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Old 01-24-2019, 10:55 AM   #41
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I still need to rewatch it sometime, but I didn't think Silence Of The Lambs in 4K/HDR on iTunes looked that "gorgeous" to be honest.
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Old 01-24-2019, 11:53 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McCrutchy View Post
FYI: The region-locking stance has also apparently softened a bit, because the Bergman box set discs are entirely region free. It might well be a one-off, but it's still a significant change, especially given that Criterion took an unnecessarily oppressive stance on region coding by applying it to every disc as a blanket policy.

Also, we'll have to agree to disagree on Criterion being "technologically skittish". I think, far from that, they always try to be at the forefront of home video, but the difference is that they refuse to compromise their reputation or their mission by diving in early. I never expected Criterion to be first in line at the buffet because I never expected them to want to release most of the titles available on UHD Blu-ray in 2016 and 2017. Likewise, when Criterion do go to UHD Blu-ray, I don't expect there to be any easily identifiable technical flaws on the discs, for example, and I think issues like the ones StudioCanal have had would be unacceptable to them. I think ultimately, HDR and Dolby Vision need to be completely sorted with no prickly bits like whether or not to buy into HDR10+, and as I've said many months ago, Criterion may also want to see 100 GB discs come into wider use, (something which Lionsgate and Universal seem to be helping with) because several of their films are lengthy, and because they ultimately need to decide whether to place extras on the UHD Blu-ray as they did when they last graduated to Blu-ray, or whether to keep them on 1080p discs.

But yes, I do understand what you're saying Geoff , that it is taking quite a while, and streaming is definitely a spanner in the works. Hopefully, it all gets sorted to everyone's satisfaction, but I think Criterion could ultimately do really well with UHD Blu-ray and so I'd hope that they at least give themselves a chance to release some titles.
The HDR thing is a red herring IMO. There's a standard in place that 99.9% of discs use and that's HDR10. The other two versions are premium extensions to this system that add dynamic metadata which allow for better contrast control and tone mapping in the display. That's pretty much it, and the inherent usefulness of these systems depends on how good/bad your display is at tone mapping to begin with. Personally I think HDR is the last reason why Criterion or any indies are holding out, if they want to bypass HDR completely then they can do so and release 4K SDR discs. Would that put me off, as I said? Yes - but I'm not everyone else, thank gawd.

As for 100GB discs, why it still seems to carry this reputation of being rarer than hen's teeth I've no idea. Someone in the First Man thread noted that it seemed to be "one of the first 100GB discs", only for someone to respond with this thread https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=294596 which contains approximately 140 of the little blighters. Again, red herring.

[edit] I think it's mainly the cost of bringing these to market (tens of thousands of dollars to strike a UHD disc master, or so I hear) as a triple-threat niche of a niche of a niche that's giving the indies pause, e.g. an obscure genre film on a format which itself is a smaller subset of Blu-ray which itself is a smaller subset of physical media sales. Yeah, they could cherry pick the bigger titles for UHD release but then you'll get people moaning about why x movie got a UHD while y did not (kinda like how people kvetch when a boutique label dares to release anything nakedly mainstream).

You mentioned StudioCanal though and I think they had the right idea with Deer Hunter and the Carpenter UHD's (quality of the encoding aside ): release them as a run of limited edition steels and/or swag-laden sets - swag that has genuine added value - and watch people snap them up, which will help to pay for the UHD release outright on that first printing run. Then release a regularly packaged version minus the added tat a few months later to mop up any of the stragglers who didn't catch it first time around. The good thing about that sort of approach - having worked so well for the likes of Arrow and Second Sight on regular Blu in recent years - is that it doesn't seem to generate a great deal of resentment amongst buyers: if you want the tat-filled LE then you gotta pay the premium up front, but at least the core content i.e. the UHD discs themselves will be made available later, unlike the Twilight Time LE 'once it's gone it's gone (unless it's not)' approach.

