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Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Audio > Music / Audiophiles > Vinyl and Old School Music


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Old 10-04-2010, 09:29 PM   #41
FreddieFerric FreddieFerric is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John72953 View Post
Care to share your schematics?

John
I'd like to see that also.
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Old 10-04-2010, 09:40 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John72953 View Post
Maybe we could start a thread on Phonostage suggestions? There are lot of choices from a range of price points and it may help people out. Just a thought.

John
I think a phono stage thread would/could be helpful to newbies, i.e., me.

Also, do cartirdges/styluses need broken in to sound optimal? I'm just wondering. I do not hear anything bad with mine, it is just that I have about 15-20 hours or so of play time on mine and wondered.
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Old 10-04-2010, 09:43 PM   #43
richteer richteer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
High end phono preamps are a waste of money. It isn't hard to make a great sounding preamp for a very reasonable price. Spend your money on records, not electronic boxes.
No argument from me about buying records, but I do take issue with your assertion that high end phono preamps are a waste of money. Before continuing, please define what you mean in terms of high end (price wise), so that we have a common reference point.

Quote:
I come from the LP era, and a lot of what is written about turntables today would have gotten laughed at back in the day. Turntable technology has not advanced since LPs went the way of the dodo, the prices have just gone up.
Really? I come from that era too but I must've missed the magentic drive and air bearing turntables from the 1970s. And the advances in materials, construction, etc.

Quote:
A good 70s Thorens, Technics or Dual will perform as good as modern turntables designed for audiophiles. There are lots of great cartridges still being made for not a lot of money. When it comes to turntables, they worked it all out and made it cost-efficient forty years ago. All the audiophile stuff that's come since is designed to get people to spend too much.
I have to call you out on this one too. My dad has a Thorens TD160 Mk 2 and I used to sell Dual turntables when I worked in a hifi store years ago. They're OK for what they are, but perform as well as a high end turntable they do not. (Although again, we should agree on what sort of price range we're talking about before continuing this further.) Similarly, I was loaned an old Technics turntable while mine was out of commission for while. High end it most certainly wasn't.

I agree that at the highest end prices have gotten out of control, but I think that anyone thinking that a modest turntable or cartridge from the 1970s is as good as today's high end alternatives is kidding themselves.

I get the whole retro nostalgia thing, but sound quality and nostalgia are two completely different things.

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I have tens of thousands of records... Whole walls full of racks... And Ive owned at least a dozen turntables of all types. Take the advice of a long time vinyl fan. Shop smart, don't just throw money at the problem.
As another long time vinyl fan, I agree with your last sentence. But I'd also add that buying better, more expensive, gear doesn't necessarily constitute "throwing money at a problem". Once one has wrung every last drop of performance out of their current gear and still hungers for more, moving up the food chain is the only alternative.
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Old 10-04-2010, 09:44 PM   #44
Johnny Vinyl Johnny Vinyl is offline
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Originally Posted by BluRayFred View Post
I'd like to see that also.
Exactly......if there is a simple secret we'd all like that advantage and spend our money on media instead.

John
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Old 10-04-2010, 09:49 PM   #45
richteer richteer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammie View Post
Also, do cartirdges/styluses need broken in to sound optimal? I'm just wondering. I do not hear anything bad with mine, it is just that I have about 15-20 hours or so of play time on mine and wondered.
Yes they do. In most cases a few tens of hours should do it, so you're almost there!

What is arguably more important is correct and accurate set up of your cartridge: the alignment, VTA, VTF, and so on. Get everything in the right ball park when first installing a new cartridge, then, once it's broken in, spend the time to get everything spot on. It might take an hour or two, but it'll be worth it.
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Old 10-04-2010, 09:50 PM   #46
Johnny Vinyl Johnny Vinyl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammie View Post
I think a phono stage thread would/could be helpful to newbies, i.e., me.

Also, do cartirdges/styluses need broken in to sound optimal? I'm just wondering. I do not hear anything bad with mine, it is just that I have about 15-20 hours or so of play time on mine and wondered.
I'd love for Rich to answer this question as he has heard much more of a variety of TT's and cartridge setups then I. Rich?

