The Anime Blu-ray Video Quality Thread

[zrdb]

Originally Posted by pikagreg

Update on Funimation streaming audio issues

Figured this could go here since it was about quality though it is for streaming and not DVD/BD's. A group of us on the r/animedubs reddit ended up giving feedback (complaining) about Funimation's changes to the audio when the site relaunched. We were finally able to come up with something we were happy with after many months of giving feedback/being able to help test and give feedback on new test encodes.

https://www.funimation.com/blog/2017...coding-update/

The damn broadcast dub's audio is like 60 kbs-that's absurdly low. Hell-a regular dvd is 3 times better at 192 kbs.

[zrdb]

Originally Posted by LexInHD

PCM is used on anime releases because it's completely free to use and because it is - by design - compatible with every HDTV, soundbar, DVD/Blu-Ray player or A/V setup that you can find these days. The fact that it provides great quality is just a happy coincidence.

The fact is why it's used a lot is because whoever does the authoring is just plain lazy-DTS Master Audio and Dolby True HD require a little bit of work. The end result should be identical after decoding-lossless audio.

[pikagreg]

Originally Posted by zrdb

The damn broadcast dub's audio is like 60 kbs-that's absurdly low. Hell-a regular dvd is 3 times better at 192 kbs.

Yeah we had a bunch of people in our Discord who stopped watching new Funi shows until they got things fixed. They were living off of old encodes lol

[Naiera]

Originally Posted by zrdb

The fact is why it's used a lot is because whoever does the authoring is just plain lazy-DTS Master Audio and Dolby True HD require a little bit of work.

Or, you know, that there are fees involved with using the brand codecs

[Ccharmanderk]

Gotta love it when people assume incompetence or laziness first and foremost instead of something far simpler that doesn't paint the targeted party in a negative light. Not saying laziness or incompetence is never the case, but at least exhaust the more reasonable options first.

[pikagreg]

Thanks Brady for these.

Actually, here's a gallery of screens from @discotekmedia's Kaiba Blu-ray in 1080p! Maybe this'll tide ya'll over.

http://imgur.com/a/XNhT3

https://twitter.com/ashuraou/status/874477237894094848

[mp3dom]

There are no extra fees when using TrueHD or dts-HD tracks, excluding the encoder license of course. Once you pay the software encoder, you're fine. The fee is already included on every bluray player sold. LPCM is basically a waste of space and bitrate. A 5.1 track at 24bit/48KHz takes a constant 6.9 Mbps of bitrate. Multiply this for 2 tracks (original and dubbed) and almost 14 Mbps are gone for audio. With dts-HD or TrueHD you can have the exactly same (lossless) quality using no more than 8-9 Mbps (peak) and 7 Mbps (average). This not only takes less space, but also allows to keep higher the max video bitrate.

[mp3dom]

Originally Posted by professorwho

Isn't the difference between the two that SR is RGB and is 10-Bit encoded? Isn't HDCAM-SR the main standard?

No, the difference is that HDCAM is an "upgraded" version of betacam for HD, it's recorded at 1440x1080 3:1:1 and 8bit but converted (while played) at 1920x1080 4:2:2. Its bitrate is approx 144 Mbps. (bitrate can appear high, but it's an old technology to store data. To give an idea, it's like a 100Mbps with a DivX codec for an HD source). Since 144 Mbps are not enough for full bandwith, the source is lowpass filtered.

HDCAM-SR is based on a new technology. It's 1920x1080 4:2:2 (or 4:4:4), component or RGB and 10bit. Bitrate is 440Mbps for standard and 880Mbps for HQ and is full bandwidth, of course.

HDCAM-SR is the standard, however, HDCAM is still used mainly to give materials to tv stations. Back to the tsunami/earthquak, SR tapes were almost unavailable because the SONY factory was damaged (while HDCAM is produced by different manufacturers like SONY, Maxell, Fujifilm, HDCAM-SR is only produced by SONY). So, a lot of titles in that period were recorded onto HDCAM.

[kevers7290]

Taking into account the faults present in both releases, what is the preferred version of Cowboy Bebop? US or UK release? I have the Funi LE release, I'm wondering if it would be worthwhile to replace it with the Anime Ltd release. Any input appreciated, thanks!

[omarchafa]

Originally Posted by kevers7290

Taking into account the faults present in both releases, what is the preferred version of Cowboy Bebop? US or UK release? I have the Funi LE release, I'm wondering if it would be worthwhile to replace it with the Anime Ltd release. Any input appreciated, thanks!

Based on the screenshots, the Funimation is better. The UK has a bit more detail, but has brightness issues and it's encoded at 1080i which never looks good in motion. It's not worth it unless you want to spend a pretty penny on the JP release and mux the English audio with it.

[Naiera]

Originally Posted by omarchafa

The UK has a bit more detail, but has brightness issues and it's encoded at 1080i which never looks good in motion.

1080i looks absolutely fine in motion, unless your de-interlacing is terrible. There's a reason why it's a good idea to buy an Oppo.

[NLScavenger]

Originally Posted by omarchafa

Based on the screenshots, the Funimation is better. The UK has a bit more detail, but has brightness issues and it's encoded at 1080i which never looks good in motion. It's not worth it unless you want to spend a pretty penny on the JP release and mux the English audio with it.

It's supposed to be 1080i because there are 30p and 60i parts and let's not forget the fake unnatural grain on the Funimation release.

Originally Posted by mp3dom

Long story short: can't be 1080p, unless you want dropped frames and de-interlaced frames (meaning lower quality).

