & scan sucks at any resolution; it completely ruins the director's and the cinematographer's intentions.

The extra 28 minutes in the extended cut greatly expands upon the story and that makes it the best presentation regardless of the resolution of the theatrical cut. I'm not trading the extra 28 minutes of the extended cut for an HD stream of the theatrical cut.

Both the theatrical and the extended cuts need to be on blu-ray or 4K disc and in the correct aspect ratio. Nothing else cuts it for me.

[cheez avenger]

Originally Posted by Vilya

If the presentation is in pan & scan like the Vudu disc 2 digital conversion is, then there is nothing "best" about it at all. Pan & scan sucks at any resolution; it completely ruins the director's and the cinematographer's intentions.

The extra 28 minutes in the extended cut greatly expands upon the story and that makes it the best presentation regardless of the resolution of the theatrical cut. I'm not trading the extra 28 minutes of the extended cut for an HD stream of the theatrical cut.

Both the theatrical and the extended cuts need to be on blu-ray or 4K disc and in the correct aspect ratio. Nothing else cuts it for me.

No, they're both in 2.35:1. No zooming in on any device is required. They're both in HD. I'm not vouching for the disc to digital version on VUDU. I'm going by the actual HBO feed. I prefer the special Abyss edition, so I'll wait on that, but I'll definitely watch and re-watch True Lies while it's on HBO.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I much prefer the extended cut of The Abyss and in its widescreen presentation. I want it on blu-ray or 4K disc not via Hulahoop or HOBO.

Why does the phrase, “what ever floats your boat”, seems appropriate. You know you have 4K release of Spartacus coming this summer as well as many other titles, the Abyss on DVD still after all these years that’s like living on bread and water only Vilya. No thank you and I have both DVD versions on pristine media, I doubt your over played copy is as good.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I have VLC on my computer, but I watch movies on my TV. The zoom function on the Oppo 203 allowed me to make the most of my TV screen's real estate and that real estate far exceeds that of my computer monitors. My Oppo 203 does far more for my DVDs than VLC media player, too.

And the 103D and 105D are better with DVD playback then the 203. It’s based on the process of MTK SoC -> Darbee FPGA -> SI VRS processing with 4kx2k output. The 203 is very good, it’s still topped by the prior in that regard.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Why does the phrase, “what ever floats your boat”, seems appropriate. You know you have 4K release of Spartacus coming this summer as well as many other titles, the Abyss on DVD still after all these years that’s like living on bread and water only Vilya. No thank you and I have both DVD versions on pristine media, I doubt your over played copy is as good.

What does Spartacus have to do with The Abyss? When I want to see a specific sci-fi movie, a movie about Roman gladiators doesn't fit the bill.

The nice thing about optical media, even DVDs, is that they don't deteriorate with repeated viewings and for your information my copy of The Abyss Special Edition was played for the very first time two nights ago. It was still shrink wrapped even. The last time I watched it was on laserdisc.

The extended cut of The Abyss is not available via any streaming service and those extra 28 minutes improve the movie greatly in my opinion. Streaming the theatrical cut, which I like much less, is undesirable to me no matter the resolution.

First and foremost I watch a movie for the story and the performances within it, not for its home video format. It is why I still own so many DVDs and it is why I retain 179 laserdiscs and 126 VHS tapes; the movie is the most important of all.

Of course, I want the best possible presentation of the movies that I choose to own, but streaming is not ownership. Thanks to my owning the extended cut of The Abyss on DVD I can watch the version of this movie that I prefer. People who do not own the DVD Special Edition can not watch the extended cut, period. Being able to see this cut of this movie on DVD is infinitely better, to me at least, than not being able to see it at all.

You really seem to be deliberately underestimating what a good disc player can do for a DVD when viewed on a decent TV and that is surprising seeing as you are so intimately familiar with Oppo players. You are the last person who should be selling them so short.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

And the 103D and 105D are better with DVD playback then the 203. It’s based on the process of MTK SoC -> Darbee FPGA -> SI VRS processing with 4kx2k output. The 203 is very good, it’s still topped by the prior in that regard.

[Show spoiler]

I own a 93 and a 203; I skipped the 103 generation, but I am not going to argue with you of all people about which Oppo model does the best job with DVDs nor am I going to attempt to procure a 103D on the used market. The 203 does a fine job with DVDs as you yourself have said.

My next disc player purchase will likely be a Pioneer LX 500 as that seems to be the best choice among players being manufactured today. I have never even seen the mythical Pioneer LX 800.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Vilya

What does Spartacus have to do with The Abyss? When I want to see a specific sci-fi movie, a movie about Roman gladiators doesn't fit the bill.

