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Old 06-14-2016, 09:19 AM   #41
Derb Derb is offline
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I wouldn't want White Xbox One S. I know it'll receive other flavours of colors & most likely game themed bundles.
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Old 06-14-2016, 10:01 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Edword View Post
Even with this announced I'll still pick up the Xbox One S. I'll probably trade in my current XB1 towards it.

Seeing how they are touting true 4K gaming with the Scorpio I'm weary of the starting price for that thing. I can't see it being cheaper than $450. I'll probably wait a year or two on the Scorpio...unless we're getting a new console generation by that point.
Phil Spencer said this is 'beyond generations', so basically they'll keep releasing upgraded versions every few years, all games will be backward and forward compatible, only difference is the performance

consoles will be PCs
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Old 06-14-2016, 11:53 AM   #43
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Yep, generations were officially laid to rest at E3.
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Old 06-14-2016, 12:17 PM   #44
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XBOX: START TO CONTINUE

An exclusive look inside Microsoft’s plan to turn your Xbox into a PC



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Next fall it will be joined by yet another Xbox One, codenamed Project Scorpio. More powerful than the One S, Scorpio will operate at six teraflops, powerful enough to play both 4K-native games and virtual reality experiences (with the addition of an as-of-yet-unknown VR headset). According to Spencer, the improvement between Scorpio and the current Xbox One will be immediately noticeable. "I actually think the upgrade to Scorpio in terms of visual fidelity will feel as dramatic of a change as we’re used to seeing in new generations," he said.

But one of the most significant initiatives doesn’t revolve around a single console, Spencer said — it touches all of them. For decades console gamers have been faced with a persistent problem: when you finally upgrade to a new device, you’re essentially starting over from scratch, building up a new library of games. I can still play my dusty old copy of the first Diablo on my new PC, but apart from a few platforms that offer backwards compatibility, console games live in one console generation. Microsoft has slowly been adding Xbox 360-game support to the Xbox One, but now it plans to radically expand that initiative. Moving forward, Microsoft wants to bring the PC approach to consoles, treating all Xbox One games the same: they’ll all work no matter which iteration of the hardware you own. The next Halo will look better if you have Project Scorpio and a new 4K television to take advantage of all its capabilities, but it will still work on your current machine. "The idea is that wherever we are from the 360 generation on," Spencer says of the ability to carry over your library to new devices, "we’re investing in Xbox Live and content so that as you upgrade the experience moves with you."
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But is the strategy is good for consumers? If Microsoft succeeds, the game console will be yet another device like your phone, in need of an upgrade every two years or so. Spencer says he expects new games will continue to work on older consoles "for a long time." And while I may technically be able to run the latest Xbox One games on my original hardware, that doesn’t mean I won’t be looking at the splendid 4K visuals on Project Scorpio with envy. But Spencer believes that choice is the key factor to this paradigm shift.

"What we’re saying is that we’re going to ship Xbox One games, and those games will run on Xbox One, run on Xbox One S, and run on Scorpio," he explained. "Am I going to run games in 4K on the Xbox One that I bought? No, you’re not. I’ll say the same things that I say to my 360 customers today: you love what you have on the 360, keep buying and playing games on your 360. Yes, I agree that there will be some people at the front end that will say, ‘Hey, I always want the latest and greatest,’ and for those people the upgrade cycle could feel shorter. But I’m not going to force that on you. I’m going to let you know that you get to make the choice."

The other question is how long the strategy will last. Microsoft has been talking about many of these features for quite some time, and only now are they being implemented in a serious way. In less than three years, Xbox One has already gone through multiple identity crises: from an entertainment system, back to gaming, and now toward a PC. Microsoft’s gaming efforts appear to be heading in the right direction, but if Project Scorpio fails to ignite Xbox One sales, who knows what the sales pitch will be two years from now.
More at the link above.
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Old 06-14-2016, 12:53 PM   #45
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Long post ahead, go to the link if you like http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/di...-spec-analysis

Spec Analysis: Xbox Project Scorpio

"Removing barriers... Innovation and the latest technology... delivering the world's most powerful console is something we absolutely want to do... the most powerful graphics processor that's been put into a game console... the highest res... the best frame-rate... no compromises... we can render at 60Hz... we can render fully uncompressed quality pixels... the best quality pixels... true 4K gaming..."

The pitch presented at the E3 press conference for Project Scorpio is plain and simple. While some of the claims sound a little bizarre or straight-out laughable (uncompressed pixels?), Microsoft aims to regain control of the technological high ground with its own mid-generation console refresh. What we're looking at here is an ambitious leap-frogging of the PlayStation 4K Neo in technological terms, with Microsoft utilising the top-tier parts available from hardware partner AMD - technology we've yet to see fully revealed in the PC space.

