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Judgment (PS4)
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View Poll Results: When do you think PS5 will be announced?
2018 6 2.58%
2019 82 35.19%
2020 111 47.64%
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:06 PM   #2001
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Originally Posted by Derb View Post
You wouldn’t want that option.

The dead zone sensitivity in the Nintendo Pro Controller is more narrow giving you less accuracy.
Believe it or not im the pariah of this forum I actually dont play FPS so dead zone for me wouldn't really matter. I do like other wish Sony would develop a real pro controller, aside from Live I've always believed Xbox controller is miles ahead of the dualshock controllers.
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:37 PM   #2002
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Believe it or not im the pariah of this forum I actually dont play FPS so dead zone for me wouldn't really matter. I do like other wish Sony would develop a real pro controller, aside from Live I've always believed Xbox controller is miles ahead of the dualshock controllers.
Although Sony doesn't do an in house Pro controller, there are Xbox layout and customisable layout PS4 controllers out there like the Nacon Revolution and Astro CT40R.

Personally i want an own brand Sony copying the rubberised Elite V2 grips, profiles, hair triggers etc. and thumbstick tension adjustment all wrapped up the inevitable DualShock 5 format.

Personally would love to get one on sale at some point and have Sony allow devs to enable more PC like toggle settings for 1080p in regards to fps at 120 etc. eSports, Twitch and in game tournaments are really coming along and allow the best of the best or enthusiasts ro duke it out for money prizes.

For regular players there's always the base stock controller. So those willing to pay more are catered for. Its far easier imo buying a Pro controller that can handle different game types like FPS, fighting and racing for a single £100 or so than buying a full on racing wheel with peddles, fighting stick etc.

We need MS and Sony to both cater to the now massive market of gamers and all the different groups and their needs.
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Old 06-17-2019, 10:07 PM   #2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3P0 View Post
Believe it or not im the pariah of this forum I actually dont play FPS so dead zone for me wouldn't really matter. I do like other wish Sony would develop a real pro controller, aside from Live I've always believed Xbox controller is miles ahead of the dualshock controllers.
I think we all can agree we’d like a First Party Pro Sony Controller.

I’ve tested other competitors consoles Controllers like Nintendo & MS on Sony’s PS4. The biggest standout to me anyways has always been the spread of the dead zone.

So for a few examples using Nintendo on non FPS related games.. When you slightly move up on the analog it doesn’t register mid range movement on a third person character driven game meaning if the game has a Walk, Run, Fast Run, you only have the option to Walk & Run. When using the right analog to pan camera, the same thing applies. You get less range making it harder to pinpoint where you would like to see.

With Xbox on PS4, you actually get more area so you can be a little more accurate than a PS4 Controller depending on your sensitivity. Days Gone is a good example. Your character moves very easily compared to DS4.
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Old 06-17-2019, 11:55 PM   #2004
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I think some find with controllers, adding on 3rd party thumb grips like "Kontrolfreeks" give you better range of motion for shooting. The thing is although they're relatively inexpensive, it's not going to offer the quality of built for purpose additional thumbstick tension adjustability and analogue stick sizes like you can do on a Pro controller like Elite V2. So it's still a "Poor Man's" option to try and emulate what a Pro controller gives. I genuinely think Sony need to affirm their commitment next gen even moreso to being gamer centric and appealing to those now involved in streaming and enthusiast level playing for games whether it be racing, FPS or fighting with additional controller offerings from themselves.

There's something i am curious about though for PS5. MS comes out and says they're 100% having hardware based Ray Tracing. Sony on the other hand mentioned it but then said RT audio was a use of it. Digital Foundry had a video saying AMD basically said they'll be using pseudo RT and not hardware based until down the line at their press conference when talking Ryzen and Navi. So it begs the question, is AMD deliberately not mentioning RT hardware solutions this year in preparation for newer GPUs next year with them to sell for the PC market and to supply Sony & MS with custom hardware RT thus not affecting sales of the newly announced GPUs or is it conceivable that MS has another custom hardware partner to integrate RT hardware and Sony is using pseudo RT?