John
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Old 10-04-2010, 09:51 PM   #47
Johnny Vinyl Johnny Vinyl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John72953 View Post
I'd love for Rich to answer this question as he has heard much more of a variety of TT's and cartridge setups then I. Rich?

John
He beat me to it......

John
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Old 10-04-2010, 09:52 PM   #48
richteer richteer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John72953 View Post
He beat me to it......

John
Just lucky timing, my friend. Just lucky timing. :-)
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Old 10-04-2010, 09:56 PM   #49
Johnny Vinyl Johnny Vinyl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richteer View Post
Just lucky timing, my friend. Just lucky timing. :-)
A question though for you....what is your stance on phonostages with respect their advantages paired with entry-level TT's? Can they squeeze out that additional performance?

John
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:02 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammie View Post
Thanks for that info. What constitutes a good phono stage/Phono Pre-amp?
Whoops, sorry I missed this post just now. The short answer is the same as any other preamp: the output signal must be as close as possible to the input, except for being bigger. There's more to it than that, but that's it in a nutshell.

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I'm considering getting one for two reasons. The first is obviously to get a better product than the built-in one on my Denon receiver. The other is that I may move my TT to another location and it will allow me to run straight high quality RCA cables from the new location to my receiver.
Good reasoning. Being low level, the signals from a TT are very prone to interference and other nasties. By using a phono stage you'll amplify those tiny signals into something much bigger which will be more resiliant to noise etc. The potential sound quality impromvements over the builtin phono stage will be a bonus! :-)

Quote:
The place I recently had my TT serviced at recommended the NAD PP2i or PP3i. They are right around $200.

Thoughts anyone?
Funnily enough, I'm trying to get a hold of one or both of those to review. If nothing else, it might help balance out the phono stage I'm hoping to review in the upcoming issue. It's here and I'm using it, but I have yet to write the review. Suffice to say that I'm not in any hurry to give it back to the distributor!

Last edited by richteer; 10-04-2010 at 10:15 PM.
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:14 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John72953 View Post
A question though for you....what is your stance on phonostages with respect their advantages paired with entry-level TT's? Can they squeeze out that additional performance?

John
Good question! At the end of the day, our systems are only as good as the weakest link. So I believe in a balanced system, even if I'm somewhat guilty of not following my own advice in this respect!

A good phono stage will let you get the most out of your TT/arm/cartridge, but I think it's also important to keep things in perspective (assuming one is buying new at about the current list price). There's not much point in spending hundreds or thousands of $$ on a phono stage if the preceding components aren't up to it (and no upgrade is planned within a reasonable time frame).

But in the same breath, I'd also assert that a decent stand alone phono stage will result in better sound quality than using the one built into an average AVR.

So, a ~$500 + $200 phono stage is likely to be better than just the turntable fed into the same AVR, but a ~$500 turntable + $2,000 phono stage would, in most cases, be nuts!
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Old 10-06-2010, 05:56 PM   #52
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rega p1 has been discontinued being replaced by a slighter more expensive rp1:

http://www.musicdirect.com/product/88484

http://www.rega.co.uk/index2.htm
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Old 10-11-2010, 12:34 PM   #53
Johnny Vinyl Johnny Vinyl is offline
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Acoustic Sounds is having a sale on Thorens TT's. Might be worth checking into.

http://store.acousticsounds.com/inde...&banner_id=260

John
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Old 10-11-2010, 02:17 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John72953 View Post
Acoustic Sounds is having a sale on Thorens TT's. Might be worth checking into.

http://store.acousticsounds.com/inde...&banner_id=260

John
I got an e-mail from them last week about that TD295 in Mahogany for $870. It looks REAL nice!
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Old 10-13-2010, 03:26 PM   #55
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Awesome thread, sorry I didn't see the sticky request; done.

This is the kind of info that helped me make an informed decision on getting back into the wonderful sound of real grooves, so to speak.

Last edited by dobyblue; 10-13-2010 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 10-13-2010, 10:39 PM   #56
Johnny Vinyl Johnny Vinyl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobyblue View Post
Awesome thread, sorry I didn't see the sticky request; done.This is the kind of info that helped me make an informed decision on getting back into the wonderful sound of real grooves, so to speak.
Cool! Thanks Steve!