Last edited by Geoff D; 01-24-2019 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 01-24-2019, 12:10 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubstar View Post
for that amount it better showcase the 4K restorations, transfers at 4K.
For that amount? That's the cost of anywhere from three to four (on sale) Blu-ray discs once you include tax and shipping.

$10 a month for The Criterion Channel is a reasonable cost given the curation and supplements.

To put it in perspective, it costs a family of four anywhere from $60 to $100 (IMAX or DC) to see a film on a Saturday night in NYC, and that's without concessions and parking/transit, never mind dinner at a quick casual restaurant, which will easily run between $75 to $100+.
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Old 01-24-2019, 01:33 PM   #44
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UHD sales are cannibalizing BD sales, so I'm sure eventually Criterion will feel a lot of pressure to do so. I wouldn't be surprised if BD only releases continued for a long time after though, due to licensing issues and lesser masters being used on stuff like Naked Prey.
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Old 01-24-2019, 02:26 PM   #45
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Yes but it's doing so mostly for new release movies and a handful of catalogue product, and seeing as catalogue product is literally what the indie model revolves around then there just isn't that major pressure for them to deliver 4K discs IMO. I know y'all aren't saying it's there now, because it's not, but more than anything it's going to be 4K competition from other indies (not studios) that will drive others into the market. Thanks to the fragmented rights situation and region free nature of UHD then Criterion could well find themselves behind the curve if the likes of Arrow or Eureka or Second Sight or whoever decide to start releasing 4K discs of the same titles that Criterion are doing on BD only.

Bottom line: the indies are all still waiting to see how it shakes down.
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Old 01-24-2019, 02:46 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
Yes but it's doing so mostly for new release movies and a handful of catalogue product, and seeing as catalogue product is literally what the indie model revolves around then there just isn't that major pressure for them to deliver 4K discs IMO.
Isn't that a bit circular and self-fulfilling, Geoff? You're basically saying that not a ton of catalog is being released because not a ton of catalog is being purchased because not a ton of catalog is being released because not a ton of catalog is being purchased because...
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Old 01-24-2019, 03:51 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noremac Mij View Post
The gorgeous iTunes version has Dolby Vision. That's large budget studio work, probably by MGM.

And in general, I'm sure these small labels would love to get into the UDH market, but they simply don't have the money, technology, or people who know what they're doing.

Look at someone like Shout!, in over a decade of trying, they can't put together a simple proper Blu-ray. UHD might as well be quantum physics to them.
speaking of streaming, I'd be curious to know what, if any, differences 'The Princess Bride' (4K / DV) has when compared to the Criterion release.

as to Shout! they have done UHD, just only to the IMAX doc features, time will tell if they decide to similar releases for their other 4K restoration movies.
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Old 01-24-2019, 06:43 PM   #48
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12/1/1984 - Released 1st laserdisc - Citizen Kane
3/31/1998 - Released first DVDs - Amarcord, The 400 Blows
12/16/2008 - Released first blu-rays: The Third Man, The Man Who Fell to Earth, Bottle Rocket, Chungking Express

They're about due if the past is any indication of at least 10 years between new formats.
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Old 01-24-2019, 08:52 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctorossi View Post
Isn't that a bit circular and self-fulfilling, Geoff? You're basically saying that not a ton of catalog is being released because not a ton of catalog is being purchased because not a ton of catalog is being released because not a ton of catalog is being purchased because...
I was literally gonna put a reference to the chicken and the egg in that post, but thought that might be too on the nose (or beak)
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Old 02-16-2019, 09:55 AM   #50
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Criterion just announced 1080p releases of "Blue Velvet" and "The Heiress", from 4K restorations. Hey Criterion, can we please have "Blue Velvet" on UHD? An ideal candidate for sure for the expanded gamut and shadow detail of UHD!
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:01 PM   #51
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Every month or so I’ll Google “Criterion 4K UHD” in hope of news.