Explanation: The majority of the show is true 1080p but some parts contains true 60i parts (meaning true 60 fields per seconds) and 30p parts (meaning true 30 frames/sec). For those parts, you need to deinterlace and drop or blend (= ghost). Not the ideal solution. This doesn't happens only at CG parts, but film parts too. Remember that this version comes from the "Remix" version which is an "edited" version of the original show. They've changed some part of the editing, making some scene shorter or longer (they also changed some music too). This was made digitally afterwards, so at 60i. For this reason the show can't be 100% 1080p. The US edition "forced" the 1080p output but infact they have dropped frames and interlaced parts played as progressive (you can clearly see the 'scanlines' in some part of the show).

Originally Posted by mp3dom

I know what IVTC is, the problem is another. As I said in the previous post, the majority of the show is 1080p (which means that 59.94i -> IVTC -> 23.98p can be done correctly). But there are true 60i parts (which should be deinterlaced and then blended or dropped if you want to force 23.98 again) which are not only in CG parts but also to film parts, due to the "Remix" editing made afterwards. FUNimation didn't deinterlaced *even* those 60i parts. This is the reason why you can see the "scanlines" (US version was encoded at 23.98p so you should *not* see any combing effect).
Reduced quality is due to the deinterlace you need to apply to a 60i portion (if you don't deinterlace, like the US edition, you'll see combing since your frame is displayed as progressive rather than interlaced).
Forcing Cowboy Bebop to 23.98p means 'altering' the director's vision. You're dropping existing frames or blending something not blended in original. This is the reason why Bandai Visual (the japanese distributor) but also UK (Anime Ltd), outputs the show at 59.94i.

Just to eliminate any doubt... US version, disc 3, episode 19 (00014.m2ts), around 18:20:
http://i.imgur.com/tZWSKRn.jpg
Clouds seems to me a bit "interlaced". Guess how well you can see this on tv? (Please note that it is not a wrong/missed IVTC metrics. If you change the metrics, then the swordfish will be interlaced rather than the clouds. You can't get both done correctly because this scene is a real 60i cut)

[Naiera]

I actually had the UK release, sold it and bought FUNi's release, but if I ever feel like watching it (I'm one of very few who don't really love it) again, I'll get the UK release once more

[SnowWarren]

Originally Posted by Naiera

I actually had the UK release, sold it and bought FUNi's release, but if I ever feel like watching it (I'm one of very few who don't really love it) again, I'll get the UK release once more

Andrew, from Anime Limited, has said they are interested in doing a Cowboy Bebop Ultimate Edition, but only if they can get the soundtrack and the movie to be part of it.

[Naiera]

I'm only interested in an UE if it has better video Otherwise, I'll go with the cheapest option.

[omarchafa]

I really need to get an OPPO then. I guess there can't be a proper release for Cowboy Bebop because of the source material being a different framerates?

[NLScavenger]

Originally Posted by omarchafa

I really need to get an OPPO then. I guess there can't be a proper release for Cowboy Bebop because of the source material being a different framerates?

The Italian release and the upcoming French/German releases:

Originally Posted by mp3dom

While the average bitrate is almost the same, the encode is different. Bandai made the encode at true 60i (meaning that all the 60i fields are effectively encoded into the stream) so the ~37 Mbps are spread across 30 interlaced frames. On the contrary, IT version is a 23.98 soft-pulldown encode like most of NTSC film DVDs out there. The 23.98 parts are effectively encoded at 23.98p (so the bitrate is spread across 24 progressive frames) but played back at 59.94i (frames are soft-'flagged' so a good bluray player or PS3/PS4 are able to outputs 60p without problems like old "progressive scan" players) while 60i/30p parts are flagged and encoded as 60i/30p. This is the approach I decided to use (the only thing left to try to improve the result even further). No frames were dropped. If the release at the end is better or worse than the japanese counterpart... I leave the judgment to the ones who bought the release.

[Gouki]

Originally Posted by omarchafa

I really need to get an OPPO then. I guess there can't be a proper release for Cowboy Bebop because of the source material being a different framerates?

I'm going to upgrade to the recently released UDP-203:

https://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-udp-203/

It got rid of all the apps and the ridiculous, giant Netflix and Vdu buttons, and has whatever Dolby Vision is.

I'll be keeping my 93 to install the magic chip to do other regions, unless someone makes one for the 203.

I love, love the fact that these players have separate, dedicated HDMI ports for video and sound. I performed the Pepsi Challenge and it does make a noticeable difference.

[StefaanD]

You're in luck because there's already a region free kit for the BDP-203

Still holding on to my region-free BDP-93 even though it doesn't get any firmware updates anymore. Heck i usually just rip the BD's and throw, gently mind you , them on my NAS and use Plex to play them back. I known loss of quality compared to the BDP-93 but more convenient.

Biggest problem i have with the BDP-93 is that on some BD's the subtitles disappear to fast, on some NIS America titles for example. Oppo was made aware of that, and confirmed the problem, but they never released a firmware update for the 93/95, but did for the 103/105

[Girls With Guns]

Yes, my Oppo 93 has the same subtitle issues with a lot of Sentai releases, too. Fortunately I have an HTPC with a BD drive in my home theater rack, connected to the projector through the AV processor, so I just need to play any of those affected titles though the PC instead.

I'd like to pick up a 203 sometime soon myself, especially if it resolves the subtitle problem. Any of you who has or is getting one will need to let me know if it is unaffected by the fast subtitle issue or not.