If Sony was waiting for MS to blink and reveal something interesting. Perhaps they may have found that hardware based RT interesting and are possibly able to alter pseuo RT to a hardware based version last minute.
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Old 06-18-2019, 12:36 AM   #2005
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I’m thinking there is a hardware implementation & they had to sign an NDA with AMD about its details because AMD wants a time & place to reveal.
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Old 06-18-2019, 05:25 PM   #2006
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Originally Posted by NARMAK View Post
I think some find with controllers, adding on 3rd party thumb grips like "Kontrolfreeks" give you better range of motion for shooting. The thing is although they're relatively inexpensive, it's not going to offer the quality of built for purpose additional thumbstick tension adjustability and analogue stick sizes like you can do on a Pro controller like Elite V2. So it's still a "Poor Man's" option to try and emulate what a Pro controller gives. I genuinely think Sony need to affirm their commitment next gen even moreso to being gamer centric and appealing to those now involved in streaming and enthusiast level playing for games whether it be racing, FPS or fighting with additional controller offerings from themselves.

There's something i am curious about though for PS5. MS comes out and says they're 100% having hardware based Ray Tracing. Sony on the other hand mentioned it but then said RT audio was a use of it. Digital Foundry had a video saying AMD basically said they'll be using pseudo RT and not hardware based until down the line at their press conference when talking Ryzen and Navi. So it begs the question, is AMD deliberately not mentioning RT hardware solutions this year in preparation for newer GPUs next year with them to sell for the PC market and to supply Sony & MS with custom hardware RT thus not affecting sales of the newly announced GPUs or is it conceivable that MS has another custom hardware partner to integrate RT hardware and Sony is using pseudo RT?

If Sony was waiting for MS to blink and reveal something interesting. Perhaps they may have found that hardware based RT interesting and are possibly able to alter pseuo RT to a hardware based version last minute.
Yes AMD is waiting to announce. There is a big game going on right now with Nvidia and AMD, and frankly I dont think RT is at all hardware based on anything yet. The latest or coming soon Nvidia drivers now expand RT to almost all of their current gen cards including the 1660ti. I think RT is still massively software based.

https://www.pcmag.com/news/367247/nv...0-series-cards

The RTX cards support DXRT but that still does not mean the hardware itself is doing the rendering.

Nvidia has the upgraded cards spec and ready to go as seen below with SUPER in the name

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GeForce RTX 2080 Ti: 4,352 CUDA cores, TU102-300 GPU, 11GB GDDR6 (14Gbps)
GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER: 3,072 CUDA cores, TU104-450 GPU, 8GB GDDR6 (16Gbps)
GeForce RTX 2080: 2,944 CUDA cores, TU104-410 GPU, 8GB GDDR6 (14Gbps)
GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER: 2,560 CUDA cores, TU104-410 GPU, 8GB GDDR6 (14Gbps)
GeForce RTX 2070: 2,304 CUDA cores, TU106-410 GPU, 8GB GDDR6 (14Gbps)
GeForce RTX 2060 SUPER: 2,176 CUDA cores, TU106-410 GPU, 8GB GDDR6 (14Gbps)
GeForce RTX 2060: 1,920 CUDA cores, TU106-200 GPU, 6GB GDDR6 (14Gbps)
It is possible these SUPER cards actually are hardware based RT but I would imagine that will be next years cards to match Navi.
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Old 06-18-2019, 05:48 PM   #2007
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The RTX cards support DXRT but that still does not mean the hardware itself is doing the rendering.
The RTX cards basically have a core that accelerates the process.