Actual performance figures and hard specs are thin on the ground, but there's enough information here for us to put together a picture on what Scorpio offers and whether it can indeed deliver on the claims made for it.


GPU: Much faster than PlayStation Neo

First up, let's discuss the GPU - the area of the spec that Microsoft is clearly most proud of. The rumoured six TFLOPs of processing power is confirmed, out-stripping the 4.2TF found in PlayStation Neo by quite some margin. It's around 40 per cent faster, calling to mind the advantage PS4 had over Xbox One.

We know how Sony has achieved its performance target - it is almost certainly utilising the AMD Polaris 10 graphics core, using 36 next-gen GCN compute units clocked at 911MHz. Essentially, it is a downclocked version of the Radeon RX 480 graphics card - AMD's upcoming $199 next-gen GPU, aimed squarely at the mainstream gamer while also offering good, entry-level VR capabilities. We can be fairly sure that this GPU is a cut-down version of a yet-to-be-seen product, quite possibly one with 40 compute units. By leaving a portion of the CUs deactivated, imperfect chips can be used from the production line - it's a tactic used on both PS4 and Xbox One, both of which have two offline CUs on the silicon.

However, based on the differential in spec between Neo and Scorpio, it's unlikely that the new Microsoft console uses Polaris at all. A 40 CU part would need a mighty overclock to hit 6TF, and based on the rendered imagery we've seen, the heating assembly planned for Scorpio looks a little lacklustre. With that in mind, our money is on a downclocked version of AMD's upcoming Vega technology.

Thanks to an AMD engineer rather unwisely posting a partial spec for Vega on his LinkedIn profile (!) we know that the fully enabled processor features 64 compute units. Assuming that this is cut down to 56 CUs (as in the Radeon R9 Fury, a pared back version of the 64 CU Fury X), a clock speed in the 830-850MHz region looks likely. Alternatively, and perhaps more likely, we could be seeing 60 CUs at 800MHz. Both represent a substantial increase over PlayStation 4K Neo, while the raw increase to performance over PS4 and Xbox One is obviously much larger.



AMD's technology roadmap reveals the parts Sony and Microsoft have available. We know that Polaris 10 is in Neo, while a cut-back version of Vega seems like a likely fit for Scorpio.

Memory: 12GB of GDDR5?

Microsoft also dropped some hard figures in terms of memory bandwidth too, telling us that Scorpio has over 320GB/s of throughput. This gives us a couple of useful data points. Firstly, it's almost certainly the case that the ESRAM experiment on Xbox One is now a thing of the past - Microsoft will be following the approach pioneered by Sony in using a single, unified pool of memory based on PC graphics RAM technology. Which technology that is remains to be seen - will it be GDDR5 or the faster G5X found in Nvidia's GTX 1080?

The stated figure of 320GB/s can be achieved with 8GB of G5X using a 256-bit bus, or alternatively it could be using a 384-bit interface paired with 12GB of GDDR5. Now, this is where the stylised renderings of the Scorpio motherboard prove rather useful as we can count the amount of memory modules on the board - 12 memory chips are visible, confirming the use of current-gen memory tech and not the HBM2 we expect to see on Vega and Nvidia's next-gen Titan. This also seems to suggest that Scorpio has another big advantage over PlayStation 4K Neo - not just over 100GB/s more bandwidth, but also an additional 4GB of onboard RAM.

And this is a good thing for Microsoft in reaching its stated aim of handing in a worthy 4K experience - PlayStation Neo only offers up an additional 512MB of RAM for developers compared to the original PS4, meaning only limited space for higher resolution textures. Scorpio won't just deliver higher resolutions, but there'll be more space for higher detail textures. The only question will be on how quickly that RAM can be filled up - assuming that 5400rpm hard drives are still being used, 12GB will take a long time to fully occupy. On the flipside, we have heard from some developers that the 8GB of memory found in PlayStation Neo isn't quite enough to get the most out of 4K displays.



The orientation of the memory modules around the main processor strongly suggests that there are 12 DRAM chips here, indicating a 384-bit memory bus connected to 12GB of GDDR5.

CPU: Eight cores, but what are they?

Microsoft didn't spend much time talking about the CPU technology found in Scorpio and if we were to be cynical about it, we'd suggest that it's because it's not going to show that much improvement over Xbox One. Just one specification was revealed - that Scorpio would have eight CPU cores, which brings it into line with the existing Xbox One, PS4 and indeed PS4K Neo.

There are two theoretical CPU technologies available to Microsoft here - the existing Jaguar cores (or perhaps a more modern version thereof), or AMD's upcoming Zen technology. Weighing the balance of probabilities, we'd say that it's unlikely to be Zen - if it were, we'd expect Microsoft to have made a much bigger deal of it. But secondly, what we know of the eight-core Zen is that it's a high-end desktop processor that's likely to require a large area of silicon. Integrating that alongside an already large GPU core seems overly ambitious.