Just giving you a heads up that 2020 will produce a lot more of 4K remasters, look here at Bill Hunt's commentary today. see THE BITS PRESENTS A 2020 ULTRA HD RELEASE UPDATE: MAJOR CATALOG TITLES ARE COMING TO PHYSICAL 4K THIS YEAR!

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

The extended cut of The Abyss is not available via any streaming service and those extra 28 minutes improve the movie greatly in my opinion. Streaming the theatrical cut, which I like much less, is undesirable to me no matter the resolution.

Agreed. Took a look at my special edition last night on my 2.35:1 screen. Used the V stretch on the Oppo 203 to fill the top and bottom. It is watchable, the correct aspect and the extended cut. Just wish they would release this on BD or UHD BD. Now if they would do a new immersive audio mix (and do it right) I would pay good money for a copy.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Just giving you a heads up that 2020 will produce a lot more of 4K remasters, look here at Bill Hunt's commentary today.

Lots of good stuff in that post!

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Just giving you a heads up that 2020 will produce a lot more of 4K remasters, look here at Bill Hunt's commentary today. see THE BITS PRESENTS A 2020 ULTRA HD RELEASE UPDATE: MAJOR CATALOG TITLES ARE COMING TO PHYSICAL 4K THIS YEAR!

Thank you for the list even if it meant reading yet another plea for money from Bill Hunt. Does he ever write anything without begging for money?

I was very optimistic about disc releases on all formats even before looking at your link. It remains a great time to be a film fan and physical media collector, but it would be nice to see more releases of TV shows on disc as that category sorely needs a boost.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Thank you for the list even if it meant reading yet another plea for money from Bill Hunt. Does he ever write anything without begging for money?

Been reading that site since it started, to the best of my memory Hunt started asking for money in recent years. I can see where full time independent site operators could be having a hard time financially. I try to help small sites and/or software developers with donations. Example, REW (here), John Mulcahy's software does not require payment but he does ask for a donation.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Been reading that site since it started, to the best of my memory Hunt started asking for money in recent years. I can see where full time independent site operators could be having a hard time financially. I try to help small sites and/or software developers with donations. Example, REW (here), John Mulcahy's software does not require payment but he does ask for a donation.

You know Wikipedia and a lot of open source software orgs ask for donations at intervals.

I don't see anything wrong asking for donations to keep a site that caters to physical media remaining in the limelight. With the cost changes of running internet sites ever increasing as well as advertisers focused more on high traffic sites it is a problem for these operators to maintain the site on a daily basis. As a comparison look at the AVS forum site, it has a AV business, massive site maintenance and most clearly has sold itself to a lot of google and other forms of advertisements to remain afloat.

Yes been reading the bits site for many years also. Cheers!

[JohnAV]

Have streaming services sucked the magic out of watching movies? [opinion] - RedShark 1/30/20

The ease at which we can now watch movies on demand is a great thing for choice. But has it meant that watching a film is no longer the 'event' that it used to be?

I was thinking, the other day, when trying to find a film to watch on Netflix, why do I spend so much time trying to decide what to watch? Yes, sometimes there is a lack of titles but across multiple streaming services surely I should be able to find something?

Actually, I don’t think it’s down to the titles available as much as it’s about the lack of watching a streaming movie as an event.

On the one hand, we have the sense of occasion if we venture out to watch a movie at the cinema. There is the preparation, the trailers, the unwanted advertising and the smell of the auditorium.

The downside of this experience? Generally, the cost and the fact that you have to sit with other people. We all know that if you get a good audience and a great film, it really can add to the experience. Although I often find that the audience can be the most annoying thing about going to watch a film at the cinema. This is, at least partly, why watching at home can be a benefit.

The second tier of occasion for me is if I’ve bought or rented a disc to watch at home, I’ve invested some money and got something physical in return that I can watch. I find myself much less distracted and more in the mood if I watch a film at home on disk rather than a stream. Part of this, I think, is down to wanting to get value for money and hence taking time to earmark a slot to sit down and watch uninterrupted. I liken it to listening to vinyl, the effort required, whilst not as visceral as placing an album on a turntable, gives an appropriate reward.

Distractions
Then we move to tier three. With a more instant service like Netflix or Amazon Prime, I know I can stop at any time and pick up where I left off on lots of devices. Whilst convenient, this can also be distracting. My state of mind is just different; I tend to enjoy the film a lot less. This has nothing to do with the film at all. The fact that I can stop at any point, pick up on a myriad of devices and watch on the move actually takes something away from my enjoyment.

