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Old 04-20-2011, 04:35 AM   #21
Big Daddy Big Daddy is offline
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Originally Posted by Kali157 View Post
Thanks for all the work and the response.
No problem. I am glad I can be helpful.
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Old 04-20-2011, 04:43 AM   #22
HAMP HAMP is offline
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Originally Posted by Big Daddy View Post
The surround sound in my home theater is so good that I sometimes intentionally turn off the front speakers to just listen to the surround speakers.
I totally understand this comment, because I have made a similar statement concerning my side surrounds. I felt they sounded so good, that they could be used as front left and right speakers. I'm very proud of those purchases(all four).

It's just my rears are unable to use a back wall right now, and they are lacking compared to the sides. They are not bad, just lacking.
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Old 04-20-2011, 01:24 PM   #23
spaceape spaceape is offline
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Thank you so much for all your work Big Daddy.
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Old 04-20-2011, 01:37 PM   #24
Genocide316 Genocide316 is offline
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The first thing you should do is try to rearrange the room so that your sofa is not against the wall. When you sit against the wall, the bass becomes too loud and boomy. Sitting in a corner and having a suwoofer placed another corner against the walls will make the bass very tiring and may give you a headache after a couple of hours. In general, there should be as much distance between the listening sofa and the rear wall as your room will allow.

It really doesn't matter whether the surround speakers are attached to the side walls or to the rear wall as long as both of them have the same height and are on the same line.

In your current setup, you can attach one surround speaker to the side wall and attach the other one to the ceiling with a couple of angled and straight brackets from Home Depot. The brackets have hole in them and you can use screws and nuts to attach them together to make sure the height of both seakers is the same. Three of my surround speakers are attached to the ceiling with these type of brackets. Only one is attached to the side wall. The brackets are relatively inexpensive.

The other option is to attach one surround speaker to the side wall and put the other one on a tall speaker stand as in the following diagram. Make sure the height of the two speakers is the same.



First off thank you for your response! I find all of your posts incredibly helpful. Trust me if I could pull that couch off the wall I would. Due to the room layout and some pre WAF (not my wife until next year lol) This is the only current way it can go (or swap it 180 degrees and put my couch back to the curtains. To the left of the TV in that picture is a fireplace and next to that is the front door. I'm basically standing in the walkway from the dining room/rest of the house that leads to the front door. Not very optimal.
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:24 PM   #25
Matty_J Matty_J is offline
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Thank you for the time and research you put into this thread!
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:51 PM   #26
crazyBLUE crazyBLUE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matty_J View Post
Thank you for the time and research you put into this thread!
This is not from researching Matty_j ~ Big Daddy knows all this stuff from 300 years Oh I mean 30 years of experience.
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Old 04-21-2011, 12:19 AM   #27
Big Daddy Big Daddy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matty_J View Post
Thank you for the time and research you put into this thread!
Thank you. It is a lot of work, but it makes me happy to help others who are just starting with home theater.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyBLUE View Post
This is not from researching Matty_j ~ Big Daddy knows all this stuff from 300 years Oh I mean 30 years of experience.
I am not that young, but thanks for the compliment. I started with my associate Thomas Edison many years ago.
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Old 04-21-2011, 03:17 AM   #28
Almadacr Almadacr is offline
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Thanks Big Daddy , i just put a hold on the Bipole`s that i ordered , and made the wife unhappy because i want dipole , but i had a great excuse , she said it dosen`t look good but i said it sounds good , My only question is as you can see in my pictures i will be replacing the black KEF`s with the dipoles but i have to keep the ones in the back were they are . Do you think this will be a much difference or interference from your ideal positioning in the drawings ?
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Old 04-21-2011, 03:48 AM   #29
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Which manufacture did you put a hold on, and with which did you order the other?

Most and I know not all, have a select switch on them to be either di or bi-pole.

Do you plan to put the di-pole in the same place as the Kef's?
That doesn't look like a good place. It' hard to see how your room is from the pics.
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Old 04-21-2011, 03:51 AM   #30
Big Daddy Big Daddy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Almadacr View Post
Thanks Big Daddy , i just put a hold on the Bipole`s that i ordered , and made the wife unhappy because i want dipole , but i had a great excuse , she said it dosen`t look good but i said it sounds good , My only question is as you can see in my pictures i will be replacing the black KEF`s with the dipoles but i have to keep the ones in the back were they are . Do you think this will be a much difference or interference from your ideal positioning in the drawings ?
First of all, put a large thick and attractive area rug on the floor in the front of the room to control some of the higher frequency reflections from the floor. In the future, it may not be a bad idea to use some wall treatment. I urge you to consult a divorce laywer before you do that.

Don't buy dipole surround speakers unless you can put them on the side walls exactly on the same line as your listening sofa (90 degree angle) so that you are sitting in their null area. Check the diagrams in post #1.

If you can't place the dipole surround speakers as suggested above, you are much better off buying bipole surround speakers. Bipole speakers are more flexible as far as placement is concerned and have better bass response than dipole speakers.

Both bipole and dipole speakers have a more diffuse and large soundfields than monoploe speakers. You may immediately feel the difference, but it may take a while before your brain begins to adjust to the new sound. They create a better surround experience for everyone sitting in the room. They are not as sweet spot centric as monopole surround speakers.