This happens to be the most recent discussion. I think I’m at 120 Criterion blu-rays and 140 4K UHD discs, though I haven’t purchased a Criterion title in 18 months and will not buy another Criterion release until they release titles in 4K UHD.

My movie budget is decent, but still has its limit. And if the choice is between what’s coming out on 4K UHD or a Criterion blu-ray, 4K UHD wins every time. That choice changes when Criterion gets behind 4K UHD. Then I will put the Criterion 4K UHD release first every time.

On Criterion’s spreadsheet I’m someone who has stopped buying physical media. But it would not reflect the real demand.

I know they’re pushing streaming, but streaming Criterion titles in HD isn’t where I’m going to spend my time. In the event I want to watch a Criterion title, I’ll go to Apple TV to rent it.

It would be a shame if Criterion made the mistake of shooting for the middle of the market with streaming.

It’s easy to say and tough to do, but a brand has to do the things that people would pay for. We cannot buy Criterion 4K UHD titles if Criterion does not release them, and until then, potential sales are just a guess.

I do know they are falling short of key words in their mission, though:

“Since 1984, the Criterion Collection has been dedicated to publishing important classic and contemporary films from around the world in editions that offer the highest technical quality and award-winning, original supplements.”
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:04 PM   #52
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Baffled to read post like the one above. You’ve stopped purchasing Criterion releases entirely because they haven’t begun releasing 4K disc? Man you’re missing out on some great titles and supplements.

I hope everyone here realizes that when/if Criterion does go UHD that it will be only for select titles and entirely dependent on the condition/native resolution of source elements.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:22 PM   #53
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Just give me Black Narcissus in 4K HDR. Even if they never release another one...I need that one.
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:04 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisTylerBlack View Post
Baffled to read post like the one above. Youíve stopped purchasing Criterion releases entirely because they havenít begun releasing 4K disc? Man youíre missing out on some great titles and supplements.

I hope everyone here realizes that when/if Criterion does go UHD that it will be only for select titles and entirely dependent on the condition/native resolution of source elements.
Whatís baffling?

$200-$300 spent a month on entertainment.
Worthwhile 4K UHD content available per month > $300

Criterion not participating in 4K UHD, even for select titles, has relegated them to 0% wallet share.

Say Criterion starts releasing select 4K UHD titles and still releases other titles in blu-ray. Beyond me buying the 4K UHD titles, that is a signal to me, the consumer, that Criterion is doing the best that they can do and I should buy the blu-ray with reasonable confidence it wonít be upgraded anytime soon.

As another poster pointed out, weíre at the end of the format lifecycle, even by Criterionís own support of LaserDisc, DVD and blu-ray.

Iím phasing out my blu-rays and buying 4K UHD. I will buy 4K UHD before I rent 4K, and I will rent 4K before I commit to paying subscription services for 4K. You can imagine from there how far down the list streaming HD is.

Iím sure their recent blu-ray releases are stellar. Doesnít mean Iíll buy them.
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:09 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisTylerBlack View Post
Baffled to read post like the one above. Youíve stopped purchasing Criterion releases entirely because they havenít begun releasing 4K disc? Man youíre missing out on some great titles and supplements.