There’s something else too... I know I belong in a bygone age, but I can tell the difference quite easily between a streamed film and one from disk. I do hope that physical media continues for some time. The announcement some weeks ago that Samsung is pulling out of the UHD player game is a shame. At the moment, the number of at least semi-capable players on the market take up the slack, although it might not be like that for much longer. The fact that Oppo also stopped making their excellent UHD Blu-ray players last year is an ominous precursor. There will, of course, be a tipping point. Maybe we will see UHD discs adapt to the same market segment that laserdisc used to, a niche but available.

To combat this I would love to see an uptick in quality from the streaming services. However, like broadcast services, it seems to be a case of lowering the bitrate until lots of people complain or until a more efficient codec is adopted, although that doesn’t halt the race to the bottom for very long. The fact that you can get UHD streaming at around 15 Mb/s does show the progress of technology but also comes at the expense of fine detail, especially on large screens. Yes, upscaling is generally good and things are improving all the time, but it’s not perfect.

As an example of what’s involved let’s take uncompressed 12bit RAW UHD at 24fps which is around 319MB/s (yes Megabytes). What you are getting on a 15Mb/s stream is about 170x more compressed. To put it another way, what you are seeing is 0.0059% of the original data from the sensor. A more practical way to illustrate this is to take an A4 piece of paper and fold it so that the area of the large side occupies about half of the corresponding side of an SD card.

Isn’t compression mind-blowing?

[PhysicalMediaNut]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Have streaming services sucked the magic out of watching movies? [opinion] - RedShark 1/30/20

There is some good points. My main take away is that streaming is a more casual and passive activity while going to the theatre or watching physical media is a more memorable event that can be appreciated on a number of different levels. Maybe the two can coexist nicely since one doesn’t really replace the other.

[stonesfan129]

Count me as another one who is jumping on the streaming bandwagon. I just have way too many discs. I have converted most of my collection for VUDU and then sold off a lot of my discs. I have my Criterion Collection stuff still and maybe a handful of movies that I don't want to get rid of (James Bond, Dark Knight Trilogy, Star Wars) but I'm pretty much at the point where it's just easier to get the streaming version. I can watch it whenever, wherever unlike iTunes but I don't have to deal with the disc and it often comes out weeks before the disc release. I am pretty satisfied with the quality. Yes it isn't the same quality as the discs but it's acceptable to me on my 42" Panasonic plasma or my laptop screen. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

Count me as another one who is jumping on the streaming bandwagon. I just have way too many discs. I have converted most of my collection for VUDU and then sold off a lot of my discs. I have my Criterion Collection stuff still and maybe a handful of movies that I don't want to get rid of (James Bond, Dark Knight Trilogy, Star Wars) but I'm pretty much at the point where it's just easier to get the streaming version. I can watch it whenever, wherever unlike iTunes but I don't have to deal with the disc and it often comes out weeks before the disc release. I am pretty satisfied with the quality. Yes it isn't the same quality as the discs but it's acceptable to me on my 42" Panasonic plasma or my laptop screen. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Nothing worthwhile is ever easy. Incredibly true in this case. Without that high quality picture and surround sound, you aren’t getting the full HT experience. You are missing out, that’s a fact.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

Count me as another one who is jumping on the streaming bandwagon. I just have way too many discs. I have converted most of my collection for VUDU and then sold off a lot of my discs. I have my Criterion Collection stuff still and maybe a handful of movies that I don't want to get rid of (James Bond, Dark Knight Trilogy, Star Wars) but I'm pretty much at the point where it's just easier to get the streaming version. I can watch it whenever, wherever unlike iTunes but I don't have to deal with the disc and it often comes out weeks before the disc release. I am pretty satisfied with the quality. Yes it isn't the same quality as the discs but it's acceptable to me on my 42" Panasonic plasma or my laptop screen. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.

On the recently posted commentary I was thinking the main motivation for someone going tier 3 route was the lack of a good setup to even watch tier 2 content. Even so in todays world a 42” Plasma is akin to someone retaining a CRT based TV of many years ago, or even a large rear projector tv. I understand why, and the decision, it’s just sad you never discovered the improved content on a larger more modern display that could show greatly improved color and contrast as Steeldeal brought up just now. I have a friend that has been watching a older 32” TV for broadcast only for last decade and has no interest in getting even streaming. So at least you are more progressive then that.