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First up though, it's worth explaining what sets an RTX card apart from a GTX product and by extension, how ray tracing works. First of all, the GPU creates the structure that the rays will be shot at - the Bounding Volume Hierarchy, or BVH. Then the rays are shot at the BVH - and that's what Nvidia's RT core accelerates. Finally, there's another expensive step: denoising. Because only a relatively tiny amount of rays can be shot, the results you get back are very patchy/noisy - this needs to be processed into something more visually palatable. The bottom line though? In three demanding processes, only one is accelerated by RTX - and the RT core can be emulated by compute shaders, which is how 10-series cards can be brought into the mix.
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And to be clear here, the entire ray tracing procedure is carried out by Windows via the DXR API. DXR doesn't require hardware acceleration, your GPU just needs to have sufficient RAM and DX12 support. While 10/16-series ray tracing support is now enabled, there is nothing to stop AMD releasing their own DXR support for its existing line-up of graphics hardware - and owing to their heavy bias towards GPU compute, we could see some surprises there.
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Old 06-18-2019, 09:23 PM   #2008
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Wasn't there a bit about how Nvida is the only one doing GPUs with hardware on their RTX line but to help and compete with AMD they decided to do software based Ray Tracing via GTX cards? This would help explain why AMD isn't doing any hardware stuff this year for RT but Sony & MS are using a 2020 spec for a hardware based RT GPU.
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Old 06-19-2019, 12:10 PM   #2009
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I think they're putting it on older cards to try and increase available users that will in turn spur developers to use it more. I've not spent much time researching PC tech lately as I have in the past so some of this may be wrong but this is what I gather. As I bolded it's essentially Windows API that handles the RT. The only difference between Nvidia cards and the AMD cards is that Nvidia has a special core that accelerates the process. When RT is used on AMD cards or non RTX NVIDIA cards it's all purely through hardware grunt which explains the lesser performance. Back in the day think of Quake 2 running on a software renderer vs a dedicated accelerator card (gpu). Since the roadmap for AMD currently doesn't show any additional hardware based acceleration we're left to assume that them or a third party could be making an additional accelerator chip that's going on the mobo to help with RT. Otherwise it might be pretty difficult to have RT at high res and framerates.

Last edited by dyne; 06-19-2019 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:18 PM   #2010
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I think you could be onto something with the Nvidia and AMD pushing RT even non-hardware based to have devs start using it more and practice. Mainly because they're able to release patches and have that RT experience pave the way for future use.

Personally i think RT won't come into its own properly until very late in the gen or most likely until PS6 or whatever they decide it will be swings around.
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Old 06-20-2019, 09:45 AM   #2011
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Personally i think RT won't come into its own properly until very late in the gen or most likely until PS6 or whatever they decide it will be swings around.
Yup. Thats why I said RT is little more than a useless buzzword. Same with 8K. I know platform providers love to use these words when launching a new console but, Jesus can we please consistently hit 4K/60fps first?
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:27 AM   #2012
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Does the backwards compatibility include PS1 discs?
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Old 06-20-2019, 01:25 PM   #2013
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Does the backwards compatibility include PS1 discs?
As of now, Sony has made no mention of backwards compatibility beyond PS4 titles. I'm sure we will get more detail on this in the coming months.
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Old 06-20-2019, 03:26 PM   #2014
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Yup. Thats why I said RT is little more than a useless buzzword. Same with 8K. I know platform providers love to use these words when launching a new console but, Jesus can we please consistently hit 4K/60fps first?
Except its not just a buzzword several games right now have RT on them the big ones being Battlefield V and Shadow of the Tomb Raider

It will be on the next COD: MW so at this point your 2 biggest FPS will support it.
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Old 06-20-2019, 06:19 PM   #2015
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Except its not just a buzzword several games right now have RT on them the big ones being Battlefield V and Shadow of the Tomb Raider

It will be on the next COD: MW so at this point your 2 biggest FPS will support it.
High end PC's, yes. But not consoles and I'm not sure even next gen consoles will be able to make ample use of it.
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Old 06-20-2019, 06:33 PM   #2016
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High end PC's, yes. But not consoles and I'm not sure even next gen consoles will be able to make ample use of it.
Well as of right now both manufactures of the Next Gen consoles say RT will be part of the standard setup so its a valid discussion argument at this time. and if both consoles can do 8k 120 im sure 4k 60 will be perfect on PS5 and XboxTwo