Surround speakers do not have to be from the same line as the front speakers. There are plenty of bipole/dipole surround manufacturers. If you want realtively attractive, good performing, and competitively priced speakers, check Home Theater Direct (HTD). Their Level Three surround speakers are only $189 each and have ribbon tweeters.

http://www.htd.com/Products/level-th...THREE-Surround

Last edited by Big Daddy; 04-21-2011 at 04:00 AM.
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Old 04-21-2011, 03:56 AM   #31
Almadacr Almadacr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAMP View Post
Which manufacture did you put a hold on, and with which did you order the other?

Most and I know not all, have a select switch on them to be either di or bi-pole.

Do you plan to put the di-pole in the same place as the Kef's?
That doesn't look like a good place. It' hard to see how your room is from the pics.
I was going from polk monitors 30 from a seller at ebay , and i was going at the FXi A4 , tomorrow i will take a picture of the end of the room with a wide angle .
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Old 04-21-2011, 04:09 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Almadacr View Post
I was going from polk monitors 30 from a seller at ebay , and i was going at the FXi A4 , tomorrow i will take a picture of the end of the room with a wide angle .
The FXi's A4 and the same from the link Big Daddy provided, they are selectable, so you can play with the di-pole or bi-pole configuration.

I too should take a few other angle pics, because someone has told me it's hard to really see how the room is from my pics.

I did make a vid and that helped, but I think I should take more angle pics like you.
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Old 04-21-2011, 05:15 PM   #33
Almadacr Almadacr is offline
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Ok so i took some angled pictures . I am sitting 10ft away from my tv , from the center of my couch to the side speakers angle down is 6ft , from the floor to the speaker is 7ft high the window in the back is huge i only have 1ft1/2 from the wall to the window since it gives access to the back balcony . Also the floors are hardwood .




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Old 04-21-2011, 11:17 PM   #34
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Hey Almadacr, looking at the new picís really helps to understand your layout, compared to what I thought. When I viewed your gallery, I was thinking you were showing the back wall and not both sides.

Donít forget to put them in your gallery.

I see that you canít move your rears closer, but from the looks of it, adding the new di/bi-pole to the sides will work out perfectly. If you put your new speakers where the blacks ones are, It looks like it will be the 90degree angle for di-pole, and if you decide to move your couch a little closer to the TV, then you can select the bi-pole.

Looks like your all good to go, just got to get the speakers you and your wife likes
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Old 04-22-2011, 12:05 AM   #35
Big Daddy Big Daddy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Almadacr View Post
Ok so i took some angled pictures . I am sitting 10ft away from my tv , from the center of my couch to the side speakers angle down is 6ft , from the floor to the speaker is 7ft high the window in the back is huge i only have 1ft1/2 from the wall to the window since it gives access to the back balcony . Also the floors are hardwood .
If you put a thick and large area rug in front of the speakers, it will reduce some of the refrections of the higher frequencies from the wood floor and it may help their imaging.

As far as surround speakers are concerned, you can use two bipole/dipole surround speakers. If you can place them exactly within the 90 degree area, use them as dipole. If not, use them as bipole.

It may help if you bring the surround speakers a little lower. Ideally, they should be around 2-3 feet above your head when you are sitting down. Bring them down about a foot or so. They will still be high enough so that you won't have to bang your head against them.

If you decide to replace the rear speakers with bipole/dipole speaker, you can bring them forward and attach them to the ceiling. I have six surround speakers. Three of them are attached to the ceiling with angled brackets from Home Depot.




http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053

If you are going to put bipole/dipole rear speakers in exactly the same locations (top rear corners), don't bother to replace them. The monople speakers will work better in the corners. Bipole/dipole speakers need some room on both sides to have their maximum effect.

Don't mix bipole and dipole modes. Either use all four speakers as bipole or all of them as dipole.

Last edited by Big Daddy; 04-22-2011 at 02:34 AM.
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Old 04-22-2011, 01:43 AM   #36
Almadacr Almadacr is offline
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Thanks guys i will only will be hading the side ones , the back ones in the top corner they will stay as they are , i like the way they interact with the rest of the speakers .

Hamp regarding the distance from the couch i will keep it at that since i want to ad a 92inch screen and a projector .
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Old 04-22-2011, 02:32 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Almadacr View Post
Thanks guys i will only will be hading the side ones , the back ones in the top corner they will stay as they are , i like the way they interact with the rest of the speakers .

Hamp regarding the distance from the couch i will keep it at that since i want to ad a 92inch screen and a projector .
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Old 04-22-2011, 02:46 PM   #38
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Great thread BD. Food for thought on my next upgrade!
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Old 04-22-2011, 05:17 PM   #39
kurtlingle kurtlingle is offline
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Hi BigDaddy! Thanks so much for all this great info. Read through both threads on Bipole/Dipole - very cool stuff - I learned ALOT.

So, I followed your link to the Level3 speakers - I also saw the Level2 bi/dipole for $129. What would be the difference?

http://www.htd.com/Products/level-tw...l-TWO-Surround

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy View Post
There are plenty of bipole/dipole surround manufacturers. If you want realtively attractive, good performing, and competitively priced speakers, check Home Theater Direct (HTD). Their Level Three surround speakers are only $189 each and have ribbon tweeters.

http://www.htd.com/Products/level-th...THREE-Surround
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:00 AM   #40
Big Daddy Big Daddy is offline
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Great thread BD. Food for thought on my next upgrade!
Thank you. The problem is that food for thought will eventually cost you money.
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