I hope everyone here realizes that when/if Criterion does go UHD that it will be only for select titles and entirely dependent on the condition/native resolution of source elements.
Iíve been wary of purchasing Criterion Blu-rays lately as I wonder if they will enter the market soon and re-release some titles in UHD. Criterion discs are a big expense for me and I donít want to double-dip for an even more expensive 4K UltraHD Blu-ray. Iíd rather wait and see if they do start releasing 4K UHD Blu-rays and then buy those knowing that Iíll never need to upgrade them.
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Old 03-23-2019, 05:32 AM   #56
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I could see Roma and/or The Other Side of the Wind being the first 4k/UHD releases, since they're both in Dolby Vision on Netflix already, and they are both rumored to be in the works - Roma (in the comments) & The Other Side of the Wind. Actually it would be a little disappointing if Criterion released them only on DVD and Blu-ray, since it would be a step down from Netflix's picture quality.
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Old 05-19-2019, 04:32 AM   #57
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Some of the mods from the Home Theater Forum will being doing an interview with Criterion's Lee Kline on July 2nd and they are taking questions from their members. Someone has asked if they have any UHD plans, so hopefully that question is selected and we'll have some positive news from the interview.
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Old 05-19-2019, 05:37 AM   #58
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Old 05-19-2019, 05:59 PM   #59
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I am quite happy with most of their Black and White films, *redone from a new
4k Master slapped onto a 1080p disc. The blu rays in black and white that are released from non-4k masters are not BIG upgrades anyway.

I'll wait for other studios to release Criterion Collection color films in 4K , before getting my hopes up for 4k+Br combo packs of those titles.

My last 3 Criterion was purchased Aug 28, 2016, Sept. 16 2016 and Nov. 13 2018. Only because I know of no other way to own these titles in highest quality on Region 1.
- Woman in the Dunes
- The Story of the Last Chrysanthemum
- A Story from Chikamatsu
I will continue buying their classic Japanese movies in B&W and just 1080p blu ray too if they're ones I want.

But when it comes to color movies. If...1968(Have CC of this), Insomnia 1997 (Have CC of this), Breakfast Club (Have Universal Studios), Barry Lyndon (Have WB), The Princess Bride (Have this from whatever studio released it first), 1984 (dont have), Stalker 1979 (dont have) etc.

I'm waiting for a different studio to release them in 4K Ultra UHD. And every other title. Not caring what Criterion releases in color movie segment anymore.

If you think about it 4K is region free and will that hurt Criterion?? I'm also not sure what the ration of b&W to color blu rays on criterion are??

Which is more b&w or color on blu ray? anyone have the stat 4 that? Either way they should in my honest opion release color films in 4k+br and stop the br 1080p releases now and make 4k/1080p combo packs. Like I said I have no problem waiting but the first studio to put out 4ks of their classic color films i wont hesitate.

Last edited by KubrickKurasawa; 05-19-2019 at 06:10 PM.
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Old 05-19-2019, 07:58 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KubrickKurasawa View Post
I am quite happy with most of their Black and White films, *redone from a new
4k Master slapped onto a 1080p disc. The blu rays in black and white that are released from non-4k masters are not BIG upgrades anyway.

I'll wait for other studios to release Criterion Collection color films in 4K , before getting my hopes up for 4k+Br combo packs of those titles.

My last 3 Criterion was purchased Aug 28, 2016, Sept. 16 2016 and Nov. 13 2018. Only because I know of no other way to own these titles in highest quality on Region 1.
- Woman in the Dunes
- The Story of the Last Chrysanthemum
- A Story from Chikamatsu
I will continue buying their classic Japanese movies in B&W and just 1080p blu ray too if they're ones I want.

But when it comes to color movies. If...1968(Have CC of this), Insomnia 1997 (Have CC of this), Breakfast Club (Have Universal Studios), Barry Lyndon (Have WB), The Princess Bride (Have this from whatever studio released it first), 1984 (dont have), Stalker 1979 (dont have) etc.

I'm waiting for a different studio to release them in 4K Ultra UHD. And every other title. Not caring what Criterion releases in color movie segment anymore.

If you think about it 4K is region free and will that hurt Criterion?? I'm also not sure what the ration of b&W to color blu rays on criterion are??

Which is more b&w or color on blu ray? anyone have the stat 4 that? Either way they should in my honest opion release color films in 4k+br and stop the br 1080p releases now and make 4k/1080p combo packs. Like I said I have no problem waiting but the first studio to put out 4ks of their classic color films i wont hesitate.
Why would Region free hurt them? Because of higher rights prices?
I think it would be a benefit to just release one disc instead of two.
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