Keep in mind Midrange PC's can now do RT as well any Nvidia card 1660 and above can do it with the latest round of patches so 250 USD cards and above basically. 1060, 1070, 1080, 1660, 2060, 2070, 2080 and all ti models
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Old 06-20-2019, 06:47 PM   #2017
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Originally Posted by R3P0 View Post
and if both consoles can do 8k 120
To pull this off the games will have to look like N64 titles.


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Originally Posted by R3P0 View Post
Keep in mind Midrange PC's can now do RT as well any Nvidia card 1660 and above can do it with the latest round of patches so 250 USD cards and above basically. 1060, 1070, 1080, 1660, 2060, 2070, 2080 and all ti models
Yes but aren't the frame rates pretty bad on the non RTX cards?

Last edited by dyne; 06-20-2019 at 07:08 PM.
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Old 06-20-2019, 08:36 PM   #2018
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To pull this off the games will have to look like N64 titles.




Yes but aren't the frame rates pretty bad on the non RTX cards?
No Idea I own a 780 GTX lol, the non RTX cards are not really 4K cards so I guess if they are bumped up aside from the 1080ti it will be horrible. I am sure on the Titan line it looks fine
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Old 06-20-2019, 09:06 PM   #2019
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Except its not just a buzzword several games right now have RT on them the big ones being Battlefield V and Shadow of the Tomb Raider

It will be on the next COD: MW so at this point your 2 biggest FPS will support it.
Even if they have RT, Digital Foundry has found that even on the absolutely best GPUs out there, it's an incredibly taxing process on the cards to power and keep framerates up with high settings.

Some of the implementation also isn't as groundbreaking as RT can be just yet. It's very early days and the hardwares not powerful enough to properly output in the way it is showcased really at any friendly consumer prices.

Also, 8K at 120fps is NOT going to happen! It's simply impossible on even high end single cards at any decent detail settings. PS5 and NextBox won't be anywhere near as powerful. We'll be lucky to have a consistent 1080p @ 120fps possible. 4K native at 60fps hopefully isn't a pipe dream. PS4 gen had its devs sometimes not even hit native 1080p from launch.

8K is a ridiculous buzzword like mentioned. PS6 will be lucky to get it and i' m confident in saying 4K will become the actual target resolution of even PS6 gen with higher fidelity graphics and framerates. Think 4K 120fps or up to 240fps. I feel like in the next 10 years, we will see regular TVs adopt 120fps and certain onces embrace higher refresh rates up to like 240hz and output with VRR etc.
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:53 PM   #2020
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To be fair my laptop RTX 2070mq can pump out BFV on max settings with Ray tracing set to max at about 30fps (which in the PC world is an archaic framerate) but would be the norm on consoles.

Now if I turn the settings down to medium to match current consoles then it happily runs at 70fps+

So a next gen console should really be able to Ray tracing in some capacity whilst keeping to the basic 30/60fps.

Something that should also be pointed out is that no game currently employs all various ray tracing techniques as a whole.

The three main games that use it each use ray tracing to achieve a desired effect.

BFV for example uses it for real time reflections, Tomb Raider uses it for real time shadows and Metro Exodus uses Global Illumination.

Out of the three global Illumination is the most impressive, the real time shadows is the least impressive and BFV falls somewhere in between.

The global Illumination in Metro really changes the atmosphere of the game and adds more to the experience with it on.

Now the real goal would be to have a game that incorporates all those different techniques in to one complete package, but I really dont know if that will happen any time soon.


And whilst still on the topic of Ray tracing, Gran Turismo Sport on the PS4 actually uses Ray Tracing for is global Illumination system. It's all pre baked though not real time, that's why theres no real time weather effects etc.
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