With that in mind, we expect the disparity between CPU power and GPU in the consoles to grow even wider, and the importance of DX12 and GPGPU grows even more important - more tasks traditionally associated with the CPU will be hived off to the graphics hardware instead. Assuming Scorpio is indeed still using AMD's more mobile-orientated CPU cores, we should at least expect higher clock-speeds there - PlayStation Neo runs its cores at 2.1GHz vs the 'stock' 1.6GHz found on PS4.



Hopes were high that Scorpio would features AMD's new Zen CPU technology. But here we see just one processor block. Combining a top-end CPU solution with a top-end GPU in a single slice of silicon would be enormously expensive, and require a better cooling solution than the one seen in Microsoft's reveal trailer.

Can Project Scorpio deliver the VR and 4K promises?

Based on existing AMD Radeon technology, the bottom line is that 6TF of GPU power isn't enough to power a convincing 4K experience. AMD's R9 390X offers around 5.9TF and struggles to push 4K resolution at anything like 30fps on modern PC titles. Now, we can assume that the move to the next-gen GCN architecture will give us some efficiency improvements, but it's hard to believe that this is enough to turn a 390X-level GPU into a top-tier Radeon R9 Fury X equivalent (8.4TF).

But it has to be said that we have seen developers start to extract more from Xbox One and PS4 than we see on equivalent PC parts - something borne out from the E3 demos of Gears of War 4 and Forza Horizon 3, which are - remarkably - running on hardware equivalent to AMD's £80 R7 360 graphics card. So maybe - maybe we will indeed see 4K native titles.

However, upscaling is equally as likely, and while it's not the true 4K we've been promised, this can produce some great results. For example, using Fury X on PC, we could run Star Wars Battlefront at 4K output but with an 85 per cent resolution scale. On top of that, we could increase quality settings over the console equivalents - and the end result looked phenomenal. We've also seen superb results from a straight 3200x1800 upscaled to 4K too. In terms of VR - that should be no problem. A 6TF Radeon GPU comfortably outperforms the baseline R9 290 and GTX 970 suggested for VR ready PCs.


Assuming Scorpio can delivery Fury X levels of performance, 4K gameplay may be out of reach for many games, but as seen in titles like Star Wars Battlefront - tested here - we can tweak settings and apply some gentle upscaling to get some phenomenal results.

Where does this leave PlayStation 4K Neo?

It's a remarkable turnabout. A good portion of PlayStation 4's success has been down to its spec advantage over Xbox One, combined with a focus on the hardcore player. Sony's technological advantage will be gone with the next wave of hardware - we already know that it cannot support true 4K resolution on cutting-edge games, because we've seen the internal documents that outline Sony's upscaling strategies for 4K display support (more on that soon). It's also unfeasible for Sony to produce a radically revised Neo - the silicon has been designed, developer kits have gone out. Matching Scorpio would require scrapping Neo's existing processor completely.

Just about the only option available to Sony is the route Microsoft chose for Xbox One in the face of PS4's higher specification - overclocking the processor. It could inch the Neo a little closer to the target Scorpio spec, but hitting 6TF there is off the table: Sony would need a 40 CU Polaris 10 clocked at 1.2GHz to hit the same level. And that wouldn't address the 100GB/s bandwidth deficit or the 4GB memory gap we suspect will separate Neo and Scorpio.

But there is an elephant in the room here: price. Microsoft's brief to AMD in producing this behemoth of a semi-custom design looks pretty obvious - to create the most powerful console possible. The GPU is more powerful and it's going to be larger, which means it's going to be more expensive to produce. Meanwhile, assuming we're right about the 4GB of additional memory, that's not going to be cheap either - when we attended AMD's Munich launch event for Fury X and the Radeon 300 series, we were told that adding an additional 4GB of GDDR5 to the R9 390/390X cost around them around $30 per unit. In short, we would not be surprised to see Scorpio cost significantly more than Neo - maybe even $100 more.

But there's certainly going to be pressure on Sony here - particularly as its next console is targeted at the hardcore player, who wants the very best. If Neo launches this year, it'll have a healthy headstart over Scorpio. However, if we're looking at a March 2017 launch, many may consider until Scorpio appears - especially as the new hardware stands to deliver a tangibly more impressive technological upgrade over the established PlayStation 4.
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Old 06-14-2016, 01:48 PM   #46
R3P0 R3P0 is offline
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Sony will match Scorpio they have to. MS upped the bar with this one.
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Old 06-14-2016, 02:51 PM   #47
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BIGGEST issue I have is I cant see this being a 400 dollar console. Even IF its based on the Radeon R9 480X that's still a 350-400 dollar price point for the card alone. 100 dollars for an 8 Core CPU. not including other things there's no way that this can come in under 599
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Old 06-14-2016, 03:18 PM   #48
Matt S Matt S is offline
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Originally Posted by Derb View Post
Correction, this is equivalent to a next-gen console.
Exactly what I was just thinking.
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Old 06-14-2016, 03:38 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by R3P0 View Post
Sony will match Scorpio they have to. MS upped the bar with this one.
I can't really imagine Sony losing much sleep over Scorpio.