John
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Old 10-23-2010, 06:08 AM   #57
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I have the opportunity to buy a brand new Denon DP-300F for $270, including shipping. I already have two turntables, but my vintage Marantz turntable is getting old and needs to be sent to a retirement home.

If I buy the Denon, I will use it primarily in my two-channel room with my DIY speakers and vintage Carver electronics. The normal price is $329 and the $60 saving is probably too good to ignore. I have no information about the included cartridge, but my guess is that I may have to spend an additional $100 to upgrade the cartridge.

I definitely need an automatic or semi-automatic turntable as I sometimes fall asleep when I am really tired and I want the arm to return automatically.

I am still a bit undecided and need a push.

Last edited by Big Daddy; 10-23-2010 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 10-23-2010, 02:42 PM   #58
Johnny Vinyl Johnny Vinyl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy View Post
I have the opportunity to buy a brand new Denon DP-300F for $270, including shipping. I already have two turntables, but my vintage Marantz turntable is getting old and needs to be sent to a retirement home.

If I buy the Denon, I will use it primarily in my two-channel room with my DIY speakers and vintage Carver electronics. The normal price is $329 and the $60 saving is probably too good to ignore. I have no information about the included cartridge, but my guess is that I may have to spend an additional $100 to upgrade the cartridge.

I definitely need an automatic or semi-automatic turntable as I sometimes fall asleep when I am really tired and I want the arm to return automatically.

I am still a bit undecided and need a push.
Hi BD! Hope all is well with you and the family, but do you really need yet another piece of gear?.

Knowing you, you probably researched this TT to the 'nth degree, but here is another one...in case you missed it. Most of the comments do in fact state that this TT will be better served by a cartridge upgrade, although I'm not sure a $100 one will accomplish that feat. Having said that, and perhaps backtracking a bit, the Ortofon 2M Red for $99 might just be the ticket.

John
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Old 10-23-2010, 11:22 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John72953 View Post
Hi BD! Hope all is well with you and the family, but do you really need yet another piece of gear?:p.

Knowing you, you probably researched this TT to the 'nth degree, but here is another one...in case you missed it. Most of the comments do in fact state that this TT will be better served by a cartridge upgrade, although I'm not sure a $100 one will accomplish that feat. Having said that, and perhaps backtracking a bit, the Ortofon 2M Red for $99 might just be the ticket.

John
You are absolutely right. I have so many equipment in the living room, movie room, garage, and closets that my house is beginning to look like a Costco Warehouse. Some of them are not even out of the box. When I am bored and my wife is not around, I become very dangerous and use the credit card like a weapon. I should cancel my subscription to all the audio/video, computer, and stock market magazines. Everytime I see a new gadget or hear about a stock, I want to buy it.

I did a lot of research about buying a replacement turntable as the old one is almost out of commission. I don't spend as much time listening to LP's anymore. Between Blu-ray concerts & movies, DVD's, SACD's, CD's, and a truck load of cassettes, I have too many distractions. Most of the cassettes are made from my old LP's that I stupidly sold for 50 cents each when I moved many years ago.

I definitely need a semiautomatic or fully automatic turntable as the idea of a needle scratching the LP and making noise while I have dozed off does not appeal to me. Money is not a factor and I can buy a much better quality cartridge, but after all the years of damage to my hearing, I don't believe I will be able to hear the difference.

Last edited by Big Daddy; 10-23-2010 at 11:30 PM.
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Old 12-01-2010, 02:58 AM   #60
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John,

You should add the new Marantz TT-42 Turntable to the list in post #1. I believe it is similar to the Denon DP-300F turntable and is priced exactly the same ($329). It is not listed on the Marantz's North America website yet, but it is listed on the European sites. Music Direct has it listed on page 44 of their new 2011 catalog. However, it is not listed on their website yet.

http://www.marantz.com/new/index.cfm...f&prod_id=2491
http://www.marantz.eu/en/products/30/TT-42/
http://www.marantz.com/pdfs/e_tt42.pdf

Last edited by Big Daddy; 12-01-2010 at 04:32 AM.
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