If MS announced that it's coming out this holiday season, at an aggressive price point, with some solid exclusives backing it up, Sony might be shitting themselves. But as it is, it's too little, too late. If Sony gets the Neo out this year and it has UHD support, I think the Scorpio is pretty much a nonstarter.
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Old 06-14-2016, 05:46 PM   #50
Matt S Matt S is offline
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I seriously think we are looking at a new era of consoles. Guys like me don't want to have to upgrade my pc motherboard/card/etc every 2 years, but I have to sleep on the idea of upgrading to a new console every 2 or 4 years.

For example, if I could not play Witcher 3 on Scorpio, I'd be pissed
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Old 06-14-2016, 05:52 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3P0 View Post
BIGGEST issue I have is I cant see this being a 400 dollar console. Even IF its based on the Radeon R9 480X that's still a 350-400 dollar price point for the card alone. 100 dollars for an 8 Core CPU. not including other things there's no way that this can come in under 599
Yeah, it's going to be more expensive than people are thinking.
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Old 06-14-2016, 05:57 PM   #52
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Yeah, it's going to be more expensive than people are thinking.
$799, and the games $80.
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Old 06-14-2016, 06:00 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt S View Post
I seriously think we are looking at a new era of consoles. Guys like me don't want to have to upgrade my pc motherboard/card/etc every 2 years, but I have to sleep on the idea of upgrading to a new console every 2 or 4 years.

For example, if I could not play Witcher 3 on Scorpio, I'd be pissed
Well the plan is from now on that every game out now works on every console in the future and that games for Scorpio will work on Xbox One. So you should be set.
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Old 06-14-2016, 06:49 PM   #54
R3P0 R3P0 is offline
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$799, and the games $80.
Then why buy a Neo or Scorpio, At that end I might as well just game on my PC, steam games are 50-60 dollars and as long as I can do 4k on my monitor my hardware already 4k ready
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Old 06-14-2016, 07:17 PM   #55
dyne dyne is offline
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Originally Posted by R3P0 View Post
BIGGEST issue I have is I cant see this being a 400 dollar console. Even IF its based on the Radeon R9 480X that's still a 350-400 dollar price point for the card alone. 100 dollars for an 8 Core CPU. not including other things there's no way that this can come in under 599
So they've just said 2017 right? I would assume the last quarter of 2017. That gives pricing on components a year and a half to fall. See how Nvidia is charging a premium on the 1070/1080? Those cards can easily be $50-150 cheaper but they're the market leader so they dictate their pricing. These console companies get monster discounts from chip vendors when they sell a contract for millions of chips. Even moreso from AMD/ATI because they need the business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post
I can't really imagine Sony losing much sleep over Scorpio.

If MS announced that it's coming out this holiday season, at an aggressive price point, with some solid exclusives backing it up, Sony might be shitting themselves. But as it is, it's too little, too late. If Sony gets the Neo out this year and it has UHD support, I think the Scorpio is pretty much a nonstarter.
It's all in perspective. Sure SONY isn't worried now but this announcement just shit all over what they were going to try and pass to consumers as a console refresh. This undoubtedly changed some plans for SONY. That in the end costs them more money.
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Old 06-14-2016, 08:24 PM   #56
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I dunno but if the (couple posts up) post from Mavrick is correct about Sony already sending out dev kits and such, that pretty much says the NEO is set in stone. Don't think they can do a flip flop so to say and start from scratch basically.
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Old 06-14-2016, 10:59 PM   #57
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I dunno but if the (couple posts up) post from Mavrick is correct about Sony already sending out dev kits and such, that pretty much says the NEO is set in stone. Don't think they can do a flip flop so to say and start from scratch basically.
Better to scrap what they have now and take the loss than release an inferior product and lose market share.
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Old 06-15-2016, 11:53 AM   #58
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I hope it's not too pricey and it gives me enough time to save up and I've just bought a 4K TV so this console will go hand in hand with my TV.
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Old 06-15-2016, 02:18 PM   #59
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Fallout 4 or Skyrim remastered + mods? I'm salivating at the potential.
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Old 06-15-2016, 02:35 PM   #60
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Better to scrap what they have now and take the loss than release an inferior product and lose market share.
I was gonna say that as well but if they release it early in 2017, they can get a big head start on MS. If they scrap it now, the best they can probably do is go head to head with MS again in November 2017. Not sure how that would go.
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